VS Battles Wiki Forum

Yeah I think I'd object to that, acknowledging that depending on the end used it may not shake up scaling much.

I think the biggest objection I have is that it foundationally assumes this was done in one sudden blast (such that we would scale a full value to an attack) when no dialogue about it suggests anything like that. Nothing supports the idea that Astel just nuked the earth below the cities and dropped them in free fall. If we were to assume it was an attack, as opposed to some form of magic or dislocation effect or whatever else, I don't think we'd have a good reason to take it as one attack.

So I actually talked about this in the calc, but we know how Astel did it and what he used to do it. Meteorite of Astel says its a manifestation of the power he used to level the Eternal Cities, while the description of Noklateo in Nightreign (which I go over as being applicable to the base game event) says that the destruction was done in a single night. Considering the fact that the meteorite attack can be held and is only limited by the Tarnished's limited FP, I'd imagine Astel just used this spell to destroy and sink them.

That's not quite the same thing, though. Leveling a city isn't the same as sealing it away. I believe he destroyed the city, and if you calculated that, I'd be game to include it, but that's not really the same as burying it beneath the earth. You make that assumption and that's more or less your right to make but I don't agree it is fundamentally correct or enough to justify this, I think.

I also talk about this in the calc, but my point is that Astel's leveling (also called destroying and desolating) of the Eternal City and their banishment underground are the same event. What we know of their banishment is that it was for invoking the ire of the Greater Will, however, we never see any example of the Greater Will directly doing anything in the world of Elden Ring. It makes sense then that Astel, the creature that he sent to destroy the Eternal Cities would be the ones to send them underground. Thus, I don't see why these two events would be mutually exclusive when they are both done by the same character and are said to have happened at the same time.

None the less, I'm more so looking to see if the math is correct. The matter of scaling and determining which end would be used is likely to be saved for a CRT, since the debate goes beyond whether or not the feat is valid, and even goes into the extent of it.

Being the same event is not the same as being the same action. I did read your arguments in the calc, but they are just one interpretation. Nothing solidifies the basis of the calc itself, it's hauntingly similar to the old discussion about Astel we had (maybe not you, specifically, but the general Elden Ring people here) where people assumed he destroyed a moon or something to that effect by combining multiple elements of his backstory to reach one weird conclusion.

Astel did destroy/level/whatever one of the Eternal Cities. Astel did seal an Eternal City (at least one) on behalf of the Greater Will. But those two things were not necessarily one fluid movement (technically even the former might not be, in of itself, but I agree that your meteorite of Astel interpretation for leveling the city is basically reasonable, so).

As a CGM, I see the calc, and I see it isn't really solidly appropriate with provided evidence.