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I am working on a Monika update soon as I noticed that some stuff in her profile is just outdated as hell or straight-up wrong.

With that being said, idk. I don't see much about plot stuff, and his AE is meaningless against Monika's EE. How does his Nonduality work here, as I see this as the only thing that can potentially screw her up entirely.

He doesn't have plot stuff, and his Non-Duality is as the description says, he becomes True Nothingness, which exists in 6 states of logical shit or whatever it is that Non-Duality works with. Oh and NEP2.

Though, I don't think that's really what matters. Wang Wei has a passive soul (Concept Type 3)/Mind shenanigans, as well as death inducement, and body shenanigans. Though even ignoring that and assuming that the aura isn't passive, he has a bunch of Thought-Based shenanigans, as well as Fate stuff erasure (that is above history erasure) that is above other concepts/info type 2, and is layered to hell and back. Oh and... Infinite reaction speed... and amp to infinite speed...

PS. I'm mostly asking since I think Monika could take quite a high spot in the strongest 4-D list, but I'm not that sure if she can take over Wang Wei's spot.

Monika is pretty much immune to all of this given that her NEP state covers basically almost all of this, and if something happens to her she can just restore herself through her character file, given that's something she did try to do when experiencing being deleted only to discover that her file is just gone.

Also I don't think Fate works, given that in DDLC the script already covers everything, from past to the future, in a metafictional way, and Monika is resistant to that so I don't think the fate hax can really help tbf.

Tbf, the fate stuff affects Concept (Type 1) and all that stuff, with some of his stuff being type 1 concepts as well. Not to mention, characters who had part of their history/timeline erased, were still within River of Fate (like a timeline, but... for fate), with stuff like Time-Space being mere subsets of Fate. Oh, and the number of layers are... 70+

Though, her NEP is just Nature Type 1, no? Characters In-verse can casually destroy actual voids, so I think he should comfortably affect her. Though idk about the fundamental aspects, but just straight up physical stuff.

Additionally, the infinite reaction speed kinda just gives Wang Wei time to do whatever he wants, and if he senses he's in danger, he can also just absorb his incarnation in order to be infinite in terms of speed.

Also, I don't really see any counter to stuff like, sealing (which has many types), conceptual death/age manipulation, time shenanigans, etc...

Do you want me to make a match, or are you chill with just discussing it here?

I'd hold on for both as Monika is getting through some updates soon-ish, we can keep discussing here after these are done.

Very well, I'll wait. Though I do have a question if you don't mind me asking, since you made a thread about History as a fundamental aspect.

Do you have any clue on how we treat Fate and Plot, if they are similar? For example, would someone that, say, resists plot manipulation, with said plot manipulation being similar to the history of the world (contains everything), resist Fate Manipulation that acts similarly (ie, is similar to history or is above it)? I do know the thread was rejected, but I want to know how these two interact.

Plot is generally superior as it does everything Fate does but mixing also Reality Warping and that metafictional touch that Fate lacks.

Also because Fate hax can alter only the future, but Plot hax affects also the past just to arbitrairly put whatever the user wants, something Fate is far more limited in general.

I meant in a way that Fate does similar stuff to Plot, as in a Fate Manipulation that can affect the past as well, and does control everything in the verse (with the only thing lacking is Metafictional stuff, though if said metafictional stuff isn't Higher-D or 1-A, I'm not sure how good it is).

Mostly asking because of Wang Wei. The Fate in that verse controls everything (Explicit statement, and its most notable trait), including Concepts and Info2, with characters being able to freely manipulate whatever they want (if they want a person to die, they just die, even without a reason like a heart attack), with everything being a part of it (matter, space, time, etc...), and stuff like history being below it.

Obviously, in-general, Plot is superior as fate in most verses are just for the future stuff, but I'm asking for verses where Fate is much more fundamental.

Adding this because I forgot to mention.

Everything a character does within a setting, even stuff like "changing their own fate" (literally or not does not really matter) is still within the already decided plot, as the plot is meant as the story that is already written by out of universe factors.

Meaning that while Fate can still be seen as a "force" that is still within the setting of the story, Plot is the story itself.

but I'm asking for verses where Fate is much more fundamental.

Click to expand...

Plot would still be above as that stuff is still beneath the story, as I said.

Rip, I guess that's it then. Thanks!

Here we go

Commented.

U've fought well, btw.

For the Wang Wei fight... huh... idk lol.

Nice debate as well. It was rather civil and there was no toxicity or whatever, liked it quite a bit.

Anyways, for Wang Wei, I'm not sure either. We could make a match, if you want to put Monika equal to Wang Wei or above him (If you even care about that 4-D thread).

I can give you the thread if you want.