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Natsuki Subaru (& Beatrice) VS Fumihiko Takaba (Re: Zero VS Jujutsu Kaisen) (0-2-0)

Pretty difficult matchup to analyze. This is a far harder opponent than Gojo for Subaru, though.

Takaba's technique actively prevents Subaru from dying, so he effectively nullifies RBD. And on top of that Takaba himself doesn't kill, preferring to deal with his opponents by incapacitating them or simply stopping them from fighting. Subaru's weakness.

Subaru would most likely need to use social influencing in the same manner as Kenjaku in order to win. But it's possible Takaba simply incaps him before that can occur.
 
what happens if Subaru tries to bite down on his poison pill btw, does he have feats of stopping people from committing suicide without his knowledge?
 
I mean, he would probably just heal Subaru if he saw him dying or try and warp reality in some way to make him survive. Plus it is literally law hax that Subaru can't die.

Also, why would Subaru kill himself ?

RBD is almost useless anyway. Takaba's ability isn't something that he can really get around with RBD. At best it would allow him to restart with more information and maybe social influence him a bit better as a result.
 
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@Phoenks If you’re doing speed equalized in order to prevent Sub Rel speed from perception blitzing Takaba from hell and back, make it so that the match is Subaru and Beatrice Vs Takaba and not Beatrice as an equipment or make it Beatrice Vs Takaba with Subaru as her equipment.
 
what happens if Subaru tries to bite down on his poison pill btw, does he have feats of stopping people from committing suicide without his knowledge?
He saved Angel without his knowledge, its like anyone nearby Takaba can't really die because he doesn't find Death funny

Takaba probably stomps by Incapping Subaru with Comedian
 
He saved Angel without his knowledge, its like anyone nearby Takaba can't really die because he doesn't find Death funny

Takaba probably stomps by Incapping Subaru with Comedian
Takaba does not stomp as he tends to prolonge his battles a lot, so at the very least there's definitely a non-zero chance that Subaru in some cases can start using his social influencing. Takaba does not immediately start with instant subjective reality incap.

I don't think it would take very long for Subaru to deduce his power, either. It's pretty obvious, actually. Compared to someone like Regulus.
 
Alright, now what about if Subaru uses al shamak with his 1 million times higher perception speed. His invulnerability doesn't appear to have a counter to that
 
Takaba isn’t just invulnerable, attacks also simply don’t actually affect him. He basically nulls them with RW and Causality Manipulation
 
Takaba isn’t just invulnerable, attacks also simply don’t actually affect him. He basically nulls them with RW and Causality Manipulation
Al Shamak isn't a damaging attack; it forcibly BFRs the target to another dimension. I don't see any evidence that he possesses the required range or feats needed to deal with that.
 
Al Shamak isn't a damaging attack; it forcibly BFRs the target to another dimension. I don't see any evidence that he possesses the required range or feats needed to deal with that.
He nullifies abilities by proactively making them not work even though they should, so unless Subaru has resistance to Reality Warping Causality and stuff he isn’t getting through Comedian’s Invincibility
 
He nullifies abilities by proactively making them not work even though they should, so unless Subaru has resistance to Reality Warping Causality and stuff he isn’t getting through Comedian’s Invincibility
Magic is law manipulation, The only law that i see on his profile is death being disallowed; Magic should also work on that since it forcefully overwrites laws. There is also no Causality Manipulation on his profile. EMM + Al Shamak would work since he exits the same reality as Takaba and becomes unaffected from Comedian.

 
He nullifies abilities by proactively making them not work even though they should, so unless Subaru has resistance to Reality Warping Causality and stuff he isn’t getting through Comedian’s Invincibility
Subaru is indeed resistance to causality manipulation but it was a very specific instance where a character/witch beast rewrote reality to erase a character from their existence but he still remembered them.
 
Magic is law manipulation, The only law that i see on his profile is death being disallowed; Magic should also work on that since it forcefully overwrites laws. There is also no Causality Manipulation on his profile. EMM + Al Shamak would work since he exits the same reality as Takaba and becomes unaffected from Comedian.
the two abilities are baseline law manipulation so neither is gonna overpower the other.

but his subjective reality is a passive/thought-based technique so it is quite difficult to bypass.
 
