Grace & recount ended (V (Devil May Cry) vs. William Afton (Games))

[Nonynho]

Welp, every aspect of Remnant (with or without the reforms of the CRT currently ongoing) is resisted with 45+* layers, apparently
So this'll be a battle of haxed people without hax :>

William's at his 2nd key
V doesn't have his summons or anything above 9-B at his disposal.
both are Class 5 LS and considered 9-B

Speed's equal, SBA for the rest

Poetry Cane Guy - @GilverTheProtoAngelo, @noninho, @Ang4I00, @Mister6ame6, @ARandomDude127, @BlackDarkness679, @Jackythejack

80's supposed genius - @Tony_di_bugalu

Incon -

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

following

 

[Nonynho]

i hope i'm not the first one to input and someone hops here before me

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

What the teddy do?

 

[EvoltOz]

So, V is significantly stronger, more skilled, and still has the ability to teleport with his cane. What's Springtrap supposed to do here?

 

[Nonynho]

What's Springtrap supposed to do here?

What the teddy do?

He has a chance because of his higher stamina and the usage of Shadow Freddy for at least distraction
His usual strategy is to jump over his opponents and try tearing them apart, which is very unlikely to work first try, but again, can be tiring

i also think V's edge is enough for him to get a W, but William has a chance here

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

V can parry with his cane and teleport. Has excellent ESP and danger sense, so he isn't getting caught off guard. Can multiple summon swords all around him and teleport them in to enemies in range. Can psuedo-clone teleport substitute jutsu. Has soul hax on magic on top for insta-kill if Opp doesn't resist.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

He has a chance because of his higher stamina and the usage of Shadow Freddy for at least distraction

V always fights multiple variety of enemies at any given moment. So it's not much of an advantage.

His usual strategy is to jump over his opponents and try tearing them apart, which is very unlikely to work first try, but again, can be tiring

V is crafty, he will lay trap with magic blades and/or teleport to catch teddy into his trap.

 

[Nonynho]

Has excellent ESP and danger sense, so he isn't getting caught off guard.

Possibly, if Shadow Freddy is combining the attack with him
He's not particularly known for his speed, which is equalized

Can psuedo-clone teleport substitute jutsu.

Damn, add it to the profile

Has soul hax on magic on top for insta-kill if Opp doesn't resist.

Yeah, Opp doesn't resist specially in the amount of layers it has, but fortunately he doesn't use it so much

V always fights multiple variety of enemies at any given moment. So it's not much of an advantage.

Not alone, so that's why I said it was an edge

V is crafty, he will lay trap with magic blades and/or teleport to catch teddy into his trap.

Fortunately, V doesn't know about his proto-adhd weakness and also Afton is also a smart ass, so they're quite not far from each other there

I count you as a vote for V?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Welp, every aspect of Remnant (with or without the reforms of the CRT currently ongoing) is resisted with infinite layers, apparently
So this'll be a battle of haxed people without hax :>

Infinite layers were rejected, only like 45+ were accepted

 

[Nonynho]

Infinite layers were rejected, only like 45+ were accepted

Well, compared to 0 layers, functionally the same

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Damn, add it to the profile

It's just skill application of his teleport.

I count you as a vote for V?

ye

 

[Nonynho]

ye

Aight, may you please ask more people to come here?

Will add a vote of mine FRA

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

TBF V doesn't really do the soul hax thing, most of the time his summons are the ones who do it because he can't affect demons unless the summons put them in 1 hp

 

[Hawktaro]

isnt this a massive stomp? dude who fights demons vs child killer

 

[Nonynho]

isnt this a massive stomp? dude who fights demons vs child killer

If V used his layered stuff for something yes it would, but only his soul hax has them and he won't use it very often

Also, if Afton manages to get V tired, he wins, so he has a chance

 

[Nonynho]

Bump

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[Nonynho]

Bump

 

[Hawktaro]

thread survival challenge (impossible)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

they all die

 

[Nonynho]

thread survival challenge (impossible)

I just couldn't bump it lol
But I aint gonna let this necro lmfao

Oh, since I'm already talking to ya: leaving a vote or do you have a counter argument?

they all die

Any inputs here?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I mean, what can I say? This thread is basically a slug battle that will be determined by the stamina and power.

Either V's slight advantage on AP and teleport wear down William or William tanks it enough to wear down V's stamina.

Either incon or I lean towards William outlasting V

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

William gets stomped...

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

okay byt why?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

V stomps. Royal Fork trap or Gambit stab with magic cane = game over GG

 

[Nonynho]

Much insistence in calling this a stomp

If V TP's (which he does when the enemy's worn down 99% of the time, so not entirely IC), he's not exerting anything IK-worthy, because, you know, his AP is in the same Tier as William's
William is not a bag of wires and steel waiting for the kill, he makes very little use of the haxes V resists (all, lmao) and can be very cunning, specially if he buys a single milissecond of distraction with Shadow Freddy, then he may be able to hide in the woods (friendly reminder that by SBA they're fighting in Central Park) and I have failed to see V's sensing being able to instantly detect William by his PnA section

Thing is, if William is able to worn out a very tired guy, he wins, and if V is able to get William to be at the mercy of his slow-ass regen, he wins via Incap
And I see the second scenario as the most likely, as William's intelligence is more centered towards other stuff, while V's got the battle intelligence of no other than Vergil Sparda.

