VS Battles Wiki Forum

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Yes, it's time skip. Vados literally says he's continually using it on Jiren. I actually put this clip in the thread as well and you didn't really seem to recognise it other than implying you disagreed.

It's at 4:58 and "frozen" likely means "frozen in place." The fact that Hit's time skip doesn't freeze him in the pocket dimension means it shouldn't freeze Jiren in time because it's just the same technique used continually to prevent him from moving. Notice even before Jiren moves out of the cage, he's still shaking, something that Hit doesn't comment on.

I know, you said Jiren was frozen in time. My point was that he wasn't and that's never how the time skip works. Jiren was in a pocket dimension and needed physical strength that transcends time (something Vados, Shin and Hit's history of getting his technique overpowered by strength support).

The Dragon Ball wiki isn't reliable.

It's fine.



No, at all, she means that he used time-skip continually to achieve or use the time cage, time-skip is the conditions to use the cage of time (that is why Hitt says, he needed one more blow to bind him there, which would heavily imply spamming time-skip was needed since he never actually hit or damaged jiren before the intangible atk that hit used on him), it was questioned by shin and the other why he kept using time-skip (even jiren himself questioned why he kept spamming time-skip). So he's obviously trapped in time like your point doesn't make sense, even if he was just him in a dimension, it would still be a dimension where jiren is trapped in time.

Hit says , he's going to bind him in a cage of time, and Champa says, to keep him frozen there. , meaning keep in frozen in the cage of time. Hit freeze your opponent in a time.
The cage thing doesn't matter, Hit is still trying to freeze him in time. Time skip and time cage are not the same, it's stated he traps people in a cage of time and bind them . Now for the physical strength it's only half true, he needed to also move, and movement/speed is the distance over a period of time. Also, you could argue that jiren is above the concept of time since it's stated he transcended time itself, meaning on a conceptual level (but I won't go there and is not that relevant, but it could put him much higher than that).

For the overpowering, you could argue, Hit is manipulating time on a conceptual level, which would explain why they say that jiren transcended time itself, which is a precise statement (In other statements of this category in other fictions, they do not always say itself, they just say transcended time or time-space which is vague, so the ITSELF part, is important here).

So there are fewer assumptions and more evidence on my side to prove that it's frozen in time (the wiki specify which version, they say in the manga, amine, games, etc, so they are reliable ..., and they support my point).


Have a good rest of the day.

Vados never said that, only that spamming time-skip was the attack and his trump card, indicating that the cage itself is time-skip. The episode summary even said he paralysed (note that they don't say he froze Jiren in time, just paralysed) Jiren by evolving time-skip, something he's done to a lesser extent in the past.

• Universe 6's Hit and Universe 11's Jiren finally clash. Though Hit successfully paralyzes Jiren by evolving Time-Skip, Jiren breaks through this with stupendous power. He then concentrates a ki blast in his hand to attack Hit with.

  Click to expand...

Hit never said he needs "one more blow" to bind him in the cage, only the one blow that he struck Jiren with. For reference, Hit was struggling to actually attack Jiren in this scene and had to memorise his timing, which enabled Hit to actually strike him. I really think you need to rewatch Episode 111.

Time-skip is literally time stored from the universe, so he'd still be trapped in a cage of time.

Again, Champa could (and 100% does) mean frozen in place. They never claim he's suspended in time, just bound in a cage without being able to move. The fact that he was still shaking and struggling without the characters commenting on it indicates that he was just paralysed.

He's not frozen, he's moving inside skipped time. Distance is a non-factor.

Your points are only based assumptions, and require the bending of facts to even make them seem like they could be true. Nobody ever said it had anything to do with speed or that he was freezing Jiren in time, and the wiki (that gives zero sources on this page) doesn't somehow prove your point.

Evolving the time-skip is the time-cage, doesn't mean it only functions like time-skip that is headcanon. And paralyse would result in the same results, if he's paralyzed, he cannot move, dust frozen or paralyze/frozen in time.