It was mentioned that someone could bfr Takaba by sending him to another dimension, but in the fight he literally jumps between dimensions with Comedian 😭

They got to a place with a starry sky, then suddenly they're at a hospital, then they're suddenly doing a stand-comedy somewhere, and then they're back to the field where the battle was first taking place when it ended. I don't think dimensional bfr is a problem for Comedian.
 
It was mentioned that someone could bfr Takaba by sending him to another dimension, but in the fight he literally jumps between dimensions with Comedian 😭

They got to a place with a starry sky, then suddenly they're at a hospital, then they're suddenly doing a stand-comedy somewhere, and then they're back to the field where the battle was first taking place when it ended. I don't think dimensional bfr is a problem for Comedian.
thats teleportation, not dimensional travel. You did need proof that he could travel interdimensionally
 
thats teleportation, not dimensional travel. You did need proof that he could travel interdimensionally
He wasn't traveling to real places. He just creates scenarios they appear in. That's why they appear in a comedy act together in a venue full of fans out of nowhere and why they appeared in a world with a lake full of fanta.
 
so its just environment manipulation then
wtf is environment manip 😭

That ain't even a power dawg.

Anyways Kenjaku said anything he imagines manifests into existence, and that it even incorporates Kenny's own thoughts into his comedy. Chances are he was creating a dimension (similar to domain expansion) filled with the stuff he imagined (and stuff within Kenny's psyche).

This is assuming he gets sent to another dimension since his technique would also be able to prevent it from even activating against him.
 
wtf is environment manip 😭

That ain't even a power dawg.

Anyways Kenjaku said anything he imagines manifests into existence, and that it even incorporates Kenny's own thoughts into his comedy. Chances are he was creating a dimension (similar to domain expansion) filled with the stuff he imagined (and stuff within Kenny's psyche).
making up abilities on the fly 🗣️ 🔥

yeah i dont think you can just give him that based on a speculative ability that isnt even accepted on the page nor has been shown. That would be quite blatantly an NLF

This is assuming he gets sent to another dimension since his technique would also be able to prevent it from even activating against him.
the two abilities are baseline law manipulation so neither is gonna overpower the other.

but his subjective reality is a passive/thought-based technique so it is quite difficult to bypass.
That is the thing though, by that same logic magic shouldn't be stopped from working either as it works by clashing with existing laws to overwrite them. Takaba's law hax doesn't have a showcase of stopping someone else from overwriting his laws especially when its done faster than he can process it

I did say, based on this that al shamak would work
 
Wait Betty is not a human, so Takaba just murders her lol. Can Subaru SI his way for a wincon like Kenjaku? I don’t think he is good enough of a comedian but its possible.
 
making up abilities on the fly 🗣️ 🔥

yeah i dont think you can just give him that based on a speculative ability that isnt even accepted on the page nor has been shown. That would be quite blatantly an NLF
That's not what a NLF is at all (That said NLF isn't even an actual fallacy, but even discarding that you used it wrong).
That is the thing though, by that same logic magic shouldn't be stopped from working either as it works by clashing with existing laws to overwrite them. Takaba's law hax doesn't have a showcase of stopping someone else from overwriting his laws especially when its done faster than he can process it
It's a passive ability, not an active one (He doesn't even know he has the technique, let alone that he's using it). Passive abilities are only assumed to be surpassed in "speed" by Immeasurable characters/abilities. Not to mention the source you gave in contention to Takaba's ability specifies it overrides natural laws, not external/unnatural laws. Takaba's technique explicitly negates other abilities and affects of said abilities so them being able to activate that win-con is unlikely.
 
That's not what a NLF is at all (That said NLF isn't even an actual fallacy, but even discarding that you used it wrong).

It's a passive ability, not an active one (He doesn't even know he has the technique, let alone that he's using it). Passive abilities are only assumed to be surpassed in "speed" by Immeasurable characters/abilities.
Nobody mentioned speed, speed is irrelevant in this context. All laws are omnipresent and overwriting them in the first place means you can deal with that.
Not to mention the source you gave in contention to Takaba's ability specifies it overrides natural laws, not external/unnatural laws.
That's not how that works lol, you need proof for a layer of law hax for it to be unchangeable

Takaba's technique explicitly negates other abilities and affects of said abilities so them being able to activate that win-con is unlikely.
This is simply not true.

