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Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode VI Return of the Threadi

Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I don't like how the Skywalkers are given this grandeurof all things. Star Wars isn't like Naruto where these prominent clans like the Uchiha or Hyuga or Uzumaki or Senju, and it isn't like Avatar: The Last Airbender where the Fire Lord deliberately married the descendent of the Avatar; Anakin started out as a slave boy to a single mother and ended up getting involved with the conflict on Naboo, sure he's the Chosen One and much more powerful than most other Force Wielders but the Force still gave him a role to fulfill and he fulfills it at the end of The Return of the Jedi. There's nothing to say about the strength of his children or descendants as Anakin is supposed to be this only one instance of a Force Wielder this powerful. This grandeur just feels unnecessary, like saying that only the Skywalkers matter and no one else, much like how only the Uchiha matter and no one else.
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I find it funny that Anakin never really fulfilled his purpose in either continuity; in Legends it's even worse since the Sith Empire returns.

I also agree that the idea that "if you're not a genetic descendant of Anakin you're not important" is stupid.

Episode 9 tried to convey this idea of "it doesn't matter who you're descended from," but episode 8 had already done it better by establishing that Rey wasn't the daughter of anyone relevant instead of coming up with the stupid and poorly explained last-minute plot twist that she was Palpatine's granddaughter.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Only reason why that role was even fulfilled in the first place is because of Luke Skywalker in the original trilogy. Also the original trilogy came out first prior to the Prequel series where Anakin was slaughtering Jedi younglings, knights, and Masters with the 501 in the Revenge of the Sith.


Dude literally crash out because of a self fulfilled vision of his wife dying post pregnancy and don’t get me started on how he behaved in Attack of The Clones as a teenager.

At least, we can agree on the Clone Wars fleshing out his character after Attack of The Clones at leasT while being a flawed individual.
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Anakin not being a good person is kind of the point.

Star Wars was based on Dune, which also has the trope "the chosen one becomes a genocidal tyrant but in a way still fulfills the prophecy."
 
MrSpockVulcan said:
Anakin not being a good person is kind of the point.

Star Wars was based on Dune, which also has the trope "the chosen one becomes a genocidal tyrant but in a way still fulfills the prophecy."
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He is a selfish decent person. I literally cannot think of a good person who can’t been selfish at times.

Again, Anakin wasn’t necessarily a bad person.

At his best, he is actually a good person. At his worst, he acts like a entitled selfish brat like in Attack of The Clones in his late Teens which he is really that bratty from recollection of the film. Edit: I forget to include the Tusken Raiders tribe massacre after how he responded to his mother’s death.

I think he has good moments in the Clone Wars TV Show at least.
 
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MrSpockVulcan said:
I find it funny that Anakin never really fulfilled his purpose in either continuity; in Legends it's even worse since the Sith Empire returns.

I also agree that the idea that "if you're not a genetic descendant of Anakin you're not important" is stupid.

Episode 9 tried to convey this idea of "it doesn't matter who you're descended from," but episode 8 had already done it better by establishing that Rey wasn't the daughter of anyone relevant instead of coming up with the stupid and poorly explained last-minute plot twist that she was Palpatine's granddaughter.
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Minor correction, it wasn’t the Sith Empire, it was actually the Lost Tribes of the Sith that basically make what Anakin did kinda pointless either way.


Same applies to the Sequel Trilogy in that regard as it rehashes the Original Trilogy, but some differences. All that effort from the Original Trilogy undone with the Sequel Trilogy.
 
MrSpockVulcan said:
That whole thing about him being the one who would "destroy the Sith," then...
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The new canon established that the Force always has to be rebalanced from time to time. Like, things are never permanently balanced. In this case, it remained that way for 20 years until episode 7.
 
vsbattles.com

How should this calc be done?

I had created this calc which seemed simple on first glace: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Elzar_Mann_throws_a_sky-island However @Dalesean027 said that it should be better to use GPE over assuming a velocity But the problem is that we don't know how much the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
He is a selfish decent person. I literally cannot think of a good person who can’t been selfish at times.

Again, Anakin wasn’t necessarily a bad person.

At his best, he is actually a good person. At his worst, he acts like a entitled selfish brat like in Attack of The Clones in his late Teens which he is really that bratty from recollection of the film.

I think he has good moments in the Clone Wars TV Show at least.
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I wouldn't say that someone who committed multiple genocides is a good person, even if they later repented.
HammerStrikes219 said:
Minor correction, it wasn’t the Sith Empire, it was actually the Lost Tribes of the Sith that basically make what Anakin did kinda pointless either way.
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The Sith Empire, the empire led by the Sith Order of Darth Krayt, you understand.
HammerStrikes219 said:
Same applies to the Sequel Trilogy in that regard as it rehashes the Original Trilogy, but some differences. All that effort from the Original Trilogy undone with the Sequel Trilogy.
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Phsccarvalho said:
The new canon established that the Force always has to be rebalanced from time to time. Like, things are never permanently balanced. In this case, it remained that way for 20 years until episode 7.
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I'm fine with the idea that the galaxy wasn't at peace forever after Palpatine died because that's stupid; the problem was bringing Palpatine back.

