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Problem with a Bleach calc (I got one more in me)

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Mommyleona

Mommyleona

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This is about Uryu's reaction?/perception? calc
I'm unsure if it can be considered valid to begin with, since Ishida isn't seeing those cycles, he's just able to roughly sense them, therefore I think it shouldn't be considered a speed feat for Uryu at all
But in case it's still considered some sort of speed, I propose this calc as a replacement, due to the old calc for some reason assuming the Reishi is moving alongside the whole circumference of the sword, which is not the case as we can clearly see in the anime (shown and explained in the blog)
For the current calc to work, the sword would have to move like a drill, rotating, which again isn't what's happening

Agree with replacement: @M3X_2.0, @ElJoaki5
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
Mommyleona said:
This is about Uryu's reaction?/perception? calc
I'm unsure if it can be considered valid to begin with, since Ishida isn't seeing those cycles, he's just able to roughly sense them, therefore I think it shouldn't be considered a speed feat for Uryu at all
But in case it's still considered some sort of speed, I propose this calc as a replacement, due to the old calc for some reason assuming the Reishi is moving alongside the whole circumference of the sword, which is not the case as we can clearly see in the anime (shown and explained in the blog)
Click to expand...
It's not an assumption made "for some reason", it's literally stated to move like a chainsaw. Heck, your very blog has the statement that it works like a chainsaw in the anime scene. Do you know how a chainsaw works??

Also, "roughly" has no place here at all, he's able to accurately perceive the reishi moving. He also perceive Cirruci's reishi vibrating too.

And all we see in the anime is the reishi going through several repeating positions around the blade. Sorry, but you are basically just making up stuff.

Massive disagree
 
M3X_2.0 said:
With what? The calc is wrong.
Click to expand...
With the arguments in the OP. Idk what calc you're saying is wrong(the current one or the one proposed by the OP), but OP's arguments are straight up wrong, so I simply say it
 
ItsMeat said:
With the arguments in the OP. Idk what calc you're saying is wrong(the current one or the one proposed by the OP), but OP's arguments are straight up wrong, so I simply say it
Click to expand...
The current one. You said it already, it's like a chainsaw, the calc treats it as a drill, like it's rotating.
 
ItsMeat said:
And all we see in the anime is the reishi going through several repeating positions around the blade. Sorry, but you are basically just making up stuff.
Click to expand...
Well yeah but its not visibly spinning around the blade, more like small spikes going up and down along the swords edges. For context thats what the calculation goes with.
 
For now im following, think the calc could potentially use pixelscaling for a more accurate result. Although if this isnt even a valid perception feat that isnt needed (Maybe more of a knowledgeable member thing maybe) but at least to me it doesnt seem like one.
 
ItsMeat said:
Also, "roughly" has no place here at all, he's able to accurately perceive the reishi moving.
Click to expand...
No
He's just naming what he knows about the blade, it's like me explaining light speed, doesn't mean I can perceive it
ItsMeat said:
He also perceive Cirruci's reishi vibrating too.
Click to expand...
And he indeed says that he senses (not sees) "between 1.1 and 1.3 million" vibrations for her feathers, which would be roughly and not something he accurately perceives
 
Mommyleona said:
No
He's just naming what he knows about the blade, it's like me explaining light speed, doesn't mean I can perceive it

And he indeed says that he senses (not sees) "between 1.1 and 1.3 million" vibrations for her feathers, which would be roughly and not something he accurately perceives
Click to expand...
Oh yeah this really doesnt seem like a perception feat.
 
Mommyleona said:
No
He's just naming what he knows about the blade, it's like me explaining light speed, doesn't mean I can perceive it
Click to expand...
Can you prove he's unable to perceive their movement? The fact he is was already accepted in the calc, you'd have to bring actual evidence for him being unable to do it. His feats against Cirruci also support this.
Mommyleona said:
And he indeed says that he senses (not sees) "between 1.1 and 1.3 million" vibrations for her feathers, which would be roughly and not something he accurately perceives
Click to expand...
Seeing is just one way to perceive. Perception is based on all senses. Saying this is not perception because he didn't say he sees it is just a bad Non-Sequitur.
ElJoaki5 said:
Well yeah but its not visibly spinning around the blade, more like small spikes going up and down along the swords edges. For context thats what the calculation goes with.
Click to expand...
Ofc you can't clearly see them spin around the blade, it'd ruin the entire purpose of the huge number of cycles per second. The statement that it works like a chainsaw is, however, right there and not contradicted by anything except certain baseless interpretations such as what the OP suggests. You also don't clearly see a chainsaw's chain spinning. And the tips of what you see do seem to vaguely move. Just like in the anime.
 
