Downgrade to MHA... don't worry, it's just Tailman

So... against a specific MHA character



Now, what happens with Ojiro?

As for those who scale to Tailman AP&Durability ((I'm only mentioning the profiles that link to him that somehow escalate to him, so if I missed any, let me know)

We do rate Mirko's leg durability higher than her body durability, so this has precedent, but I wouldn't rate the AP like that. "Unknown, Multi-City Block level+ with Tail" is not necessary, he almost always attacks with his tail (in the manga at least), it would be like rating Mirko "Unknown, Large Island level+ with Rabbit" because we don't know the power of her punches.

Just rate the power of his tail: "Multi-City Block level+ with Tail" like we do with other physical Quirks.

As for his durability, we do see his face with some bruises after fighting Spiral, bruises similar to the ones he has in his tail, showing that not all of Spiral's attacks were blocked by Ojiro's tail, but also managed hit his body, this is supported by the fact that Sero says Ojiro is getting beat up so ordinary.

So I propose that his durability should be: "Multi-City Block level+, higher with Tail" since his tail is clearly intended to be the strongest part of his body and he uses it as a shield, but the difference is not that massive.

"Destroyed a larger portion of a bridge than Tailman could".

This part is my fault, but I was basically trying to say that Jiro's sound waves have more destructive power than Tailman's tail, as they destroyed a larger portion of the bridge than Tailman's attack.

As for removing Power Loader, someone out there (I'm not going to say their name) is working on using those power stats from the Guide Books, so maybe we should keep his profile around to see if having a A in power is enough to rate his attack potency.

I guess his speed would have to be "At least Athletic Human with Supersonic+ reactions and combat speed" as we did with the other students without solid speed scaling.

Therefir said:

As for his durability, we do see his face with some bruises after fighting Spiral, bruises similar to the ones he has in his tail, showing that not all of Spiral's attacks were blocked by Ojiro's tail, but also managed hit his body, this is supported by the fact that Sero says Ojiro is getting beat up so ordinary.

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Those seem superficial, considering Spiral straight up says he's been blocking and dodging the whole time, they're probably not direct attacks (Remember that Spiral basically has drills in her fingers, the direct damage from these are not bruises.), plus Spiral gets his AP from damaging Tailman, so if you scale Tailman to Spiral, you end up in an endless loop.
What you really have to prove is that he received Chimera attacks on his body

Therefir said:

As for removing Power Loader, someone out there (I'm not going to say their name) is working on using those power stats from the Guide Books, so maybe we should keep his profile around to see if having a A in power is enough to rate his attack potency.

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Ok, but his current stats have no valid arguments, so we should at least fix his scaling until such a project is carried out
When we don't even know how the canon fight went, beyond that he somehow caught Ingenium, which doesn't seem to be Ap
Edit: Also, I think I know who you're talking about.

Therefir said:

I guess his speed would have to be "At least Athletic Human with Supersonic+ reactions and combat speed" as we did with the other students without solid speed scaling.

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makes sense
I assume that indicating that he has been training and should be better than before as an explanation

bump

OP seems to be okay to me.

Therefir said:

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Therifir, sorry, but what is your opinion of my answer?

Sparkive said:

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Your suggestions are fine, given that Ojiro's bruises could come only from grazes and not from direct hits.

Still, you should delete the Unknown part of his AP and just list the power of his Tail.

Ojiro's durability will still be 8-A+, since Nine at the point is still 8-A+ during those scenes, as he can hurt Shoji who is 8-A+.

Both Ojiro and Shoji take attacks from Nine, same is true for Jiro as well. Jiro is actually caught in the attack that hurt Ojiro and Shoji as well.

Ojiro said Kaibara was deflecting all of his attacks, which means he did throw attacks at him and Kaibara physically dealt with them. Ojiro is only now just dodging but he had launched his own attacks and tried parrying Kaibara's attacks as well. He didn't only dodge for their entire fight.

Also about Kaibara and Ojiro's speed. Ojiro dodged those attacks from Chimera, so that is indeed scaling. Doesn't matter if he was going to get hit by the fourth. And of course none of them don't react to Iida until he grabs Kaibara, I'd like for you to react to someone you don't know is coming and from out of your line of sight.