Furthermore, this is obviously a retcon since I definitely didn't interpret the prequel prophecy as "he is the one who will destroy the Sith... temporarily."
 
MrSpockVulcan said:
I wouldn't say that someone who committed multiple genocides is a good person, even if they later repented.

The Sith Empire, the empire led by the Sith Order of Darth Krayt, you understand.



I'm fine with the idea that the galaxy wasn't at peace forever after Palpatine died because that's stupid; the problem was bringing Palpatine back.

Furthermore, this is obviously a retcon since I definitely didn't interpret the prequel prophecy as "he is the one who will destroy the Sith... temporarily."
Click to expand...

Again, I using Anakin Pre ROTS before his downfall if my wording wasn’t implying pre Knightfall Anakin already.

I am well aware of what Darth Vader does during and after Knightfall.
 
MrSpockVulcan said:
Legends Luke fans when they actually read the Legends instead of just hearing about how powerful he is on TikTok/YouTube shorts, and discover that he also failed to stop his nephew from becoming a Sith, the Second Galactic Civil War from happening, and the New Jedi Order from falling. (His wife also died):

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Or they have read Legends when they were young and are too blinded by nostalgia to realize that Luke also failed to rebuild the Order there too.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Again, I using Anakin Pre ROTS before his downfall if my wording wasn’t implying pre Knightfall Anakin already.

I am well aware of what Darth Vader does during and after Knightfall.
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It's not his first rodeo. Didn't also kill kids and do a mini genocide in Attack of the Clones. I like Anakin as a complex & nuanced character, but he did bad shit before he even became Vader.
 
Legion350 said:
It's not his first rodeo. Didn't also kill kids and do a mini genocide in Attack of the Clones. I like Anakin as a complex & nuanced character, but he did bad shit before he even became Vader.
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Again, I am also aware of Anakin killing the Tusken Raiders after his mother’s death and him admitted that straightup to Padme’s face while we are at it.


It was a local tribe massacre. I not that unaware of that fact as it is.

Actually I should reword it then.
 
MrSpockVulcan said:
Furthermore, this is obviously a retcon since I definitely didn't interpret the prequel prophecy as "he is the one who will destroy the Sith... temporarily."
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Well, the thing is, no matter what Disney does or releases in terms of content, the original films will always be the same, and the original films have George Lucas's ideas and concepts that differ from Disney's.

As far as I remember, for George Lucas the balance was simply the Light Side prevailing over the Dark Side.

Disney wanted to change it to be something like Yin and Yang (just look at the image of Jedi Prime), that the two things have to exist in a balanced way. Disney also implies that the extermination of the Jedi was part of the plan to balance the Force.

-

Anyway, I think the prophecy's outcome is worse in Legends? I mean, it seems like a bunch of Sith Lords have emerged after ROTJ, while in canon it was basically just Sidious.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Well, the thing is, no matter what Disney does or releases in terms of content, the original films will always be the same, and the original films have George Lucas's ideas and concepts that differ from Disney's.

As far as I remember, for George Lucas the balance was simply the Light Side prevailing over the Dark Side.

Disney wanted to change it to be something like Yin and Yang (just look at the image of Jedi Prime), that the two things have to exist in a balanced way. Disney also implies that the extermination of the Jedi was part of the plan to balance the Force.

-

Anyway, I think the prophecy's outcome is worse in Legends? I mean, it seems like a bunch of Sith Lords have emerged after ROTJ, while in canon it was basically just Sidious.
Click to expand...


Outside of Sidious, technically we still have some group of Dark Siders like Knight of Rens (I don’t think they were ever implied to be light side users to say the least).

It can’t been helped that Disney focused so much on the Sith and Jedi, but other force groups being left out to say the least.


Also RIP Nightsisters since they literally been massacred to at best, some survivors and so on.

The one nightsister getting revived being Ventress while there are a few survivors of the massacre of the Nightsisters.

It is also kinda clear that the Jedi and Nightsisters relationship is more like “We leave you guys alone and in return, you guys leave us alone” despite using Dark Side Magic related things anyway
 
Oh, same applies for the Night sisters in Legends as the Jedi clearly didn’t tried to interfere with Nightsister stuff even though the Sith have some hidden interactions with the Nightsisters prior to the prequel series from recollection
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
Or they have read Legends when they were young and are too blinded by nostalgia to realize that Luke also failed to rebuild the Order there too.
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This is technically a misconception as Luke did have the Jedi Order rebuilt over time, but just historical precedent rears its ugly head for it happening again, but a hundred years later rather than it collapsing in a few decades or so in the case of the Jedi Order by Former Grandmaster Luke in Disney Canon.

He didn’t even fail to rebuild the Jedi Order in Legends, it actually managed to succeed for quite a long time. Long after his death and all
 
Legion350 said:
It's not his first rodeo. Didn't also kill kids and do a mini genocide in Attack of the Clones. I like Anakin as a complex & nuanced character, but he did bad shit before he even became Vader.
Click to expand...