I do not need to rewatch it, hit said he needed one more blow to bind in the cage of time, and it was questioned why he kept using time-skip when it's useless, this means that successful usage of time-skip+the the last hit is the trigger of the time cage. That is the headcanon to say frozen in place when Hit said he will bind him in the cage of time. Going by the definition of what "CAGE OF TIME" would mean is, a cage made of time, (cage of time, blade of ice, blade of fire, blade of metal) , so he's still trapped/frozen/paralyze in a cage made of time.

The paralysis could also mean paralyze in time, it's not just a cage, it's a cage of time literally, it's not just a simple cage, and is supported by shin and Vados statement of him transcending the concept of time itself, which if it was just a cage would be illogical. Your only proof is that hit-evolved time-skip, but that doesn't change the fact that they do not work the same way necessary (We could still see Jiren, unlike when HIt used time-skip, he cross dimensions we cannot see him since he goes into a parallel world, which proves it isn't like time-skip, also jiren could shatter HIT's parallel world if it was just basic time-skip since he,s stronger and far suppressed here ) and it's not like jiren was put into a parallel world or something, he was still there and visible.


It would have to do with both speed and strength, you realize he was doing a movement ? a distance in a certain amount of time will give you speed, also no one said that Jiren wasn't frozen in time, you're just assuming that it isn't, ( The evidence is still there, in their wiki, just because they do not cite in some of their pages doesn't make it wrong, in this wiki, there is sometimes abilities of characters that are stated to be, without actually showing the scan or the page of that ), it proves my points, there are still fewer assumptions on my side dude. It will turn ad nauseam at this point.

Evolving time-skip could also be the ability to use it continuously, something he's never done until this point. The fact that Vados says it's time-skip means the technique is time-skip and there's no escaping this fact.

For someone who doesn't need to rewatch the episode, you're ignoring the context quite blatantly. Hit was using time-skip on himself, the time cage is a version of it that's used on Jiren in quick succession. The two are completely different and Vados never mentions any "activation", just that it's his trump card. Hit's parallel worlds are stored time, so trapping him in a cage of time is entirely applicable to the concept of a "cage of time". "Binding" itself also doesn't suggest that Jiren is frozen in time, the definition even says "tie or fasten (something) tightly together", supporting my point definition-wise.

The paralysis could also be trapping his movement, which was the only thing we saw it do. It's not illogical, Jiren can still be considered to "transcend time" without breaking out of frozen time, the fact that they didn't say this earlier while he was moving actually makes my position more logical. Your only proof is based on half-statements that you interpret with meanings that the show isn't implying. As I said before, they're different applications; Hit is actually spamming the technique on Jiren himself, not using it to skip time.

Hit mentions himself that the technique was wearing off and he couldn't hold him there forever, then wasn't in the least bit surprised when he started moving. The characters never say he was frozen in time, though, just "frozen". You and the wiki are saying this like it's fact, despite there being absolutely no evidence or citations. There's way more assumptions on your side. I'll give a list of your assumptions.

• The Cage of Time isn't time-skip, it only uses that technique as an activation, something that Vados never says.
• The Cage froze Jiren in time, meaning he has infinite speed.
• Time-skip is always useless against Jiren because it was before, despite the two techniques being different applications of it according to Vados.
• Frozen and paralysed = frozen in time.
• The Dragon Ball wiki is 100% correct, despite the page having literally no citations.

Here's mine.

• Hit has evolved his time-skip to trap opponents by projecting a pocket dimension around them continuously, something that Vados supports.
• The DB wiki's page is unreliable because it has no citations.
• Frozen/paralysed doesn't mean frozen in time.

That is not how it works just because she says he used time-skip continually doesn't mean the time cage is the same thing as time-skip.

That's your assumption that the cage of time is equal to the time-skip, limiting someone's movement vs moving in a parallel world.

