Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode VI Return of the Threadi

[DaReaperMan]

Nah only energy weapons.

Common misconception, because there are a ton of LS statements for lasers and energy weapons so people kind of just gloss over than and assumes it means blasters as well despite them working completely differently and not actually having any LS statements of their own.

Damnit lmfao

Well, anything regarding those?

 

[Epyriel]

Damnit lmfao

Well, anything regarding those?

If I recall correctly I think there was a feat in a novel where someone goes relative with I-Five’s lasers which are lightspeed, but that might be difficult to calc due to the written format.

The Kenobi calc blocking lasers looks fine at a glance so we will still have at least Relativistic regardless for mid tiers, I was just wondering if there were any other already completed calcs I wasn’t aware of I could reference for consistency.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

 

[Epyriel]

Yep, energy weapons and lasers are LS. Just not regular blasters which instead use tibanna gas as fuel which they then compress into superheated particle bolts or beams.

IIRC even slugthrowers have like a hypersonic statement so blasters should be faster than that, but they don’t have any explicit speed statements of their own.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Yep, energy weapons and lasers are LS. Just not regular blasters which instead use tibanna gas as fuel which they then compress into superheated particle bolts or beams.

IIRC even slugthrowers have like a hypersonic statement so blasters should be faster than that, but they don’t have any explicit speed statements of their own.

Anyway.

Currently blasters are accepted as lightspeed.

So you'll have to make a CRT proposing the removal of that.

 

[Epyriel]

Anyway.

Currently blasters are accepted as lightspeed.

So you'll have to make a CRT proposing the removal of that.

Huh, didn’t know that was on the profile. Yeah I’ll include that in my thread.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I'm going to sleep, so I can wake up and play Darksiders 2 to annoy @DaReaperMan later.

 

[OTG0001]

Yep, energy weapons and lasers are LS. Just not regular blasters which instead use tibanna gas as fuel which they then compress into superheated particle bolts or beams.

IIRC even slugthrowers have like a hypersonic statement so blasters should be faster than that, but they don’t have any explicit speed statements of their own.

Epyriel, what is a blaster again?

you would have to make a transformative leap to say a blaster does not fall under the energy weapon category. No need. If you've read Medstar II there's a explicit statement for blasters being lightspeed.


and no, just because tibanna is fuel does not automatically mean they aren't lightspeed. Fictional verses work on goofy mechanics. If you really wanted to disprove it (which you seem quite adamant about) you should send a explicit statement of blasters being not lightspeed.

 

[Epyriel]

Epyriel, what is a blaster again?

A blaster is a weapon that fires superheated gas off in plasmatic particle bolts.

you would have to make a transformative leap to say a blaster does not fall under the energy weapon category.

Yeah no. You don’t get to redefine blasters as energy weapons when it is convenient. They simply aren’t. They fire physical projectiles, they aren’t pure energy. They aren’t lasers or ion weapons.

No need. If you've read Medstar II there's a explicit statement for blasters being lightspeed.

No there isn’t. The statement just says that Form III has an “emphasis on anticipating and blocking lightspeed energy blasts” - it never explicitly calls blaster bolts energy blasts. Trying to assume that they are is circular logic.

and no, just because tibanna is fuel does not automatically mean they aren't lightspeed. Fictional verses work on goofy mechanics. If you really wanted to disprove it (which you seem quite adamant about) you should send a explicit statement of blasters being not lightspeed.

That is not how the burden of proof works.

But sure, just for the sake of it here is an anti-feat. Luke using a high powered longblaster and firing from like a kilometre away takes a nanosecond for his shot to reach its target. Below the speed of light.

Luke set the thermal detonator aside and aimed his longblaster at the lead figure, then peered through the sniperscope at the purple visage that probably belonged Sarasu Taalon.

…

As Luke was contemplating this, Taalon reached the bottom of the ramp and stopped. He stared out to sea for a long time, and Luke began to worry that the Sith was actually seeing the white cliffs of the distant temple island…

…

Luke pressed the trigger and held it down—then felt his jaw drop as bolts began to ricochet off the High Lord’s palm. It wasn’t the deflection of blasterfire with a bare hand that shocked him—he had fought plenty of Sith capable of that trick. What amazed Luke was the speed with which Taalon had moved. In the nanosecond it had taken the first bolt to cross the distance between them, the High Lord’s hand had risen to deflect it, traveling so fast that the appendage had literally seemed to disappear from one place and reappear in another.

-Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

 

[Legion350]

I'd thought he was still in his teens

Probably because he acts like an immature man-child. Even Anakin who was also immature in RotS, was only 22 in comparison.

Side note, the character ages are interesting overall. Luke Skywalker is the same age [19] in ANH as Anakin in AotC. Luke was the same age as RotS in Empire Strikes Back. Can't believe Obi-Wan was 25 in the Phantom Menace.

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Can't believe Obi-Wan was 25 in the Phantom Menace.

is there a in-universe explanation for WHY Obi-Wan looks like he's in their 80s during ANH,
like ain't no way it took 10+ years for him to look like this

to this

 

[Epyriel]

is there a in-universe explanation for WHY Obi-Wan looks like he's in their 80s during ANH

There kind of is in Legends, where it is noted that the death of the Jedi Order made existing Jedi (who had grew to depend on their mutual connection to the Force supporting each other) age more poorly and weaken thereafter.

As Yoda approaches 900 years old, he is slowed down not by age but by a spirit broken after the destruction of the Jedi Order.

-Star Wars Head-to-Head

Obi-Wan reached out to the Force to find him, but met only the thin stirring of a barren world. It was strange to live in a galaxy now that had no Jedi in it. He hadn't realized that he had once felt a humming presence, alive with the Force-ability of his fellow Jedi. It had fed him, and he hadn't even known it.

-The Last One Standing

Since most, if not all, of the Jedi were no more, that was all the sweeter, though Vader was convinced that Obi-Wan had remained hidden all these years, as had Yoda, assuming the latter had not finally shuffled off into death. Yoda had been very old, after all, and the defeat and deaths of the Jedi could not have helped him age any easier. He could be dead. But it was unwise to make such assumptions about such a powerful Jedi Master.

-Star Wars: Death Star

Still, he (Ben) hated hiding while Jedi after Jedi was killed by agents of the Emperor’s New Order. He heard every scream of death echo in the force, and his heart broke a little more.

-Heir to the Empire Sourcebook

He wasn’t sure if the weakness was in him or if, with the death of every Jedi, the war was leaching some of the Force out the universe.

-Dark Lord Rise of Darth Vader

He had thought of his diminished abilities as a personal failure—owing to the fact that he had lost his faith in the Jedi order, allowed his two Padawans to die, grown thought-bound—when, in fact, it was the Force as the Jedi had known it that had been defeated. The flame extinguished.

-Dark Lord Rise of Darth Vader

The Jedi were hunted down by these deadly Sith knights. With every Jedi death, contact with the Ashla grows weaker, and the force of the Bogan grows more powerful. Now, the Jedi are hidden; but many are still fighting to free the systems from the grip of the Empire...

-The Adventures of the Starkiller, Episode I: The Star Wars

 

[Legion350]

is there a in-universe explanation for WHY Obi-Wan looks like he's in their 80s during ANH,
like ain't no way it took 10+ years for him to look like this

to this

Probably the harsh twin suns as well. It's funny, Alec Guinness ANH Kenobi [63] was slightly closer in age to Obi-Wan when he died in ANH at age 57 than Ewan who was 50 when filming Kenobi.

 

[OTG0001]

A blaster is a weapon that fires superheated gas off in plasmatic particle bolts.


Yeah no. You don’t get to redefine blasters as energy weapons when it is convenient. They simply aren’t. They fire physical projectiles, they aren’t pure energy. They aren’t lasers or ion weapons.


No there isn’t. The statement just says that Form III has an “emphasis on anticipating and blocking lightspeed energy blasts” - it never explicitly calls blaster bolts energy blasts. Trying to assume that they are is circular logic.


That is not how the burden of proof works.

But sure, just for the sake of it here is an anti-feat. Luke using a high powered longblaster and firing from like a kilometre away takes a nanosecond for his shot to reach its target. Below the speed of light.

Only a couple sources affirm this. Even so, it doesn't inherently contradict anything -- nor does it somehow disregard about a hundred sources calling blasters lasers or light based.

Do you realistically think that I-Five's lasers are not blasterfire when they clearly called coherent light, the same description given to blasters? Or that blasters are somehow not under the scope of "energy weapons"? This seems like cherrypicking something that should be obvious and doesn't pose a immediate contradiction, rather than finding actual evidence against the claim. I do await some concrete evidence that it isn't aside from uncorroborated assertions based on word choices.

