• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Duality in Trinity Seven

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rendynoc0unter

Rendynoc0unter

Lilith Asami Supremacy
Any/All
Joke Battles
Content Moderator
1,802
5,310
Spirits or Elements are the source of the power that make up the world. Not only life-giving, Fire Spirits can also serve as energy activators, but are also responsible for burning things to ashes.

And they are the power needed to sustain the world, and exist in all places and things in the world. A world without Spirits is heading towards destruction, and only someone who is loved by Spirits or who is on a mission to destroy the world, can sense and see Spirits. Anna is also a Spirit user.
Feats.
They are the "Power needed to maintain this world" and reside in all places and things in this world. Normally they cannot be perceived even by maguses, and only those who love the very world itself or are on a mission to destroy the very world itself can perceive them. A world low in elementals is on its way to ruin, and its very land as well as the world itself will be headed for death. How anastasia l. Was able to construct a physical body of this world and how the demon lord knight, astral trinity, was able to possess his own will and move around, was all through the Power of Elementals. — (Elementals) Glossary #35.
Click to expand...
—
Some humans study magic. Magic is the opposite of the elements that make up the world.
Feats.
However, some humans opposed the principles of the world and learned “magic”. “Magic” is the exact opposite from the elements that make up the world.
Click to expand...

Magic itself is a fundamental aspect for humans because it is magic that maintains human existence, without magic humans would die, disappear or lose control.

Magic also shows the level of energy that can destroy concepts in the world.
Feats.
Magic demonstrates a level of energy that will break the "Concepts" that exist in the world. — (Spells and Magic) Glossary #31.
Click to expand...
Magus must discover and research themes related to their Archives, and harness that power through their magic. It all begins and ends there.
—

In the past, I have done a CRT on Last Crest. In short, Last Crest is the Ultimate Magic that exists for each of the seven fields of magic or the Trinity Seven.

Anna, who is a spirit user, can reach the level of Trinity Seven of Luxuria, which allows her to use the Last Crest.

This implies that Spirits and Magic in T7 are intertwined.
—

Okay, now we get to the opposite/negation part. So far, the only spirit user shown is Anna, so I will take Anna as an example.

So, previously I explained above that Spirit and Magic are interrelated, because Anna, a spirits user, can use Last Crest which is magic.

We know that Anna is a Luxuria Archive user, the essence of the Luxuria archive itself is related to the birth of life and the existence of soul.

Anna is a user of the Terminus theme, which deals with souls, and she even has a secret soul technique.
Feats.
A secret soul technique possessed by anastasia, the saint of terminus. Whoever possesses this power will never die and will be reincarnated as the same entity, with their thoughts and memories intact, into a new world. However, their body will be adapted to that world, so it is not necessarily an identical copy. If anastasia uses this secret art on another person, she herself will become trapped in the prison of some dimension for all eternity. However, she was determined from the start to use it for those she cares about. — (Reincarnation) Glossary #89.
Click to expand...

Abyss is the same as Anna, both have Archive Luxuria, except that Abyss is a Magic user instead of Spirit, Magic Vanitas is the negation of soul and life, it is the concept of death and destruction that will reduce all creation to nothing.

Conclusion:
- The Thema and Archives are merely a medium for magus to harness the power from there through their magic.

- Spirit and Magic are forces that can sustain one's existence, and are conceptual and fundamental.

- Last Crest, which is that "Magic" can be used by "spirit power", implies that Spirit and Magic are intertwined.

- Spirit and Magic are stated to be opposites, and even the Magic Abyss is the negation of Anna's power.
 
The "interwined part"

Interwined in the sense of duality is not just connected, but one define the other and one cannot exist if the other not. I failed to see that here

If you can prove spirit and magic are one system of abstraction, also can be used interchangeably to each other like spirit can used magic and magic can use spirit power. Yeah it duality

It say "negation" looks promising
 
Fixxed said:
If you can prove spirit and magic are one system of abstraction, also can be used interchangeably to each other like spirit can used magic and magic can use spirit power. Yeah it duality
Click to expand...
Yes, Spirit is abstract (Type 2 Concept), as it cannot be seen by normal magus.

The only thing that can be seen by the naked eye is the power technique that Anna uses.

Also, I think it can be like this, because basically Anna uses Spirit as her power, but also her spirit power can use Last Crest which is basic as magic.