I never said Vados says activation, I just said that using time-skip multiple times + the last hit of hit's atk was the trigger of the time-cage.

The cage is made of time, you could the cage is the other dimension, but there he still bind is an opponent in the cage containing time (since it isn't time stop), as the name suggests it, and yes binding suggests that he's frozen at least in that cage of time, saying otherwise is headcanon.

Even if you said he's skipping Jiren's time, the person can still move just like hit did, since he uses time-skip on himself, and with the time cage, he uses time to trap his opponent's movements.


BIND:" to confine, restrain, or restrict as if with bonds", your point isn't supported, bind in this cage means restraining, you realize he was trying to hold him in place for the remaining of the tournament (failed)? you literally debunked your argument.

Yes trapped the movement of his opponent in time, if Jiren doesn't break in frozen time then he wouldn't be considered transcending time, them saying it not earlier doesn't matter, literally it's not relevant. I'm not using half-statement you are, most of your claims are assumptions while they are less on my side.

Can you prove that what they say is wrong? just because they aren't citations ? that doesn't mean it's "UNRELIABLE" that's illogical, in this wiki, there are still statements of character ability that are missing scans or the page of that statement does that mean vs wiki is unreliable and wrong automatically? of course not.


-Just because it's an evolved time-skip doesn't mean it works the same way.
- I have more evidence on my side.
-The time cage traps someones there sure, but it isn't like time-skip since when hit uses time-skip and goes in his parallel word you cannot see him (proved when Goku destroyed hit's parallel word) but for Jiren we still see him in the real world, proving it doesn't necessarily word like time-skip.
-Cage of time, going by its definitions, means a cage made of time that he attached to Jiren, to bind him there, which again vastly supports my point.
-Champa says to keep him frozen.
-Both statements of shin and Vados supporting Jiren being trapped in a cage made of time.
-Jiren already shattered hit's parallel world just by punching it, if it was just time-skip Jiren would do the same thing.
- Last proof, even vs wiki page of hit says that he's suspending his opponent in time.

She makes no distinction between the two. You're making this distinction.

Because that's the only thing it's said to be. Your points are unproven.

You did and with zero proof.

• she means that he used time-skip continually to achieve or use the time cage.

His pocket dimensions are time. That's my point.

Except they're trapped in the pocket dimension and it's being continually projected to seal them. Vados says this.

How did I debunk my own argument? That's such a non-sequitur.

It's said his power transcends time. By half-statements, I'm saying you're adding context to these statements that aren't even suggested.

Can you actually prove your points? You're the one who needs to give proof in this situations because you're the one making the claim that the technique A) isn't time-skip (something that's never stated), and B) frozen means frozen in time.

It is unreliable, though. That's a perfectly logical thing to say. I never claimed everything the wiki said was reliable.

-It's the same technique but evolved. You need to prove it's functionally different.
-Your evidence is literally made up. Your lack of scans and actual quotes proves the evidence isn't on your side and you need to create situations, like the word freeze meaning time is frozen.
-The time-skip is used on Jiren to trap him and wouldn't last extremely long. It's not the same application as a typical time-skip.
-Frozen doesn't mean frozen in time.
-Which his pocket dimensions are.
-It was continuously being used on Jiren to bind him.
-That's hardly proof and should be changed. It's also likely information from the DB wiki, as are many of those techniques.

Now, I'm done talking with you and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop responding on this message wall.

Sorry for being rude.

It was never said to be, again you failed to prove that.

It isn't failed, we know that it was statement multiples times why did he use time-skip on jiren multiple times when it didn't work, and he never hit jiren until the last moment and says that with this hit it will work (shin , champa , jiren , but you decided to ignore those statements)
If his pocket dimensions are time, you just debunked yourself.
Vados never says that.

"the definition even says "tie or fasten (something) tightly together", supporting my point definition-wise." The definition of the cage of time is a cage made of time and is showed and stated that he was stopping, making jiren frozen in that time cage, which debunks your claim.