Please get more creative than "this is a stomp [insert a single simple line of thought]"

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I didn't mean a literal stomp. I was just exxagerating.

If this is worn out V only exists at the end of game, you would have to specify. V at start of the month has no such glaring issue. There's night and day difference between both. So he isn't tired or disintegrating yet.

Start of month V beat Nightmare at his own mind game and dominated his soul to recruit him at familiar. And there's no lag to his senses, he scales above basic sensory feats in verse like allows detecting life force/aura/souls etc even at a distance and beyond blockades. He detected power level of Urizen who was at top of the Qlipoth tree while V was below, and that tree is kilometers tall. They can even detect humans who don't have supernatural powers across kilometers. He absolutely isn't getting stealthed.

His physical AP may be low, but he can augment or bypass basic dura with magic to an extent. Like I said if he summons swords out of thin air, those will directly end up inside Teddy. And he can parry/reflect attacks with the cane as well.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Going off the profile V can barely run for a few seconds before exhausting himself which means William takes the stamina part quite handily.

V doesn't really do damage to enemies unless he enhances the cane and even then it isn't much gameplay wise. Lore wise he never does any damage unless the demons are already put close to death thanks to the summons, same with the summoned canes.

This is really just a slug fest and V doesn't have the energy to see it to the end.

 

[Nonynho]

If this is worn out V only exists at the end of game, you would have to specify.

i don't have how to specify this, the profile doesn't do so
let's consider the one from the start of the game

matter of fact, where have i said that this is his "worn out version" or something? i've just pointed out that he gets tired quite easily and the profile also talks about it

They can even detect humans who don't have supernatural powers across kilometers. He absolutely isn't getting stealthed.

this should be added to the profile
but as they're MFTL+, Shadow Freddy attempting to jumpscare him should buy a few milisseconds for an attempt of an sneak attack, the main strategy of this mf relies on this so it should be attempted IC
(y'all making me argue for the MF i wish got the L ;-

His physical AP may be low, but he can augment or bypass basic dura with magic to an extent.

this is not in the profile, so it won't be taken into consideration
Also, who said his AP is low? ~1.5x William's, it's pretty neat

Going off the profile V can barely run for a few seconds before exhausting himself which means William takes the stamina part quite handily.

His magic like summoning stuff and tp'ing with the cane is pretty much unnaffected by this, and V won't be needing to run much in this fight
but if William can't stealth him for prolonged periods, only maybe for some milisseconds with Shadow Freddy's jumpscare, how is he outstamina'ing V, exactly, if he IC doesn't go for more cqc-centered combats?

V doesn't really do damage to enemies unless he enhances the cane and even then it isn't much gameplay wise.

wtf does a taunt showcase has to do with anything here? legit question.
Well, it isn't much in the context of 2-C people who brutalize other 2-C if they don't pay attention in a very edgy-anime fast combat game
But taking from all sources, he can do around 1.5x more than William with his low-ass damage lmfao

This is really just a slug fest and V doesn't have the energy to see it to the end.

main question is not how long does V can stand
it'd be what would be William doing if all his IC strategies of instantly mauling the enemy don't work

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

i don't have how to specify this, the profile doesn't do so
let's consider the one from the start of the game

matter of fact, where have i said that this is his "worn out version" or something? i've just pointed out that he gets tired quite easily and the profile also talks about it

Yeah I forgot the profile would consider him at his prime, his death state from end of game would be incapable of combat anyways.

this should be added to the profile
but as they're MFTL+, Shadow Freddy attempting to jumpscare him should buy a few milisseconds for an attempt of an sneak attack, the main strategy of this mf relies on this so it should be attempted IC
(y'all making me argue for the MF i wish got the L ;-

what is IC? Can you show me what that jumpscare looks like?

this is not in the profile, so it won't be taken into consideration
Also, who said his AP is low? ~1.5x William's, it's pretty neat

it's just magic properties like soul hax and stuff, already on verse page.

 

[Nonynho]

what is IC?

abbreviation for "In Character"
what type of decisions/powers and abilities (and how) said character would use in the scenarios brought up

Can you show me what that jumpscare looks like?

The thing is that in FNaF 3, the player can keep William at bay and get the two jumpscares in quick succesion
but the key we're using only theoretically can use the ability of summoning him, because in FNaF "6" he doesn't do so (and it would make this ridiculous ass "hard-just-for-difficulty's-sake" game even harder)

Those are the gifs for all the jumpscares in the game, note that the Phantom Freddy one is very direct, just a jump into ur face (while William's is the most pathetic, stupid and hilarious **** this franchise has ever produced)

it's just magic properties like soul hax and stuff, already on verse page.