Both of them noticed Iida before he could travel any significant distance. However, it's only a perception feat and not a reaction feat.

Here a Sandbox of my changes to the profile.

Ojiro Changes: Ojiro's AP rating specifies it's for his Tail, there's no reason for an unknown rating. Also, his Tail has higher durability. First key Oijro's durability scales to Mineta. Second key durability scales from taking hits from Nine as explained above. Add imgur scans of his justification.

Jiro's Changes: Got rid of the 8-A+ rating for her Earphone Jack and moved it to her Amplifier Jack, as she caused more destruction that Ojiro can. Also did the same moving around with her 7-C rating, I don't know why I labeled it for her Earphone Jack when it was her Amp that produces Heartbeat Wall. Add Imgur scans as well.

Spiral's Changes: Add Imgur scans as well. Clarified his durability, and his AP notes it's for damaging Ojiro's Tail.

Now for Power Loader? Want to delete his profile, but it's probably better to make his rating Unknown for now, because of what Therefir said above.

TheRustyOne said:

Ojiro's durability will still be 8-A+, since Nine at the point is still 8-A+ during those scenes, as he can hurt Shoji who is 8-A+.

Both Ojiro and Shoji take attacks from Nine, same is true for Jiro as well. Jiro is actually caught in the attack that hurt Ojiro and Shoji as well.

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1.- Shoji is physically one of the strongest students, not counting quirks, yes (It's the whole reason why he has his Ap)... which makes it strange that Ojiro is on par with Shoji, (this is the same for Jiro) by the way, Shoji loses 2 arms in the first laser, how the hell did his body survive those same lasers all over his body?

2- The quirk he uses in the second link is air wall, does this do damage?
I mean, yes, it protects and yes, it has the power to overpower 8% Deku, but in general, all the quirk does is protect and push the enemy.
(in fact, the cry of feeling damage from the three only happens when they have already collided with something by being pushed, not while they are flying/they should have received the damage) damn, in the clip used in Nine's Ap, it doesn't seem to have hurt Deku)

By the way, it's been a while since I saw the full movie... Isn't this what finally knocked out the 3? If so, they shouldn't even be scaling that.

Also, are we even sure that all of Nine's quirks scale to the same thing?

TheRustyOne said:

Ojiro said Kaibara was deflecting all of his attacks, which means he did throw attacks at him and Kaibara physically dealt with them. Ojiro is only now just dodging but he had launched his own attacks and tried parrying Kaibara's attacks as well. He didn't only dodge for their entire fight.

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And how did he do it? We don't know, the manga skips their fight
And why does that matter? Spiral scales on Ap (just his quirk) to deal damage to Ojiro's tail, I don't see it as a good idea to do a cyclic scaling of Ojiro with his tail when his tail is supposedly stronger & more resistant than Ojiro within the lore

It doesn't serve as an argument in favor of Ojiro on the other hand, there is no major problem with Spiral scaling in durability to this
Although, for the sake of argument, Spiral's quirk is to spin any part of her body, it would be enough for her to spin while blocking to be able to deflect her attacks (causing damage with any interaction)

TheRustyOne said:

Also about Kaibara and Ojiro's speed. Ojiro dodged those attacks from Chimera, so that is indeed scaling. Doesn't matter if he was going to get hit by the fourth. And of course none of them don't react to Iida until he grabs Kaibara, I'd like for you to react to someone you don't know is coming and from out of your line of sight.

Both of them noticed Iida before he could travel any significant distance. However, it's only a perception feat and not a reaction feat.