What do Jedi typically block, in fact, what does Form 3 typically block? Blasters. Not "exotic laser weapons". Why would the statement just be referring to some specialized weapon when the primary use of the form is blaster deflection.

I don't care about the BOP here. This is not a formal discussion. Nobody uses this colloquially.

You are grasping at straws. You have one anti-feat. I have plenty more supporting my claims.


Sources.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Only a couple sources affirm this. Even so, it doesn't inherently contradict anything -- nor does it somehow disregard about a hundred sources calling blasters lasers or light based.

Do you realistically think that I-Five's lasers are not blasterfire when they clearly called coherent light, the same description given to blasters? Or that blasters are somehow not under the scope of "energy weapons"? This seems like cherrypicking something that should be obvious and doesn't pose a immediate contradiction, rather than finding actual evidence against the claim. I do await some concrete evidence that it isn't aside from uncorroborated assertions based on word choices.

What do Jedi typically block, in fact, what does Form 3 typically block? Blasters. Not "exotic laser weapons". Why would the statement just be referring to some specialized weapon when the primary use of the form is blaster deflection.

I don't care about the BOP here. This is not a formal discussion. Nobody uses this colloquially.

You are grasping at straws. You have one anti-feat. I have plenty more supporting my claims.


Sources.

From what you've presented, it's directly stated that Blasters are energy weapons.

 

[Grand_Astartes]

The fact that there is even an argument happening about whether blasters are energy weapons is quite funny. The Blaster page could be updated with extra scans just in case there's any more confusion.

 

[OTG0001]

The fact that there is even an argument happening about whether blasters are energy weapons is quite funny. The Blaster page could be updated with extra scans just in case there's any more confusion.

Lmao, the post reeks of fake fan-ness or just complete dishonesty. There is no way you can make the argument when you have plenty of sources calling it lightspeed or coherent light (the latter and lasers are related, which blasters are also called). The only supposed incompatibility is "plasma", but it's not hard nor is it enough to override the many sources that say otherwise. The gas argument doesn't even work and is even addressed directly in multiple sources.

 

[Epyriel]

Lmao, the post reeks of fake fan-ness or just complete dishonesty.

And people wonder why I tire with dealing with this verse despite it being my favourite.

 

[OTG0001]

And people wonder why I tire with dealing with this verse despite it being my favourite.

I severely question this looking at your recent post, because it's quite explicit that your argument is simply not the case. Do address it though, if you won't want to look like a complete fraud. Don't try shifting the goalposts. Address the scans themselves.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I severely question this looking at your recent post, because it's quite explicit that your argument is simply not the case. Do address it though, if you won't want to look like a complete fraud. Don't try shifting the goalposts. Address the scans themselves.

Cool it. Argue against it, you do not need ad hominem arguments.

 

[OTG0001]

Cool it. Argue against it, you do not need ad hominem arguments.

Reaper, I highly implore you to look at the big "sources" blue link under my recent post. Or maybe you're conveniently ignoring it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Reaper, I highly implore you to look at the big "sources" blue link under my recent post. Or maybe you're conveniently ignoring it.

I do not care what your scans are. Do not include ad hominem into your posts.

 

[Epyriel]

Only a couple sources affirm this. Even so, it doesn't inherently contradict anything -- nor does it somehow disregard about a hundred sources calling blasters lasers or light based.

The projectile giving off light or being infused with light doesn't contradict it being plasma, but it being called plasma or particle beams or bolts definitely contradicts the projectile going at light speed if you know even a little bit of physics. The entire point of light and why it travels so fast is because it is massless.

Do you realistically think that I-Five's lasers are not blasterfire when they clearly called coherent light, the same description given to blasters? Or that blasters are somehow not under the scope of "energy weapons"? This seems like cherrypicking something that should be obvious and doesn't pose a immediate contradiction, rather than finding actual evidence against the claim. I do await some concrete evidence that it isn't aside from uncorroborated assertions based on word choices.

Really? We going to try to call I-Five’s lasers “blasters” now? Despite the fact they are constantly specified as lasers and never called blasters?

What do Jedi typically block, in fact, what does Form 3 typically block? Blasters. Not "exotic laser weapons". Why would the statement just be referring to some specialized weapon when the primary use of the form is blaster deflection.