ItsMeat said:
Snip
Click to expand...
You are just mixing up what Uryu is tryna say with the literal path that each tooth of a chainsaw does. Ishida simply says the high speed vibrations of reishi allow him to counter vibrations of other stuff like a chainsaw would. The Reishi that makes up the blade's surface is not doing an entire circular motion around the entire surface of the blade. What he says is that the Reishi that makes up the surface VIBRATES at those 3,000,000 cycles per second. You are trying to claim the reishi is doing the second image movement, while it is simply doing the third and we see that in the anime more clearly.
LfQpOfT.png
uDhKEeZ.png
NbNDcN2.png
uKj1bpV.gif
 
ItsMeat said:
Can you prove he's unable to perceive their movement? The fact he is was already accepted in the calc, you'd have to bring actual evidence for him being unable to do it. His feats against Cirruci also support this.
Click to expand...
Not her burden btw
ItsMeat said:
Ofc you can't clearly see them spin around the blade, it'd ruin the entire purpose of the huge number of cycles per second.
Click to expand...
Then calc stacking Ishida's perception from it is wrong.
 
For clarification, i think the updated calc is good, but i dont think this is a perception speed feat in any way and so scaling off of it shouldnt be a thing. The calc can still be put in the verse page or smth idk.
 
The “3 million vibrations per second” calc doesn’t actually produce a valid speed at all, because it treats vibration frequency as if it were linear motion. Frequency (Hz) only tells you how often something oscillates, not how far it travels per cycle, so without a defined amplitude, you can’t convert it into velocity. On top of that, the method assumes the blade is rotating in a full circle (using circumference), which is never stated and artificially inflates the result. It also incorrectly equates Uryu perceiving those vibrations with having reactions at that speed. Because of these compounded errors, both the original and “downplay” calculations are fundamentally invalid, regardless of the final number they reach.

Even if the newer calc changes numbers (like arguing lower effective speed), it still:

1. Treats vibration frequency as movement speed.
2. Assumes a physical model that isn’t confirmed.
3. Equates perception with reaction.

So even if it gives a lower result, it’s still wrong in structure.
You cannot extract a valid speed from this feat at all without additional information.
 
"This isn't a Speed Feat"

Uryus Sensing = Uryus Perception

This is outrighted stated by Shunsui: Reikaku is your sense for Reiatsu and every Bleach Character with Reiatsu subconsciously uses their sense of vision (the eyes), and their sense of Reiatsu (Reikaku) at the same time in order to see. However when concentrating in the midst of battle ur Reikaku takes over an overwhelming amount of perception. In other words your subconscious begins to stop seeing with your eyes. So Bleach characters mid fight see by sensing Reiatsu (using their Reikaku) which is why Lillie didn't see any difference with Shunsuis reiatsu and himself, and the blindfold on the silhouette further proves they 100% switch to only using their Reikaku fully.

The new calc is based off the anime and a bad interpretation of the text

Idk why only 1 person questioned the use of the anime to contradict manga statements and got ignored... Putting that aside

This is the Viz Translation and even based off this one it's obv he's saying the entire blade is vibrating. "The Reishi that make up the blades surface vibrate..." the entire blade is made up of Reishi... Hell he even says it's like a chainsaw, the intent was super clear. However the raws are even clearer

Here's the raw and a translation from the OTR
1. High-speed vibrations are destroyed by even higher-speed vibrations.
2. The Seele Schneider, in terms of form, is a weapon similar to a chainsaw.
3. On the surface of the blade, which is composed of spirit particles, the particles move back and forth 3,000,000 times per second.