Firstly, this is wrongly indexed. It is not power nullification. Attack reflection already covers redirecting attacks which can damage you, that is the entire point of attack reflection.
This also already comes under this:
Listing it like this is redundant

Secondly, none of this covers Al Shamak. Abilities still worked on him its just that he wasn't damaged nor did anybody die. A Law hax that can override laws will be capable of dealing with him just fine especially when it isnt trying to hurt him or kill him
 
That's not how that works lol, you need proof for a layer of law hax for it to be unchangeable
Yes it is? Your scan claims (and in bold at that) it overrides natural laws. Nothing about unnatural laws imposed by others. The burden of proof is on you to prove your claim that their abilities can do something that contradicts its own accepted description, not me.

Not to mention I think making JJK matches all together is a little silly since the verse is severely outdated, and had people had patience we'd already have stuff like Takaba being able to mess with the fundamental principle of others abilities.
Nobody mentioned speed, speed is irrelevant in this context. All laws are omnipresent and overwriting them in the first place means you can deal with that.
Except you forgot to disclose the part where on is an active ability that requires conscious thought to trigger and thus can be foiled in advance whereas the other is always in effect.
This is simply not true.

Firstly, this is wrongly indexed. It is not power nullification. Attack reflection already covers redirecting attacks which can damage you, that is the entire point of attack reflection.
Did you ignore half the description? Despite Hazenoki being able to blow up his body parts on command, he was incapable of doing so when Takaba redirected his eyeball until it struck himself. Don't ignore half the description to fit your premise.
Listing it like this is redundant
No, because that is an entirely separate byproduct of his ability. One prevented a Sorcerer from being able to use their ability, the other erases or negates any damage he receives. These two should not be conflated with one another whatsoever because they are fundamentally different, and attempting to do so seems like either a misunderstanding or bad faith in an attempt to salvage your previous contention. I assume the former since I give people the benefit of the doubt and most of JJKs profiles are pretty shitty, but the distinction between the two is quite clear imo.
Secondly, none of this covers Al Shamak. Abilities still worked on him its just that he wasn't damaged nor did anybody die. A Law hax that can override laws will be capable of dealing with him just fine especially when it isnt trying to hurt him or kill him
Or you know, we can choose not to ignore Takaba also making peoples own abilities backfire on themselves while attempting to use them on him when he finds it funny, and acknowledge that.

Unironically if he wanted he could have Al Shamak backfire and activate against themselves rather than on him. The only time he's ever hit by attacks is when he finds it funny, and that's usually blunt force attacks. Not attacks that'll remove him from the battlefield.

It's also a shame that again, profiles are heavily outdated because if it weren't, we'd see that Takaba actually does have interdimensional range. So even being sent away would not be a problem for him (And that's already being generous when considering Kenny described Takaba's technique as putting him in "Scenarios" that are like "simulations" for them supported by the change of locations, changes in the environment, and random people with knowledge on them suggesting him "manifesting" (as described by Kenny again) pocket dimensions similar to a domain/barriers (which are also established to be able to create worlds/simulations inside them and even have the capacity to enforce laws themselves) where all of this occurs).

If it were up to me, I'd close the match until the verse is revised. But sadly that's not up to me.
Has Takaba ever shown to have dealt with law based abilities before?
It can negate law based abilities (Such as ones from Kenjaku's Cursed Spirits and Domain rules), yes. Based on descriptions it can work on really anything in-verse (Granted the verse is in, again, poor condition).
 
The idea was that this would be a social influencing battle, as Subaru would need to fight Comedian as Kenjaku did in order to defeat Takaba.

Even in the current state of the profiles, I don't really think Subaru's magic can affect Takaba at all. The law manipulation of magic in re zero is incredibly generic stuff. Just overwriting natural laws (like physics). It's not even layered, so you cannot say that it just bypasses Takaba's passive.
 
Voting Takaba, he just kills Beatrice which everyone seems to have forgotten lol. Then Subaru has a shot to win with SI but I think Takaba wins more often
 
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