VS Battles Wiki Forum

Because The Great Reason isn’t alive. Why exactly do you think Stephen goes around as it’s Agent, leading Flynn?

Because The Great Reason can't interact with the world directly.

Exactly. So, why would a being, by Satan’s own admission state “chaos, order, neutrality… it matters not what state the universe is in”, care about what happens below it?

then why does Stephen lead Flynn? is it because it's what he wants?
if Stephen is the guider of Messiahs, why can't he...give them a Persona?

Because:

A. Stephen can’t do that.
B. I really don’t think you realize that not only from an identity standpoint does that make no sense, as Shin Megami Tensei & Persona have two different identities, if the name alone didn’t indicate that.

Stephen isn’t even necessarily a good person. He can watch you become the new Will of the Universe, and do nothing.

A. What specifically prevents him from in anyway giving the Messiahs Personae?
B. This is an out of universe reason, not an in universe one.

The Anarchy Ending is a good ending. The means of how you get there? Not so much.

The fact that he doesn’t have the power to do that.

I’m not sure how you think killing all your friends, and taking reign over the universe is a good ending, but, okay I guess.

Directly or indirectly? I can (semi) understand the former, but the latter would be pretty hard to believe considering he transcended space and time so he could go to anyone that COULD give someone a Persona, ask them "Hey, give this guy a Persona" and that's really it. It's in his best interest to.

It gets rid of any YHVH-like being from showing up, also my friends are annoying

Edit: about that, shouldn't he be able to recreate feats of lesser beings?

It doesn’t matter what’s in best interest. He hasn’t been shown to do that, and, as such, we don’t count him as being able to. They have the potential to exceed The Great Reason with their strength alone. That’s as blatant as it gets.

So Messiahs don't need Personae, then? Ok, another question. Is a Messiah needed to demonize YHVH or can you simply gather a large amount of normal people?

No. They never did. They’re strong enough as is. You can beat YHVH without Demonizing him.

Ok, question answered. Then, wouldn't it be a better idea for Stephen to get one of the Persona-users that stomp YHVH like Maya or Joker instead?

You’re genuinely just trying to argue a fanfiction at this point.

I don't see how "Stephen get guy that utterly stomps YHVH instead of getting a guy that is able to lose to him" is a fanfiction

Because that makes no sense. Stephen has no reason to. It wouldn’t even be Shin Megami Tensei at that point, what are you arguing anymore?

Because that makes no sense. Stephen has no reason to.

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It does because they are stronger, and he can access the Persona universe (seen in SMT IF) to get either of those people. He wants people to beat YHVH

It wouldn’t even be Shin Megami Tensei at that point

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This is an out of universe reason.

what are you arguing anymore?

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That since those two Persona users are stronger than YHVH to the point where they stomp him without effort, it would be a better idea to get either of them rather than Messiahs that actually have to put effort in their fight

Okay? He showed up, and did… nothing, and left. Stephen is a neutral force, he could’ve stopped YHVH at any moment, he simply protagonist out of sheer entertainment.

Your justification for “it’s an out of universe reason” are very fundamentally flawed, because the logic you present breaks immersion and is, bluntly, very foolish. Why did the Saiyan Saya happen if the Angels can see across universes? Why didn’t Hagaromo give Minato Six Paths chakra and prevent Minato from dying against the Nine Tails? You are arguing from not only possibility, but just genuine ignorance in the basis of story-telling and engagement. You’re planning to be a writer, so I can’t see how this concept eludes you. Why give any protagonist challenge, when Stephen could just give them a Persona, in-which he can’t. Why not bring in another unrelated character from a foreign universe to make it easier on the protagonist?

Raidou was knit nicely into III’s story because he was intertwined with Lucifer, and the latter was scheming and dishonest, offering a reason to betray him. What purpose does Stephen have, dragging an unsuspecting character from any random point in the story, telling them “fight YHVH”, do for the plot?

Okay? He showed up, and did… nothing, and left. Stephen is a neutral force, he could’ve stopped YHVH at any moment, he simply protagonist out of sheer entertainment.

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I was proving that he could travel to Persona.

Your justification for “it’s an out of universe reason” are very fundamentally flawed, because the logic you present breaks immersion and is, bluntly, very foolish. Why did the Saiyan Saya happen if the Angels can see across universes?

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because it didn't concern them, Also they didn't exist back when Toriyama was writing it

Why didn’t Hagaromo give Minato Six Paths chakra and prevent Minato from dying against the Nine Tails?

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If it's in his best interest to, then it's PIS (or he appeared later), if not then there is no problem. I didn't watch much of Naruto.

You are arguing from not only possibility, but just genuine ignorance in the basis of story-telling and engagement. You’re planning to be a writer, so I can’t see how this concept eludes you.

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Why give any protagonist challenge, when Stephen could just give them a Persona, in-which he can’t. Why not bring in another unrelated character from a foreign universe to make it easier on the protagonist?

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What purpose does Stephen have, dragging an unsuspecting character from any random point in the story, telling them “fight YHVH”, do for the plot?

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Because it's a major lore **** up.

It's like if NERV trained a guy in a tank to take down Angels (to the point where he could take one albeit with massive struggle), instead of using the preexisting Evangelion and their pilot to fight the Angels in a much more reliable and easier way.

It's like if, in Digimon, there was a character who knew about all universes, and the universe they were in was under threat by D-Reaper. Would they select a bunch of Digi-Destined/Tamers or just grab the Cyber Sleuth Cast (Assuming the game was released prior to this event) and tell them to stomp the D-Reaper?

I can understand Joker not being there since his game came after (I ****** up back there), but Maya or Tatsuya? Sure, Stephen bringing Persona characters to SMT makes for a bad story, but it would make more sense in-universe. And if the sensible in-universe answer makes a bad story, then EITHER the people at Atlus think that Persona-users are too weak to fight YHVH, OR they literally forgot that P2 exists.

OR they're stupid and don't know how to handle their own lore.

It took me a while to do this post because I was busy doing chores, so in case I made any spelling/grammar errors please point that out.

Okay. Feel free to make whatever downgrade you want, then. I really have no intention of arguing storytelling anymore.