So yeah the Seele Schneider doesn't vibrate with a simple harmonic motion and works just like a chainsaw, so the new calc proposal should be immediately thrown out.
We should be able to go back to the old calcs method and just re calc it without the 1/speed or am i missing other issues?
 
Overvoid69 said:
"This isn't a Speed Feat"
Click to expand...
If theres an argument to be made about this being a perception speed feat then fine. This is something more fitting of a crt so I'll let that part be, i was more so worried about there not being any justification.
Overvoid69 said:
The new calc is based off the anime and a bad interpretation of the text

Idk why only 1 person questioned the use of the anime to contradict manga statements and got ignored... Putting that aside

This is the Viz Translation and even based off this one it's obv he's saying the entire blade is vibrating. "The Reishi that make up the blades surface vibrate..." the entire blade is made up of Reishi... Hell he even says it's like a chainsaw, the intent was super clear. However the raws are even clearer

Here's the raw and a translation from the OTR
1. High-speed vibrations are destroyed by even higher-speed vibrations.
2. The Seele Schneider, in terms of form, is a weapon similar to a chainsaw.
3. On the surface of the blade, which is composed of spirit particles, the particles move back and forth 3,000,000 times per second.

So yeah the Seele Schneider doesn't vibrate with a simple harmonic motion and works just like a chainsaw, so the new calc proposal should be immediately thrown out.
We should be able to go back to the old calcs method and just re calc it without the 1/speed or am i missing other issues?
Click to expand...
"3. On the surface of the blade, which is composed of spirit particles, the particles move back and forth 3,000,000 times per second."
Dont you realize that youve just disproven yourself? Thats literally a description of an harmonic movement.
This flat out proves that the 3000000 cycles isnt referring to the spinning around the blade but rather to the up and down vibration along the sword's surface that is visible in the anime (If it wasnt clear enough already, as the 3 million number was already clearly referring to the vibration and not the spinning)

"But it works like a chainsaw"
Sure, but that is irrelevant, the Reishi can circle around the blade, sure. But the 3000000 value specifically refers to the vibration and not to the spinning.

In my opinion this would be an undulatory movement, where the vibrations travel along the edge of the blade like a chainsaw, while also going back and forth at 3000000 cycles a second. This would take into account both the vibratory part (Which youre purposely ignoring to say it purely spins around the blade) and it being described to work like a chainsaw (The formula for speed remains the same).
 
ElJoaki5 said:
Overvoid69 said:
Here's the raw and a translation from the OTR
1. High-speed vibrations are destroyed by even higher-speed vibrations.
2. The Seele Schneider, in terms of form, is a weapon similar to a chainsaw.
3. On the surface of the blade, which is composed of spirit particles, the particles move back and forth 3,000,000 times per second.

So yeah the Seele Schneider doesn't vibrate with a simple harmonic motion and works just like a chainsaw, so the new calc proposal should be immediately thrown out.
We should be able to go back to the old calcs method and just re calc it without the 1/speed or am i missing other issues?
Click to expand...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Click to expand...
yWtC2uF.png
 
I agree with removing the old calc. It's blatantly wrong.

The translation from the OTR thread also proves that the vibration is simple harmonic motion, as that's what "back and forth" implies. Two things can be true: the spirit particles can spin around the blade's surface like a chainsaw while also vibrating back and forth 3,000,000 times per second. The former can't be calced with our known information while the latter can.

As for removing it as a perception feat entirely, I'm neutral leaning toward disagreeing. "Sensing" is a type of perception. Hell, we even have a page for different types of perception. The Perception Manipulation page also lists the following as types of perception:
  • Vision.
  • Hearing
  • Touch
  • Olfactory
  • Taste
  • Proprioception
  • Balance
  • Perception
Click to expand...
The speed at which an individual can process information from different types of perception are valid as a feat.

There's also Overvoid's point of Reikaku and sight being linked subconsciously.
 
ElJoaki5 said:
This seems like a pretty straightforward calc issue. If theres no objections we might as well conclude it.
@M3X_2.0 What do you think or do you want one more vote?
Click to expand...
The only thing that would need votes for is the validity of the perception feat. The original calc is wrong and we just accepted the substitute, so it’s no different from evaluating a calc. It can be applied and closed.

@Mommyleona remember to edit the verse page accordingly
 
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