But Anna's power is also called magic, and she was also declared a magic user.
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
Okay, now we get to the opposite/negation part. So far, the only spirit user shown is Anna, so I will take Anna as an example.

So, previously I explained above that Spirit and Magic are interrelated, because Anna, a spirits user, can use Last Crest which is magic.

We know that Anna is a Luxuria Archive user, the essence of the Luxuria archive itself is related to the birth of life and the existence of soul.

Anna is a user of the Terminus theme, which deals with souls, and she even has a secret soul technique.
Click to expand...
I don't see what makes magic and spirit is the opposite and negation of each other.

Rendynoc0unter said:
Abyss is the same as Anna, both have Archive Luxuria, except that Abyss is a Magic user instead of Spirit, Magic Vanitas is the negation of soul and life, it is the concept of death and destruction that will reduce all creation to nothing.
Click to expand...
I can see this.

Rendynoc0unter said:
- Spirit and Magic are stated to be opposites, and even the Magic Abyss is the negation of Anna's power.
Click to expand...
I don't see scan where it says that magic and spirit the opposite of each other.

There's also the lack of nature and type for the duality.
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
I don't see what makes magic and spirit is the opposite and negation of each other.
Click to expand...
Rendynoc0unter said:
We know that Anna is a Luxuria Archive user, the essence of the Luxuria archive itself is related to the birth of life and the existence of soul.

Anna is a user of the Terminus theme, which deals with souls, and she even has a secret soul technique.
Click to expand...
Rendynoc0unter said:
Abyss is the same as Anna, both have Archive Luxuria, except that Abyss is a Magic user instead of Spirit, Magic Vanitas is the negation of soul and life, it is the concept of death and destruction that will reduce all creation to nothing.
Click to expand...



Rakih_Elyan said:
I don't see scan where it says that magic and spirit the opposite
Click to expand...
Rendynoc0unter said:
Magic is the opposite of the elements that make up the world.
Click to expand...
 
Magic is the opposite of the elements that make up the world.
Feats.
However, some humans opposed the principles of the world and learned “magic”. “Magic” is the exact opposite from the elements that make up the world.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Do you have a reference for this?
 
I hope there are staff evaluating this thread, and if this thread is approved, then in the near future I will make a crt about TD, as well as add some new profiles.
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
Spirits or Elements are the source of the power that make up the world. Not only life-giving, Fire Spirits can also serve as energy activators, but are also responsible for burning things to ashes.

And they are the power needed to sustain the world, and exist in all places and things in the world. A world without Spirits is heading towards destruction, and only someone who is loved by Spirits or who is on a mission to destroy the world, can sense and see Spirits. Anna is also a Spirit user.

—
Some humans study magic. Magic is the opposite of the elements that make up the world.


Magic itself is a fundamental aspect for humans because it is magic that maintains human existence, without magic humans would die, disappear or lose control.

Magic also shows the level of energy that can destroy concepts in the world.

Magus must discover and research themes related to their Archives, and harness that power through their magic. It all begins and ends there.
—

In the past, I have done a CRT on Last Crest. In short, Last Crest is the Ultimate Magic that exists for each of the seven fields of magic or the Trinity Seven.

Anna, who is a spirit user, can reach the level of Trinity Seven of Luxuria, which allows her to use the Last Crest.

This implies that Spirits and Magic in T7 are intertwined.
—

Okay, now we get to the opposite/negation part. So far, the only spirit user shown is Anna, so I will take Anna as an example.

So, previously I explained above that Spirit and Magic are interrelated, because Anna, a spirits user, can use Last Crest which is magic.

We know that Anna is a Luxuria Archive user, the essence of the Luxuria archive itself is related to the birth of life and the existence of soul.

Anna is a user of the Terminus theme, which deals with souls, and she even has a secret soul technique.


Abyss is the same as Anna, both have Archive Luxuria, except that Abyss is a Magic user instead of Spirit, Magic Vanitas is the negation of soul and life, it is the concept of death and destruction that will reduce all creation to nothing.

Conclusion:
- The Thema and Archives are merely a medium for magus to harness the power from there through their magic.

- Spirit and Magic are forces that can sustain one's existence, and are conceptual and fundamental.

- Last Crest, which is that "Magic" can be used by "spirit power", implies that Spirit and Magic are intertwined.