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Chimera
The problem with this is... they're falling rocks
There's enough distance and time for Ojiro to react, he's already dodging the first and second ones before they even appear on screen
The third one was thrown in front of him to take away his room to move and the fourth one almost hit him (the only one he didn't start moving with before Chimera even threw it)

Iida
How do you know? It's a manga, and the anime scene is different, so I doubt you can use it as a reference
Let's see each panel one by one:

• Panel 2, the action happens
• Panel 3 Spiral reacts (we only see his face)
• Panel 4 Tailman reacts (we only see his face)
• Panel 5 A blurry Ingenium speaks (we only see his face and if it's blurry it's probably because he's moving so fast that no one in the scene is able to see him completely)
• Panel 6, he's already far away

We can't tell how far away he was from Ojiro until we see him leave, and the entire time he's in the scene is probably a blur to Ojiro eyes.
Also, Iida is supposed to be moving so fast that he can't even fully react to his own movements (and he can blitz Mudman), narratively it wouldn't make sense for non-speedsters to suddenly be able to fully react to Ingenium while he can't in literally the same chapter (204 - just a few pages apart)
Ingenium was tried to be sold as a speedster

TheRustyOne said:

Now for Power Loader? Want to delete his profile, but it's probably better to make his rating Unknown for now, because of what Therefir said above.

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Makes sense.

Sparkive said:

1.- Shoji is physically one of the strongest students, not counting quirks, yes (It's the whole reason why he has his Ap)... which makes it strange that Ojiro is on par with Shoji, (this is the same for Jiro) by the way, Shoji loses 2 arms in the first laser, how the hell did his body survive those same lasers all over his body?

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There's nothing strange about this since Ojiro's strength outside of his Quirk is Unknown. Strength doesn't mean durability, he scales for having the same feats.

You finding it weird doesn't mean anything, the scaling is valid. Nine can hurt Shoji, and Ojiro can takes hits from Nine and gets back up. The same is true with Jiro.

Shoji didn't lose any arms from the lasers, what in gods name are you talking about?

Sparkive said:

2- The quirk he uses in the second link is air wall, does this do damage?
I mean, yes, it protects and yes, it has the power to overpower 8% Deku, but in general, all the quirk does is protect and push the enemy.
(in fact, the cry of feeling damage from the three only happens when they have already collided with something by being pushed, not while they are flying/they should have received the damage) damn, in the clip used in Nine's Ap, it doesn't seem to have hurt Deku)

By the way, it's been a while since I saw the full movie... Isn't this what finally knocked out the 3? If so, they shouldn't even be scaling that.

Also, are we even sure that all of Nine's quirks scale to the same thing?

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Yes they do, every Quirk that can attack injured 8% Izuku and Bakugo. Any speculation you're trying to reach here is incorrect. There's also no reason for us to assume one Quirk has been weakened more than any other, since his Quirks aren't weakening it's his body.

Air Wall does indeed cause damage, literally shows as much in the scans I provided as well but whatever.

They scale to each other because they took similar damage. If someone took an attack alongside a character and both were defeated, their durability would scale to each other. We also don't know if they were knocked out, we don't see those two again until the Heroes and Military arrive. And Jiro and Ojiro have the same injuries.

Saying they're knocked out is incorrect.

Note: Shoji is more injured because he protected the kids from falling rocks.

Sparkive said:

It doesn't serve as an argument in favor of Ojiro on the other hand, there is no major problem with Spiral scaling in durability to this

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???
It's not an argument for Ojiro, it's for Spiral's durability. Spiral scales to Ojiro so he cannot get scaling from Spiral as that is circular. What are you on about here?

Sparkive said:

Chimera

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They're not falling straight down they're thrown at an angle. It's his strength and he's that strong and fast. Your issue is here seems you don't like how it's portrayed which is irrelevant to the scaling. He can dodge attacks from this casual Chimera.

He even reacts to and blocked a punch from Chimera as well. Pictures of it as well, in case the motion is too fast. I updated the sandbox above with this as well.

Sparkive said:

Iida

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You can see Ojiro and Kaibara notice him before Kaibara gets pulled away.

But like I said this is only a perception feat and is not reaction. They are not scaling to Iida's Recipro Turbo. I removed it in the sandbox above as it's not important.

I agree with TheRusty, and the changes in his sandbox look great (I would add in Ojiro's Tail durability that it's stated to be particularly sturdy and solid compared to the rest of his body).

