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Muscular mass and Striking Strength

Ser_Hakim_Dayne

Ser_Hakim_Dayne

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I recently had a debate with a moderator about character tier in A Song of Ice and Fire, and then things required for a character to be stronger than another character, and during that debate I learned that this wiki does not accept that a character is superior to another character just based on muscle mass, i.e. a fighter with a large muscle mass is physically stronger than another fighter with less muscle mass.

Why ? Mass obviously gives force, bigger muscle is stronger muscle. A fighter trained with bigger muscles should be stronger (in strength) than another fighter trained with less muscles by default (unless opposite stated of course). Could someone enlighten me on this point?
 
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To further elaborate, this is in relation to characters that have no in-verse feats or statements actually comparing them.
 
idk but if i had to guess it's probably the fictional differences between people who are buff and slim. IRL yes, someone more buff would be > someone who is slim, however in fiction that rule is broken even in realistic pieces of fiction.
An example in fiction would be Hulk being equal to Thor or Luffy beating Kaido.
 
Arceus0x said:
idk but if i had to guess it's probably the fictional differences between people who are buff and slim. IRL yes, someone more buff would be > someone who is slim, however in fiction that rule is broken even in realistic pieces of fiction.
An example in fiction would be Hulk being equal to Thor or Luffy beating Kaido.
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Yes in fiction there is this kind of thing, but I don't see why this rule should apply to all verses by default, especially when nothing is said about it. Especially as characters can beat other characters physically stronger than them just with skill or speed, strength is not everything in a fight, in fiction.

If a slim character succeeds in defeating a character with a higher muscle mass, he should not have a strength that equals that of his opponent by default (unless it is directly stated).
 
It's a case-by-case thing. Having more muscle mass doesn't automatically mean you scale above a relatively skinnier dude with 3-A feats if you have no feats of fighting on par with said dude.
 
KLOL506 said:
Having more muscle mass doesn't automatically mean you scale above a relatively skinnier dude with 3-A feats if you have no feats of fighting on par with said dude.
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If the character is so powerful yes it is rather logical
 
Character don't scale just because of muscles mass or being a bigger person.

Even in real life someone who is heavily built cannot punch has hard as someone who has a much smaller build.

A body builder's punch isn't on par with a pro boxer's punch. Muscle mass doesn't determine punching strength, speed/technique are far more important. Muscles gain by weight lifting aren't comparable to someone who's trained in punching like a pro boxer. This is far more complicated, but I'm speaking in simple terms.

And fiction takes this beyond the logical extremes, since this is a fictional story and the rules can be whatever the author wants it to be.

Smaller characters being physical stronger than bigger characters, despite not having any super powers is very common in fiction. We don't assume a smaller character is stronger or weaker than a bigger character or vice versa. Instead we scale people to their own feats and scaling.
 
TheRustyOne said:
A body builder's punch isn't on par with a pro boxer's punch. Muscle mass doesn't determine punching strength, speed/technique are far more important. Muscles gain by weight lifting aren't comparable to someone who's trained in punching like a pro boxer.
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Yes, but in my question I am talking about a trained fighter, not just a body builder or a weightlifter:

"a fighter with a large muscle mass is physically stronger than another fighter with less muscle mass."

In addition to having speed and technique, the fighter also has muscle mass, which is clearly an advantage when it comes to striking strength/attack potency. This should also apply for Lifting Strength, well depending on the characters, as usual..

TheRustyOne said:
And fiction takes this beyond the logical extremes, since this is a fictional story and the rules can be whatever the author wants it to be.
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Yes, again I know. I know that some characters with smaller muscles can be more equal or stronger than others with bigger ones, when there is evidence. But I don't see why it should be the case by default when there is a fight between a less muscular character and a bigger one. Whether the smaller character wins or loses it should by default just downscaling to the bigger ones if there is no evidence to the contrary by statements, because skill and speed also count in a fight, they don't need to have a strength greater than or equal to the larger opponent to defeat him
 
Why is this being bumped? Hasn't the question been answered?
 
KLOL506 said:
The "verse treats it that way" part literally falls under case-by-case basis.
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Dread and you say case by case (and I agree with you), Rusty and Arceus say no , and LordTracer says he agrees with you and Rusty. Do we take it case by case?
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Dread and you say case by case (and I agree with you), Rusty and Arceus say no , and LordTracer says he agrees with you and Rusty. Do we take it case by case?
Click to expand...
Yes. That is indeed how you take it.

1. The verse must treat it that way first.

2. There must be clear feats of said muscular dude trumping over the skinnier dude with said feats and tiers in question.

Basic powerscaling and story details matter here.
 
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