- Spirit and Magic are stated to be opposites, and even the Magic Abyss is the negation of Anna's power.
Click to expand...
Perfect i agree
 
What changes do you want to make based on this discussion thread, more specifically?

Also, I am constantly busy with wiki and community management tasks, so it is better if you ask a few thread moderators for help. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
What changes do you want to make based on this discussion thread, more specifically?

Also, I am constantly busy with wiki and community management tasks, so it is better if you ask a few thread moderators for help. 🙏
Click to expand...
I would like to add Duality in Trinity Seven.

I have contacted the Thread Moderators, but they only look at this thread, and do not provide input.
 
Antvasima said:
What changes do you want to make based on this discussion thread, more specifically?

Also, I am constantly busy with wiki and community management tasks, so it is better if you ask a few thread moderators for help. 🙏
Click to expand...
This thread is not visited by Thread Moderators at all, can you call some thread mods and knowledgeable members?
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
what do you think about this thread?
Click to expand...
As long as humans live in the world of humans, they are bound to the "principles of the world". They cannot move things without their hands, neither can they lit a fire without tools. They cannot fly through the air without arrangements and it is absolutely impossible to move through time. Since the dawn of history, in other words, since the birth of humanity, their intelligence has solved countless mysteries and overcome many of the endless "impossibilities". Yet, there are still a lot of things humans are not capable of. Yes, as long as they are bound to the "principles of the world", humans are only allowed to live within these principles. However, some humans opposed the principles of the world and learned "magic". "Magic" is the exact opposite from the elements that make up the world. It can bring phenomena or beings into existence that normally would never exist. Everything commonly known as devils, monsters or apparitions are a product of "magic". They continued to study techniques to move things without their hands for a vertiginous long time. They worked out a method to lit fire without tools from a forbidden technique and did not hesitate to adopt a skill of the different dimension to fly through the air...

(Volume 1, Prologue)
Click to expand...
As I understand it, Magic is contrary to the laws of the world created by Spirits and is contrary to the operation of these laws, which is why it is emphasized that Spirit and Magic are opposites.
Rendynoc0unter said:
Magic itself is a fundamental aspect for humans because it is magic that maintains human existence, without magic humans would die, disappear or lose control
Click to expand...
Rendynoc0unter said:
Spirits or Elements are the source of the power that make up the world. Not only life-giving, Fire Spirits can also serve as energy activators, but are also responsible for burning things to ashes.

And they are the power needed to sustain the world, and exist in all places and things in the world. A world without Spirits is heading towards destruction, and only someone who is loved by Spirits or who is on a mission to destroy the world, can sense and see Spirits. Anna is also a Spirit user.
Click to expand...
When the statements here are examined together, it seems that both Magic and Spirits actually have a similar nature, but Magic is related to people and Spirits are related to the World.
Rendynoc0unter said:
Anna, who is a spirit user, can reach the level of Trinity Seven of Luxuria, which allows her to use the Last Crest.
Click to expand...
Rendynoc0unter said:
Abyss is the same as Anna, both have Archive Luxuria, except that Abyss is a Magic user instead of Spirit, Magic Vanitas is the negation of soul and life, it is the concept of death and destruction that will reduce all creation to nothing.
Click to expand...
Here it is said that Archive Luxuria contains 2 opposing powers, Magic Vanitas and Last Crest.

As a result, we see that two forces (Spirit and Magic), which do not seem to be opposite to each other but just have different qualities, exist only in Archive Luxuria as completely opposite forces so I think we need more information about Archive Luxuria's abilities.

Do other magics within Archive Luxuria share the same nature as Magic Vanitas, or do they have life-based powers similar to Spirits, the basic element of humans?
 
Last edited:
CodeCCLL said:
As I understand it, Magic is contrary to the laws of the world created by Spirits and is contrary to the operation of these laws, which is why it is emphasized that Spirit and Magic are opposites.
Click to expand...
Yeahh, then??

CodeCCLL said:
When the statements here are examined together, it seems that both Magic and Spirits actually have a similar nature, but Magic is related to people and Spirits are related to the World.
Click to expand...
CodeCCLL said:
Here it is said that Archive Luxuria contains 2 opposing powers, Magic Vanitas and Last Crest.