Therefir said:

I agree with TheRusty, and the changes in his sandbox look great (I would add in Ojiro's Tail durability that it's stated to be particularly sturdy and solid compared to the rest of his body).

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Added that to my sandbox linked in the above comment, with scans as well.

TheRustyOne said:

There's nothing strange about this since Ojiro's strength outside of his Quirk is Unknown. Strength doesn't mean durability, he scales for having the same feats.

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You usually correlate the 2 in WOG mentions like this, no one is going to ask "which student has the most durability without using quirks?"
Shoji is supposed to be superior in physical stats without quirks to the rest of his classmates, that's basically what the mention is.
You are trying to escalate Ojiro to Shoji, even though even in the movie he resists more

TheRustyOne said:

Shoji didn't lose any arms from the lasers, what in gods name are you talking about?

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literally the first laser

TheRustyOne said:

Yes they do, every Quirk that can attack injured 8% Izuku and Bakugo. Any speculation you're trying to reach here is incorrect. There's also no reason for us to assume one Quirk has been weakened more than any other, since his Quirks aren't weakening it's his body.

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Literally Bakugo and Deku are able to break his air shield unlike before
Bakugo can stop his lasers and Deku break his water dragons
The only thing you can justify this to is that Nine is weakening after the spasms (of which he has one just before interacting with Ojiro and Jiro)
Shoji's laser scene happens after that
the shield scene happens after that

TheRustyOne said:

Air Wall does indeed cause damage, literally shows as much in the scans I provided as well but whatever.

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The first is a different use of the attack in which it is used... as an attack
If you throw a shield at someone it is not the same as if you simply defend yourself from them, obviously the first one is going to do damage
The second one is the same but worse, it is clearly a distint use of the attack
The third one... I don't even know what's going on here, that one could be valid

but apart from maybe the third, when he uses it as a shield and not as an attack, it doesn't seem to result in physical damage, or at least not the same

TheRustyOne said:

They scale to each other because they took similar damage. If someone took an attack alongside a character and both were defeated, their durability would scale to each other. We also don't know if they were knocked out, we don't see those two again until the Heroes and Military arrive. And Jiro and Ojiro have the same injuries.

Saying they're knocked out is incorrect.

Note: Shoji is more injured because he protected the kids from falling rocks.

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Literally the rest of the characters end up defeated | out of combat, why would you assume that these 2 wouldn't if they don't reappear until the military has already arrived?
if they don't appear again until the end... it's because they were knocked out (fainted or not, that was what defeated them)
The fact that shoji was even able to protect them indicates that he could resist more

Also why are you even giving proof that Ojiro scales to Jiro? Neither of them have resistance feats other than those discussed.
It's clear that they are comparable, what I'm debating is that they scale to Shoji

TheRustyOne said:

They're not falling straight down they're thrown at an angle. It's his strength and he's that strong and fast. Your issue is here seems you don't like how it's portrayed which is irrelevant to the scaling. He can dodge attacks from this casual Chimera.

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Again, he was already dodging before they got close to him, that's the definition of aim dogging (and only the first 2, the third one was clearly thrown in front of him on purpose and you already know about the fourth one)
If you want an example of what I mean, let's go to the Sugarman scene, he sees that Chimera is free and decides to protect himself before Chimera even extends his arm

The movie doesn't leave them static until the attack in question

TheRustyOne said:

He even reacts to and blocked a punch from Chimera as well. Pictures of it as well, in case the motion is too fast. I updated the sandbox above with this as well.

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Ok, in that case you are right in this, that is a pretty clear speed feat.

You usually correlate the 2 in WOG mentions like this, no one is going to ask "which student has the most durability without using quirks?"
Shoji is supposed to be superior in physical stats without quirks to the rest of his classmates, that's basically what the mention is.

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What kind of argument is this, they being comparable doesn't necessarily mean one can't be a little stronger than the other, and the feats in the story take precedence over any outside statements, even from the author.

but apart from maybe the third, when he uses it as a shield and not as an attack, it doesn't seem to result in physical damage, or at least not the same

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In both cases not only did the shield repelled the attacks back, but you can heard both Deku and Bakugo grunting from being pushed back physically with the shield, and is exactly what he did to knock them out, crush them with his shield.