Laser weapons are neither exotic (turbolasers are literally strapped to like every ship lol) nor the only common energy weapons encountered. Ion weapons are incredibly common.

The best you can say is that some types of blasters are LS off of being pure energy or light (like Ion weapons which are sometimes called blasters). Essentially anything that needs only a power pack for ammo and not physical matter to use as projectiles.

I severely question this looking at your recent post, because it's quite explicit that your argument is simply not the case. Do address it though, if you won't want to look like a complete fraud. Don't try shifting the goalposts. Address the scans themselves.

Got to love being insulted for caring about basic physics. Yep, must be a complete fraud and fake fan.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The Force was terrifically strong here. It swirled and eddied, breathing with a slow pulse, drifting like ancient sands. It was little wonder Yoda had chosen this planet for his refuge—a lesser Jedi would have found themselves immediately overwhelmed by extra physical pressure. It was a testament to Luke’s raw untrained power that he hadn’t been bowled over by it the moment he drew near in his X-wing.

Now that he had joined the Force, Obi Wan sometimes found it difficult to anchor his consciousness to a single place and time. Past, present, and future were all equally available to him, at a remove from simple memory. As he approached the hut an image returned to Obi-Wan that threatened to draw him elsewhere—he heard his own torn and anguished scream as his master, Qui-Gon, was cut down in his duel against Darth Maul.

- From a Certain Point of View: Return of the Jedi

Some interesting things.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The first helps in UES, since places with a lot of Force cause physical pressure, which can be overcome by raw force.

The second is more of a support for what has already been shown with Qui-Gon.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Speaking of which, what kind of power is this Force Spirit consciousness thing? Is it an enhanced form of cosmic consciousness/precognition/retrognation?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Matthew_Schroeder/Star_Wars:_Speed_of_Blasters

Speaking of which, I just got reminded of a old VS Battle Wiki blog too

 

[HammerStrikes219]

“Dozens of lasers shot towards Gallandro at the speed of light, igniting his body in a flaming inferno. And so the fastest gunman in the galaxy met his match.

Source: Essential Guide to Characters

Gripping his blaster, Gallandro smirked. "It's a pity, my little friend, but there's too much at stake here: Solo's the only one I can afford to take alive. I shall make this as easy as I can. Hold still." Drawing a bead on Skynx's head, he stepped forward. Energy discharges flashed from hidden emplacements; even Gallandro's fabulous reflexes gave him no edge against the speed of light. Caught -in a flaring crossfire of defensive weapons, the gunman was hit by a dozen lethal blasts- before he could so much as move. He was the center of an abrupt inferno, then his scorched remains fell to the corridor floor and the smell of incinerated flesh clogged the air.

Source: Han Solo and the Lost Legacy

This is from Firestorm on the blog too

 

[Phsccarvalho]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Matthew_Schroeder/Star_Wars:_Speed_of_Blasters

Speaking of which, I just got reminded of a old VS Battle Wiki blog too

So you'll have to make a CRT proposing the removal of that.

I had already shown the blog.

 

[Grand_Astartes]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Matthew_Schroeder/Star_Wars:_Speed_of_Blasters

Speaking of which, I just got reminded of a old VS Battle Wiki blog too

Just realizing 2017 is soon going to be a decade ago, wtf...

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also this remark from a Legend character.

“ think you are. "Jax glanced down at the weapon, saw his disorted reflection looking back at him from the blade's surface. "Yeah? How do you know th---?"I-Five suddenly whipped up his left hand, index finger extended, and fired a laser beam at Jax. The beam splashed off the ionized fire that suddenly coated the length of the blade, which Jax had automatically raised to block the beam."That's how," I-Five said, "The speed of light is just under three hundred thousand kilometers per second. You are currently seven-point-three meters from me. Your Force-augmented anticipatory reflex action is obviously working fine. You just have to let it."

Source: Star Wars: Coruscant Nights II - Street of Shadows

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I had already shown the blog.

Yeah, but I find it funny we have like a couple of statements there that shouldn’t just been discounted regardless.

 

[Epyriel]

Also this remark from a Legend character.

“ think you are. "Jax glanced down at the weapon, saw his disorted reflection looking back at him from the blade's surface. "Yeah? How do you know th---?"I-Five suddenly whipped up his left hand, index finger extended, and fired a laser beam at Jax. The beam splashed off the ionized fire that suddenly coated the length of the blade, which Jax had automatically raised to block the beam."That's how," I-Five said, "The speed of light is just under three hundred thousand kilometers per second. You are currently seven-point-three meters from me. Your Force-augmented anticipatory reflex action is obviously working fine. You just have to let it."