I've noticed that his profile "lacks" something but i noticed that whoever did it, made it on purpose
The "Demon Physiology" page is not in his Base Abilities key, only in the Resistances one
Meaning he get the resistances but not the usage of the abilities themselves

So i won't be taking them into consideration here

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

wtf does a taunt showcase has to do with anything here? legit question.
Well, it isn't much in the context of 2-C people who brutalize other 2-C if they don't pay attention in a very edgy-anime fast combat game
But taking from all sources, he can do around 1.5x more than William with his low-ass damage lmfao

The taunt actually gives you a power amplification so when you hit with the cane alone it can do damage to enemies beyond 1 health point.

And this is talking about him barely dealing damage to things like the empusas and stuff

main question is not how long does V can stand
it'd be what would be William doing if all his IC strategies of instantly mauling the enemy don't work

idk lol V has never fought anyone on his own without having some kind of boost or anything like that but its clear he can't maintain that kind of battle going on so I vote for the robot

I've noticed that his profile "lacks" something but i noticed that whoever did it, made it on purpose

The "Demon Physiology" page is not in his Base Abilities key, only in the Resistances one
Meaning he get the resistances but not the usage of the abilities themselves

So i won't be taking them into consideration here


yeah, V isn't a demon nor does he have any ability like that and he clearly can't destroy souls like the others do (as the demons he kills are sent back to the demon world instead of being killed) at best he can touch souls and destroy them that way but not something he can do nilly willy

 

[Comiphorous]

I noticed this match a few days ago, but didn't comment and just checking in.

I see people are talking about shadow freddy. Considering this is scraptrap, it's actually ooc for Afton to use any illusions in this key. his springtrap key is the only one which even remotely uses illusions, (besides his human key which he uses shadow freddy) but at most he uses his illusions to change posters or making multiple of himself appear.

Scraptrap would start with immediately using his stealth which allows him hide inside small objects that Michael can buy for his pizzeria.

 

[Nonynho]

The taunt actually gives you a power amplification so when you hit with the cane alone it can do damage to enemies beyond 1 health point.

And this is talking about him barely dealing damage to things like the empusas and stuff

It is quite disingenuous to assume that he does no damage because he's doing 1 of damage (in a clearly Game Mechanics situation) to creatures with way more hax and resistances than William, while the statistics point that he actually does more than the latter does, in AP
how much damage the character does is not a reliable source here, or else the entire verse would take it into consideration for other stuff

idk lol V has never fought anyone on his own without having some kind of boost or anything like that but its clear he can't maintain that kind of battle going on so I vote for the robot

It is not "not clear" because you say so (and this lack of reasoning is why i can't count ur vote, yet)

If he has a feat, that means that some fight can be pulled off, William's haxes are all resisted and he can't perform his main strategy in a reliable way (stealth and then brutalize), so how do you propose that he wins?

yeah, V isn't a demon nor does he have any ability like that and he clearly can't destroy souls like the others do (as the demons he kills are sent back to the demon world instead of being killed) at best he can touch souls and destroy them that way but not something he can do nilly willy

and if he does this to Afton (which is not impossible to happen, just not immediate), it's gg the same way

Scraptrap would start with immediately using his stealth which allows him hide inside small objects that Michael can buy for his pizzeria.

'k so how is he doing this in the Central Park?
Also, William can get detected by Extrasensory Perception as pointed out by our colleage before, so stealth is completely out of question

 

[Comiphorous]

'k so how is he doing this in the Central Park?
Also, William can get detected by Extrasensory Perception as pointed out by our colleage before, so stealth is completely out of question

then he rushes the opponent ig? Unlike his Springtrap key, he's a lot more forward in this key and doesn't really bother hiding much before attacking. (beyond what he's usually in character for doing) If he isn't using stealth he'll just go for directly killing a victim.

It entirely depends on how V would handle being attacked by Afton. Afton has a stupid immortality type 2 and isn't going to die even if you leave him as nothing but a head. They're basically equal in stats entirely besides afton having an absurd stamina advantage.

 

[Nonynho]

then he rushes the opponent ig?

This would go very wrong, as V can generate a floating cane behind him and TP out of the tackling, or do what's more common in the game and get a slight dash/roll out of the attack's way, generating other possibilities

It entirely depends on how V would handle being attacked by Afton.

If that's all what's lacking then V should be taking this way more often than not, because the most common strategy for William won't work and he isn't particularly known as the most combat-strategic guy... While V is the human side of Vergil, one of the most capable combatants in the verse. Not to say that he gets 100% of the strategization capabilities of Vergil, but any% of it is certainly way much more than William's

 

[Comiphorous]

If that's all what's lacking then V should be taking this way more often than not, because the most common strategy for William won't work and he isn't particularly known as the most combat-strategic guy... While V is the human side of Vergil, one of the most capable combatants in the verse. Not to say that he gets 100% of the strategization capabilities of Vergil, but any% of it is certainly way much more than William's

Then i'm gonna have to agree with the people above. definitely a stomp in this key. Scraptrap's only ability he actually moderately uses in this key is useless and he's not beating someone who comically outskills him in combat when they're equals in most stats. (plus only having one arm)

If you switch it to William's Springtrap key or switch the version to Fazbear Frights William then i can see him being able to overcome that skill.

 

[Nonynho]

definitely a stomp in this key

The outsmarting is as large as the outstamina'ing that William has, why would it be a 100% stomp?