It's clear that the shield can push and exert force strong enough to harm characters on Shoji's level, you are arguing semantics at this point.

Literally Bakugo and Deku are able to break his air shield unlike before

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This is irrelevant as they did it with a combined attack, and with serious struggle, it doesn't make the shield fall a whole tier.

The only thing you can justify this to is that Nine is weakening after the spasms

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As if it wasn't obvious, Deku and Bakugo's attacks are clearly more effective than at the beginning, once again I'm not sure what's your argument, that Nine's attacks somehow weakened to 8-A and are no longer 8-A+ except for his lasers and shields?

God I can't believe we are wasting an entire thread space on this, God help us get MHA High 6-A before 2025.

Therefir said:

This is irrelevant as they did it with a combined attack, and with serious struggle, it doesn't make the shield fall a whole tier.

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1. What are you talking about? It will still be the same tier.
2. the barrier scales to Deku 20% (City level)
Are you telling me that between the two of them they were able to skip like 4 tiers?

Therefir said:

crush them with his shield

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So that's what he's doing there? Well, worse, he's basically hitting him with the shield (against the ground, too).
Also, "that's what knocks them out", they could barely move, anything could have knocked them out
Ok, the shield has power, but if they are perfectly fine after being repelled while ending up having trouble to moving when hit directly with the shield, then clearly one method is superior in dealing damage over the other.

Also, the fact that we don't see Ojiro and Jiro again until the very end,
in the movie where basically everyone is knocked out, while Shoji holds out long enough to be able to protect the children afterwards, clearly wants to show that that take out Ojiro and Jiro, but no Shoji.

Therefir said:

As if it wasn't obvious, Deku and Bakugo's attacks are clearly more effective than at the beginning, once again I'm not sure what's your argument, that Nine's attacks somehow weakened to 8-A and are no longer 8-A+ except for his lasers and shields?

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TheRustyOne said that the quirk is still just as strong, and the only thing that gets weaker is the body:

There's also no reason for us to assume one Quirk has been weakened more than any other, since his Quirks aren't weakening it's his body.

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And my response to that was that.
Other than that
I'm using the fact that characters who were trashed before, can go through everything they couldn't before without much difficulty
I also related it to the literal spasms Nine is having (which he doesn't inject himself with anything to keep himself in one piece, unlike before) saying that from that point on you can't scale his quirks to Bakugo/Deku anymore, and if I'm right, all of Shoji's scaling to usual Nine is nullified.
About the lasers, I probably expressed myself badly. What I was trying to say is that lasers are clearly stronger than being launched by the shield, they leave damage that can cut skin, remove arms (first lazer), and break one of Bakugo's grenades, while Deku and Bakugo tank without major problems when repelled by a shield (which probably launches them with the force with which they hit it, at most).

So what do you have, nothing is scaling to Bakugo and Deku anymore, while lasers are clearly superior to the shield's propulsion
what do you have left?, the water hydras at that moment are not scaling to anything either,

Even without that, Shoji after being launched into a wall by the shield, was still able to protect the kids from falling rocks, while Ojiro and Jiro were taken out of combat after being launched by the shield (again, this is the movie where everyone ends up knocked out, why would we assume they didn't end up like that too?)

Therefir said:

God I can't believe we are wasting an entire thread space on this, God help us get MHA High 6-A before 2025.

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And that was uncalled

Bump.

1st
I apologize, I had to step away from the forum for a few days (basic drawing course + concentration issues meant that if I did manage to check the forum every day, I probably wouldn't finish before my free trial of domestika plus ended)
Note: The fact that you can't get certificates if you finish a course with the free version of plus, and any that you finish with that version you won't be able to get even with the paid version is sh#t)

2nd
I'm definitely the worst at arguing here, but I still think I'm right
I think it's best to call the staff and get this over with, the only vote currently is on Damage, and all the discussion is after that, so it's outdated
It will probably be rejected, but to at least apply Rusty's version