"It's said his power transcends time. By half-statements, I'm saying you're adding context to these statements that aren't even suggested."
That doesn't mean it's only power and I just proved to you that it,s both a power and speed feat, I'm not adding anything, those statements prove my point.

No, you claim that the wiki is unreliable, can you move that the information given for hit's ability is wrong? I already proved my points , it's only stated to be an evolved version of the said ability which doesn't mean they work the same way as I proved how normal time-skip works and is different than how the time-cage works.
It's called the cage of time, meaning the cage itself is made of time very simple to understand, since it's stated that he will bind him by hit himself and Champa literally stating to keep him frozen, proves my point, you are just assuming it's exactly like time-skip which was never stated to be.

"It is unreliable, though. That's a perfectly logical thing to say. I never claimed everything the wiki said was reliable."
Prove that it is, why is the information there somehow wrong, it's only logical if you can actually prove with evidence why just not citing it makes it somehow wrong and not reliable, even if you aren't claiming that, it doesn't mean that the wiki is somehow wrong.

Absolute proof is that when you see jiren in that time-cage, you can see rocks that are suspended in air and aren't falling outside of the stage, even when they were outside of the stage itself, so he's skipping jiren's time in the cage of time, and we know that time skip doesn't actually stop time but works in a similar way and doesn't stop the user or his opponent's movement, which would then prove that it's more so hit using stored time for the time-skip to stop is opponents movement in time because how else it would be, time-skip doesn't stop your movement, he would have to use the stored time to bind jiren.

- I have more evidence than you do.
-The name of the technique is described as being a cage made of time, and hit is stated by Champa to keep him frozen and hit himself said it will bind jiren there.
-It doesn't work the same , why do you say it's the same as time-skip? you said that Vados doesn't make "a distinction" but you admitted that it, is not a typical time-skip which disproves that's somehow the same technique, being an evolve version doesn't make it the same technique and was never stated to be.

• Being trapped in a cage made of time and stated to be bind in there proves it's freezing in time.
• Both shin's and vados statement supports my point, not yours, they say he transcends time itself, and the cage is made of time and he was stated by Champa to keep freezing him there.
• Again, more proof on my side, just stop.

It's fine if you are done, after this reply, I will not reply and I guess so do you.

She calls that attack his trump card, which is continuously reiterated throughout the episode. Therefore, it's the same attack.

He used a different version of it on Jiren, rather than himself, which is why he needed that one punch. It wasn't the last punch. Idk how this is hard to understand, especially since the characters say he has power that transcends time after he broke the cage, not when he was moving.

His pocket dimensions are stored time. I haven't debunked myself, this seems more like an attempt to give yourself credibility.

Tighten or fasten around Jiren, actually proving my point. If he was bound, why would he be totally frozen in time and not constrained?

You haven't proven it's speed. You've said it's speed and expected me to believe this argument without proof. How does distance make this a speed feat? Explain it properly instead of just saying "movement/speed is the distance over a period of time."

I'm literally doing that while arguing with you. Regardless, the wiki is unbacked and everyone on this wiki would agree.

Yes, so is Hit's time-skip.

Again, frozen has more meanings than frozen in time in this context. The fact that Jiren was still shaking and struggling while he was doing this supports my point.

If a tertiary source like a wiki or article doesn't have citations, then it's automatically unreliable. It doesn't support your point.

Both Jiren and the rocks weren't moving. It's called a freeze-frame.

-You have speculation and false claims.
-They never say anything that supports your claims. This is why I'm sick of arguing with you. You'll take anything and twist it to the point where it somehow supports your opinion.
-You stop. There's literally just speculation on your side. You even try to claim that Vados means something else even though she doesn't.

I'm replying now. I decided to because these points are repetitive and annoying. Stop replying from this point onwards or I'm deleting the thread.