In any case, Anakin was literally responding to his mother’s death after her torment while being kept as a captive by the Tusken Raiders.

I don’t fully remember the details before Shimi’s death, but apparently Dooku and Sidious by proxy was supposed to have a hand in Shimi’s death, but was later removed.


Either way, it also show Darth Sidious’s manipulations was going strong after Phantom Menace if it wasn’t removed from the AOTC movie and all.


I do want to point that out as well as it is.

He literally didn’t take kindly to what happened to his mother at the hand of the Tusken Raiders local tribes there.
 
So, Anakin does kinda have a excuse for wanting to kill the Tusken Raiders tribe (I not exactly approve of his actions), but let’s not kid ourselves, if your parents was tormented for weeks if not months and you discover them before they died of torture.

Here is the options:

1. You go after the ones responsible for torturing your parents to death through legal means

2. You decide to straightup merk them as feelings of revenge, anger, and rage with any resources available to you.

I know Anakin took the second option as he kinda hated the Tusken Raiders tribe for torturing his mother for weeks if not longer.
 
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I mean, yeah, I'll be honest and say that if someone put their hands on my mother, much less did what happened to Shmi then I wouldn't hesitate to put them in a grave. I wouldn't slaughter an entire village worth of people, children included, but whoever hurt my mom is dying that day.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
The new canon established that the Force always has to be rebalanced from time to time. Like, things are never permanently balanced.
Click to expand...
It's kind of the same thing in the EU as well, George Lucas has said that the Force can only achieve balance though the Dark Side being overthrown
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
If a few decades counts that is, and Wookiepedia even considers it possible that he might've beared witness to the Third Jedi Purge anyway
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I thinking of Legends here and it is couple of decades closer to a century at this point


HammerStrikes219 said:
In fact, from an old Post OT comic series called Star Wars Legacy, they straightup confirmed Luke Skywalker’s Jedi Order persisted for a hundred years.

ibb.co

IMG 2253 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG 2253 hosted on ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co
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HammerStrikes219 said:
I thinking of Legends here and it is couple of decades closer to a century at this point
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The last time that Luke was chronologically seen was in 45 ABY, that's only around 8 to 9 decades before the Third Jedi Purge, only a drop in the bucket compared to the almost two milennia between the First Jedi Purge and the Fourth Great Schism.
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
The last time that Luke was chronologically seen was in 45 ABY, that's only around 8 to 9 decades before the Third Jedi Purge, only a drop in the bucket compared to the almost two milennia between the First Jedi Purge and the Fourth Great Schism.
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There is several caveats to consider outside of your own bias (I have yet to see a single person not being biased and I myself am biased, but I prefer to see through the bias as much as possible)


The Jedi Order has its ups and downs especially when Order 66 came around and massacre a bunch of Jedi.



That is the fall of Yoda’s Jedi Order mind you and a new Jedi Order rising up from the ashes of the old one was the point of Luke’s Jedi Order so I don’t consider this point of yours that important outside of chronological timelines.

Every organizations, societies, civilizations, and so on will collapse and fall, but how they rebuild themselves is a different story so I feel this ultimately less important in the Grand Scheme of things as Luke’s Jedi Order did manage to persist and rebuild after the Third Jedi Purge.
 
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XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I mean, yeah, I'll be honest and say that if someone put their hands on my mother, much less did what happened to Shmi then I wouldn't hesitate to put them in a grave. I wouldn't slaughter an entire village worth of people, children included, but whoever hurt my mom is dying that day.
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If Anakin had killed the people who tortured his Mom, I’d be fine with it. Even if he killed the torturers and then killed those defending them it’d be morally ambiguous but understandable.

HammerStrikes219 said:
So, Anakin does kinda have a excuse for wanting to kill the Tusken Raiders … but let’s not kid ourselves, if your parents was tormented for weeks if not months and you discover them before they died of torture.

Here is the options:

1. You go after the ones responsible for torturing your parents to death through legal means

2. You decide to straightup merk them as feelings of revenge, anger, and rage with any resources available to you.

I know Anakin took the second option as he kinda hated the Tusken Raiders tribe for torturing his mother for weeks if not longer.
Click to expand...
I think they should’ve handled it differently but as is, he chose to kill a bunch of kids who weren’t involved with the kidnapping. Also, it’s funny how they never bring it up again after that. Like Padme saying Anakin could never do something like that after he already mentioned killing kids is odd.
 
Legion350 said:
If Anakin had killed the people who tortured his Mom, I’d be fine with it. Even if he killed the torturers and then killed those defending them it’d be morally ambiguous but understandable.


I think they should’ve handled it differently but as is, he chose to kill a bunch of kids who weren’t involved with the kidnapping. Also, it’s funny how they never bring it up again after that. Like Padme saying Anakin could never do something like that after he already mentioned killing kids is odd.
Click to expand...

Yeah, unironically Anakin was literally too blinded by his own need to avenge his mother’s death and we know Qui Gon did respond with “Anakin, NOOO” when Yoda was mediating and all.

He take the second option, but a little too far I might add.
 
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