As a result, we see that two forces (Spirit and Magic), which do not seem to be opposite to each other but just have different qualities, exist only in Archive Luxuria as completely opposite forces so I think we need more information about Archive Luxuria's abilities.
Click to expand...
Yes, one of the Archives, the Luxuria Archive, contains Last Crest, except that Last Crest here is Ultimate Magic, while Anna is a Spirit user, and can reach the Last Crest level that allows her to use this ability. Even she, who is declared as a Spirit user, is also declared as a magic user.

This implies that Magic & Spirit are intertwined with each other.

Thema Vanitas (Magic Vanitas) and Thema Demise (Magic Demise) originated from Archice Luxuria, which turned out to be contradictory to each other.

For example, Vanitas negates the soul and life as it is the concept of destruction & death, whereas Demise, relates to the soul as well as life. This already proves that the essence of these two things are contradictory.

To put it simply:
Archives -> (Magic - Spirit).


CodeCCLL said:
Do other magics within Archive Luxuria share the same nature as Magic Vanitas, or do they have life-based powers similar to Spirits, the basic element of humans?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, this series does not explain such things explicitly.
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
Yeahh, then??
Click to expand...
So, given the context, mentioned about "magic and spirit" as opposed to each other is not a statement that supports duality.
Rendynoc0unter said:
Yes, one of the Archives, the Luxuria Archive, contains Last Crest, except that Last Crest here is Ultimate Magic, while Anna is a Spirit user, and can reach the Last Crest level that allows her to use this ability. Even she, who is declared as a Spirit user, is also declared as a magic user.

This implies that Magic & Spirit are intertwined with each other.

Thema Vanitas (Magic Vanitas) and Thema Demise (Magic Demise) originated from Archice Luxuria, which turned out to be contradictory to each other.

For example, Vanitas negates the soul and life as it is the concept of destruction & death, whereas Demise, relates to the soul as well as life. This already proves that the essence of these two things are contradictory.

To put it simply:
Archives -> (Magic - Spirit).
Click to expand...
Magic Vanitas (death and destruction) and Ultimate Magic Last Crest (soul and life) in the Luxuria Archive, both of which are already in the Luxuria Archive, and Magic Demise has similar qualities to Last Crest and is also a type of magic like Magic Vanitas (sharing the same nature as Last Credit), Since magic contains both qualities such as spirit and life and qualities such as death and destruction (this is supported by the fact that magic is a power that people use to sustain their lives), it cannot be said that "magic" and "spirit" are in a duality, since magic already contains opposite qualities such as (spirit & life, death & destruction).

So, unless I'm misunderstanding something, all we are left with is that magic has opposite qualities and that these different types of magic are contained within the Luxuria Archive.
 
CodeCCLL said:
So, given the context, mentioned about "magic and spirit" as opposed to each other is not a statement that supports duality.
Click to expand...
negation
vsbattles.com

Revision about Duality

So basically we accept something as duality if those nature is like logical duality, or A and not A nature. We also accept something as duality if it have it negation or absence of that The problem is, being negation of something are literally just being nonexistence, it not substance to begin...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
CodeCCLL said:
So, given the context, mentioned about "magic and spirit" as opposed to each other is not a statement that supports duality.
Click to expand...
CodeCCLL said:
So, unless I'm misunderstanding something, all we are left with is that magic has opposite qualities and that these different types of magic are contained within the Luxuria Archive.
Click to expand...
I don't think I understand this part. Being declared as "opposite" does not qualify? even if you give additional feats such as negation?. Btw, Magic transcends the laws of the world, it is also outside the laws of the world, is that not enough too?

CodeCCLL said:
Magic Vanitas (death and destruction) and Ultimate Magic Last Crest (soul and life) in the Luxuria Archive, both of which are already in the Luxuria Archive, and Magic Demise has similar qualities to Last Crest and is also a type of magic like Magic Vanitas (sharing the same nature as Last Credit), Since magic contains both qualities such as spirit and life and qualities such as death and destruction (this is supported by the fact that magic is a power that people use to sustain their lives), it cannot be said that "magic" and "spirit" are in a duality, since magic already contains opposite qualities such as (spirit & life, death & destruction).
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstood a little bit. The correct ones are:

Magic Vanitas (Death & Destruction) & Magic Demise (Soul & Life).

