Bleach Big Calc problems

[Mommyleona]

This is regarding Reiokyu-Seireitei Distance, it has quite some issues

Before going into it, some things to keep in mind, Soul Society is stated to parallel the World of the Living, and is shown to clearly have space (both things are accepted as far as I'm aware, but I wanted to give additional context)
Issue 1
The currently used statement does not compare Grimmjow's speed to that of a lightning, but merely compares the way Grimmjow's body is moving, how lightning makes zigzags etc. Nothing says he is as fast or faster.
Issue 2
Ichigo himself is shown to basically free fall the entire distance, not run like Grimmjow did, so there is no reason to assume he would be moving at comparable speed even if the statement was usable
Issue 3
The clouds are very clearly and consistently visible not that far below the Soul King Palace, with the sky color also showing us that the Royal Palace is still inside the planet, while the currently calculated distance (14,652,000 km) puts it FAR into outer space, almost 10% of the way to the Sun
Which then raises another issue
Issue 4
Shinigami can't survive, nor breathe in space, with the distance putting it ridiculously high into space as said above, taking a week down the stairs with shunpo would mean they'd be traveling most of the time without air
Issue 5
The walls from the Soul King Palace can fall to Seireitei in a relatively short timeframe
In the same vein, Toshiro is concerned about Gerard falling down to Seireitei and destroying it (Even though at that distance no gravity should affect Gerard, and even if it somehow did, it would take years for him to reach the Seireitei)
(Addition by Ghostimuscrime) Lille after his death turns into pieces and they all fall down to Seireitei in a rather short timeframe too
Issue 6
The currently used timeframe no longer exists in the anime (primary canon)

Conclusion
The calc should be removed/replaced
My suggestion is to replace the distance with the height of the Stratosphere (50km), because of the sky color and it being above most clouds

Options
Using visuals and accounting for the mentioned in the OP issues:
50km (Stratosphere) - 100km (Kármán line)
Agree: @ElJoaki5 (50km, but leans towards the stairs option)
Disagree:

Using the stairs and the week timeframe:
New calc (and the Ap/Ls recalc)
Agree: @ElJoaki5, @M3X_2.0 (fine with either), @Dalesean027 (fine with either)
Disagree:

Using 9 or 12 hours with the speed of sound:
Agree: @M3X_2.0 (fine with either), @Dalesean027 (fine with either)
Disagree: @ElJoaki5

Spoiler: List of the calcs that will be affected

Yhwach's Darkness Speed - 4.89c (FTL)
Mimihagi's Speed - 4.89c (FTL)
Auswahlen Speed - 19.55c (FTL+)
Yhwach lifts the Wandenreich - 7.41743399999999993e+25 kg (Class Z)

 

[Giannysmag]

Great work and I obviously agree, personally I think using the Stratosphere makes the most sense but I'll see what other people will say

 

[Qurbonboev]

Could you provide list of calcs that would be affected by this change?

 

[Saqphire]

Obvious agree

 

[Mommyleona]

Could you provide list of calcs that would be affected by this change?

Added the list to the op, hope I didn't miss anything

 

[ElJoaki5]

The concerns brought up here make sense to me, id personally lean towards the 50 km

 

[GG55HH]

Agree and Following

 

[Qurbonboev]

Added the list to the op, hope I didn't miss anything

If I am not mistaken without those calcs, best speed feats are this and this, isn't?
That's pretty rough(thought multipliers would soften the fall).
Let's see what sups can cook

 

[ItsMeat]

God, why can't you wait til cour 4 when we most definetely will have a cosmology blog? Most of your problems stem from the wrong assumption that Soul Society is a planet, but that's explicitly not the case

And yes, it(the Soul Society dimension) is parallel to the World of the Living, not to Earth. There are 0 statements about the ground of the Soul Society being equal to Earth

 

[Mommyleona]

God, why can't you wait til cour 4 when we most definetely will have a cosmology blog? Most of your problems stem from the wrong assumption that Soul Society is a planet, but that's explicitly not the case

And yes, it(the Soul Society dimension) is parallel to the World of the Living, not to Earth. There are 0 statements about the ground of the Soul Society being equal to Earth

This scan does not prove anything. I did not say SS is a planet, but that Seireitei and the stuff around is clearly on a planet, with clear space beyond it