Source: Star Wars: Coruscant Nights II - Street of Shadows

Yeah that was the feat I was discussing earlier.

I suppose we could try to calc it using the average arm length? Or I suppose the arc length of lifting your forearm.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Speaking of which, what kind of power is this Force Spirit consciousness thing? Is it an enhanced form of cosmic consciousness/precognition/retrognation?

It is from the Living Force or Cosmic Force. The Force should have a multiple aspect of itself IIRC.

Force Ghosts like Qui Gon have to actually learn the technique to become a Force Ghost IIRC.

Hell; we saw that happening in the Attack of the Clone movie where Qui Gon was saying “Anakin Anakin no!!!” when Anakin was slaughtering the Tusken Raiders after his mother’s death IIRC

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It is from the Living Force or Cosmic Force. The Force should have a multiple aspect of itself IIRC.

In the canon, I only remember the Living Force and Cosmic Force being mentioned (and even then, the Living Force creates and energizes the Cosmic Force and vice versa). I don't know how relevant this is; the aspects of the Force aren't as important or developed as they are in Legends with its million aspects.

Anyway, I gathered some scans.

If I do something with it.

If they have anything cool to say, I'll include it.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

In the canon, I only remember the Living Force and Cosmic Force being mentioned (and even then, the Living Force creates and energizes the Cosmic Force and vice versa). I don't know how relevant this is; the aspects of the Force aren't as important or developed as they are in Legends with its million aspects.

Anyway, I gathered some scans.

If I do something with it.

If they have anything cool to say, I'll include it.

Force Ghost are still Force Spirits that retain their own individuality for some time, but it ain’t permanent regardless.

The Sith does have their own version of being a Force Spirit, but still a form of immortality in that regard.


Again, they have to retained their consciousness after becoming one with the Force post death to say the least in case of Light side users.

If memories serve me right, it was more towards Cosmic Force to say the least as they technically need the Force to become a Force Ghost and all so they are bound to the Force either way (Same applies for Dark Side users too in regards to being bound to the Force)

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Force Ghost are still Force Spirits that retain their own individuality for some time, but it ain’t permanent regardless.

Yes, I know...? Why are you repeating what I've already said?

The Sith does have their own version of being a Force Spirit, but still a form of immortality in that regard.

Dude, I'm talking about Canon, not Legends. In canon, Sith can only possess physical objects.

Again, they have to retained their consciousness after becoming one with the Force post death to say the least in case of Light side users.

I already know that... and in the case of Canon, this technique is on the light side.

If memories serve me right, it was more towards Cosmic Force to say the least as they technically need the Force to become a Force Ghost and all so they are bound to the Force either way (Same applies for Dark Side users too in regards to being bound to the Force)

Obviously they're connected to the Force, they merged with the Force itself. I don't understand you.

-

What I initially asked was what kind of P&A it is to have consciousness not anchored to a single place/time.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yes, I know...? Why are you repeating what I've already said?


Dude, I'm talking about Canon, not Legends. In canon, Sith can only possess physical objects.


I already know that... and in the case of Canon, this technique is on the light side.


Obviously they're connected to the Force, they messed with the Force itself. I don't understand you.

-

What I initially asked was what kind of P&A it is to have consciousness not anchored to a single place/time.

I thought you already got your answer here in that question.

Also I probably doing that out of a unfortunate bad habit of repeating myself a few times.


Either way, I think it would qualify as Cosmic Awareness, Soul Manipulation because they qualify as souls too, and ESP (which Force Users are already qualified for, but for Force Spirits either way)

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also I think Astral Projection too

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Either way, I think it would qualify as Cosmic Awareness, Soul Manipulation because they qualify as souls too, and ESP (which Force Users are already qualified for, but for Force Spirits either way)

Ah yes, they already have it. I was thinking of using the "enhanced" form in the future.

You know the Grand Inquisitor? He was sliced by Luke and then regenerated. Could we use that for immortality/regeneration for the Force Spirits? Because, technically, that form of the Grand Inquisitor would be an inferior state to that of a Force Spirit since he never became one with the Force (Vader prevented him from moving forward).

Also I think Astral Projection too

Does this count? Because I think this is only for people who have a physical body.