I brought up Last Crest, because I think Anna who is a Spirit (Demise) user is also declared as a Magic user, which is why I used the name "Magic Demise" here. Because in my opinion, Spirit and Magic are related to each other.

Yes, it may not be completely wrong, Magic may indeed contain life-like properties because Magic can maintain the existence of Magus, but Spirit also has such properties, where Spirit can maintain Anna's existence.
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
I don't think I understand this part. Being declared as "opposite" does not qualify? even if you give additional feats such as negation?
Click to expand...
No, I'm not talking about whether it's enough or not (seems enough to me), I'm just looking for some answers about the exact place of duality in the verse because if there are characters that scale to have Transduality/Nonduality, they should scale correctly.
Rendynoc0unter said:
I think you misunderstood a little bit. The correct ones are:

Magic Vanitas (Death & Destruction) & Magic Demise (Soul & Life).

I brought up Last Crest, because I think Anna who is a Spirit (Demise) user is also declared as a Magic user, which is why I used the name "Magic Demise" here.
Click to expand...
I understand.
Rendynoc0unter said:
Yes, it may not be completely wrong, Magic may indeed contain life-like properties because Magic can maintain the existence of Magus, but Spirit also has such properties, where Spirit can maintain Anna's existence.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, there is no duality between Spirit and Magic here, because Magic already includes the qualities of Spirit (which sustains the World) & Life, as well as the qualities of Destruction and Death, so Magic itself contains dualities and this should be expressed in the descriptions like this So, if the proposals are changed in this direction, I agree.
 
CodeCCLL said:
because Magic already includes the qualities of Spirit (which sustains the World)
Click to expand...
Umm, why do you say magic includes spirits?

I previously claimed that the two things are only interconnected.
CodeCCLL said:
I'm just looking for some answers about the exact place of duality in the verse because if there are characters that scale to have Transduality/Nonduality, they should scale correctly.
Click to expand...
Beings who exist in the Akashic Realm (the pinnacle of cosmology, the lower realms are merely imitations of the higher realms, places beyond space, time, dimensions) and also predate creation, will gain this ability.

Edit: Magic & Spirits are under the Akashic (Akashic and the beings within it transcend the lower realms)
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
Umm, why do you say magic includes spirits?

I previously claimed that the two things are only interconnected.
Click to expand...
It's probably not true to say that it directly involves sprits, but Ultimate Magic Last Crest includes the building power of spirits (it can called be genesis) and life qualities, but its opposite magic, Magic Vanitas, contains the destruction and death quilities. Therefore, it seems most logical that the Luxuria Archive would include the duality created by these types of magic.
Rendynoc0unter said:
Umm, why do you say magic includes spirits?

I previously claimed that the two things are only interconnected.

Beings who exist in the Akashic Realm (the pinnacle of cosmology, the lower realms are merely imitations of the higher realms, places beyond space, time, dimensions) and also predate creation, will gain this ability.
Click to expand...
Yes, this type of scaling makes sense.
 
CodeCCLL said:
Magic Vanitas, contains the destruction and death quilities. Therefore, it seems most logical that the Luxuria Archive would include the duality created by these types of magic.
Click to expand...
btw, does Magic become General Nonduality because it occupies A & not A simultaneously? or am I wrong?
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
btw, does Magic become General Nonduality because it occupies A & not A simultaneously? or am I wrong?
Click to expand...
No, what you are talking about is the conditions of being Nonduality, not the types.
General Nonduality Part said:
Characters existing in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within an entire level of reality in a way that makes them occupy both or neither state of the dualities in question.
Click to expand...
From what I've seen so far, this is just Type 1, not Type 2.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Grabbing_dragon
Trinity seven low 1C Worlds simple
Replies
0
Views
495
Grabbing_dragon
Grabbing_dragon
Grabbing_dragon
Fixing some trinity seven stuff,magus Physiology because the scans are dead and outdated
Replies
21
Views
2K
Theglassman12
Theglassman12
Delta333
Arata's abilities revision
Replies
30
Views
2K
Theglassman12
Theglassman12
Grabbing_dragon
  • Locked
Trinity seven acausality type 5 according to the new standards
Replies
29
Views
2K
Grabbing_dragon
Grabbing_dragon
Delta333
Trinity Seven upgrade
2
Replies
42
Views
6K
Rendynoc0unter
Rendynoc0unter
Back
Top