 

[ItsMeat]

This scan does not prove anything. I did not say SS is a planet, but that Seireitei and the stuff around is clearly on a planet, with clear space beyond it

Who said it must be a planet though? Or how do you know that planet's size? This "debunk" is based on even more assumptions than the original calc

 

[Mommyleona]

Who said it must be a planet though? Or how do you know that planet's size? This "debunk" is based on even more assumptions than the original calc

Because it's stated to parallel the world of the living... you just said that yourself

 

[PizzaDante67]

So basically you‘re saying that it would take around a week WITH shunpo to travel those 50 km? They might be slower than i am bruh

Also, ichigo was shown to propel himself down. You think he‘d just let himself free fall when the entire seireitei and his friends are in danger?

 

[Mommyleona]

So basically you‘re saying that it would take around a week WITH shunpo to travel those 50 km? They might be slower than i am bruh

down the stairs, not in a straight line, with more than likely breaks and sleep needed too

 

[PizzaDante67]

down the stairs, not in a straight line, with more than likely breaks and sleep needed too

it would still not take that long to travel. Like even if you take 30 min breaks every 2 hours just walking down, it would still not take a week.

 

[PizzaDante67]

Ah and what was the accepted time frame ichigo took to reach the seireitei? Because if its anything above 6 minutes, the 50km proposal makes no sense even if ichigo was free falling

 

[Saqphire]

Using Ghost’s formula to determine the new speed from a singular value as well as the 50km basis for the new one, these would be the new speeds

• Mimihagi/Yhwach: 4.89 / (14652000 / 50) = 0.0000167c or ~5004 m/s or Mach 14.58 (Hypersonic)
• Auswählen: 19.55 / (14652000 / 50) = 0.00006671444c or ~20000.486 m/s or Mach 58.31 (High Hypersonic+)

Yeah…

 

[ItsMeat]

Because it's stated to parallel the world of the living... you just said that yourself

Yes, World of The Living, not Earth. The Soul Society and World of The Living dimensions are parallel. This says nothing about the ground of Soul Society and Earth.

I can tell you the ground of Soul Society is just a huge flat place as the day-night cycle is in the same stage everywhere, for example.

With different laws, so using Earth's atmosphere for this is kinda ridiculous.

That's not even mentioning the fact that Ichigo did repeatedly use Shunpo. I'm also pretty confident Grimmjow does have lightning speed statements in CFYOW.

 

[Nierre]

the Bleachening....

following

 

[Mommyleona]

Yes, World of The Living, not Earth. The Soul Society and World of The Living dimensions are parallel. This says nothing about the ground of Soul Society and Earth.

It does... if it parallels it, it means there are also planets, stars, etc, which we see as I already posted above

I'm also pretty confident Grimmjow does have lightning speed statements in CFYOW.

I had linked the single statement about any comparisons between Grimmjow and lightning that I could find in CFYOW, and explained why it's not usable

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah I'm sorry but the clouds are a hilarious giveaway that the distance is blatantly wrong…
And the fact they canonically can't survive even a moment in space is just a cherry on top. It's painfully obvious it's not millions of kilometers into space

I'm not sure I agree with 50km as the final value but it works as a bare minimum replacement. But honestly ANYTHING is better than the goofy 14 million kilometers mark given the blatant proximity of clouds.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

How the heck did the 14mill km even pass? That's just so blatantly wrong narratively, logically and visually.

Agree with OP.

 

[EnchantingGgg]

Just a question, if we assume the SKP is at the edge of the atmosphere, with freefall wouldn’t it take like 5 minutes to fall?

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

Yeah I'm sorry but the clouds are a hilarious giveaway that the distance is blatantly wrong…
And the fact they canonically can't survive even a moment in space is just a cherry on top. It's painfully obvious it's not millions of kilometers into space

I'm not sure I agree with 50km as the final value but it works as a bare minimum replacement. But honestly ANYTHING is better than the goofy 14 million kilometers mark given the blatant proximity of clouds.

Just how big is the planet society according to their calc ?

 

[PizzaDante67]

i dunno if i remember it correctly but wasn’t the Royal palace said to be inside its own dimension? Wouldn’t that pretty much make the argument of the clouds invalid?

 

[Saqphire]

Just how big is the planet society according to their calc ?

With their logic it’d be like galaxy sized or something… still smaller than a certain verse’s planet size

 

[ItsMeat]

It does... if it parallels it, it means there are also planets, stars, etc, which we see as I already posted above

Yet, it does not say anything exactly about what they contain and, as already explained, treating Soul Society's ground as a planet, moreover, as a planet similar to Earth is ridiculous.

I had linked the single statement about any comparisons between Grimmjow and lightning that I could find in CFYOW, and explained why it's not usable

Indeed you linked, I will go search the official version if I can find it though.

 

[ItsMeat]

i dunno if i remember it correctly but wasn’t the Royal palace said to be inside its own dimension? Wouldn’t that pretty much make the argument of the clouds invalid?

Yes, it is

 

[Saqphire]

i dunno if i remember it correctly but wasn’t the Royal palace said to be inside its own dimension? Wouldn’t that pretty much make the argument of the clouds invalid?

That statement is not literal, or atleast not literal to the point that it means a separate dimension.

You can literally access the palace without requiring some sort of portal or anything implying a dimensional barrier, such ways being a cannon or simply ascending upwards with Reiatsu or down to the Seireitei by falling. In fact, all of the calcs rely on the premise that it is accessible by physical distance

 

[PizzaDante67]

That statement is not literal, or atleast not literal to the point that it means a separate dimension.

You can literally access the palace without requiring some sort of portal or anything implying a dimensional barrier, such ways being a cannon or simply ascending upwards with Reiatsu or down to the Seireitei by falling

So the oken is just irrelevant and Aizen could have entered whenever he wants? Let‘s downgrade his intelligence to Below Average.

 

[Mbpoops]

Agree with the op

 

[ItsMeat]

That statement is not literal, or atleast not literal to the point that it means a separate dimension.

You can literally access the palace without requiring some sort of portal or anything implying a dimensional barrier, such ways being a cannon or simply ascending upwards with Reiatsu or down to the Seireitei by falling

You still need Ōken to pass through the barriers. Also, you can technically go there by flying, the barriers are what prevents you to enter and that's where you need Ōken. Nothing really says the barriers can't be dimensional in nature, similar to Yukio's dimensions, for example.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

That statement is not literal, or atleast not literal to the point that it means a separate dimension.

You can literally access the palace without requiring some sort of portal or anything implying a dimensional barrier, such ways being a cannon or simply ascending upwards with Reiatsu or down to the Seireitei by falling. In fact, all of the calcs rely on the premise that it is accessible by physical distance

You can only do that after the membrane is opened (that's why Yhwach waited until Ichigo left the Royal Palace before trying to attack it, because the membrane would be open).

 

[ItsMeat]

You can only do that after the membrane is opened (that's why Yhwach waited until Ichigo left the Royal Palace before trying to attack it, because the membrane would be open).

And it opened when Ichigo passed sepcifically because he was wearing clothes made from ōken

 

[DavidTPPM]

So the dimension is located slightly above clouds since when open you can literally just fly in and out of there.

Idk why are yall acting like it being in a dimension stops it from being located in the same atmosphere.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I guess the verse are truly Yanqing victims

 

[Mommyleona]

So the oken is just irrelevant and Aizen could have entered whenever he wants? Let‘s downgrade his intelligence to Below Average.

Oken is needed to bypass the barrier layers protecting the royal palace, saying those are some "dimensional barriers" is a stretch not supported by anything

Also suggesting it's not a physical distance but a separate dimension kinda ruins the point of finding the distance between the 2

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I guess the verse are truly Yanqing victims

 

[ItsMeat]

So the dimension is located slightly above clouds since when open you can literally just fly in and out of there.

Idk why are yall acting like it being in a dimension stops it from being located in the same atmosphere.

I also don't know why you all act as if atmosphere existing at reiokyu is somehow a debunk to the distance between it and the ground considering the ground isn't a planet similar to Earth and we know nothing about its size+it operates on different laws

 

[PizzaDante67]

Overall, i disagree and think we should wait till cour 4 ends.

I also think that 14 million might not be its true distance but 50-80km is an even worse distance. The fact that Ichigo had to travel for several hours to reach the seireitei makes this proposal weird. Even 80km freefalling would take less than 10 minutes to reach the ground.