[5-6-3] The Empress Of Nilfgaard Vs The Empress Of The Isles - Ciri VS Emily Kaldwin - Witcher VS Dishonored

[LegendariumOfLies]

Intro:
Just a neat match I wanted to do for a while.

Ciri (Full Power Key):

• AP: 1.961393414 tons of TNT, 2.40995597059316 Megatons with Elder Blood
• LS: Class 5 (1 ton since no value is given), possibly Class 25 (10 tons)

Emily:

• AP: 0.13 Tons Of Tnt
• LS: Class 5 (1.88 tons)

Arena/Rules:

• Arena is Hierarch Square
• Speed is Equalized (for obvious reasons)
• Starting Distance is 20 meters
• Both Characters are In Character

Music:


Votes:

• Carrier of the Elder Blood: @MrKerf, @Naito-desu, @AppleMaker, @DarthSorox, @Nonynho
• Heir to the Throne: @Deceived3596, @Arcker123, @LegendariumOfLies , @DaReaperMan, @Harith0cell , @Rex_Eckles
• Incon: @SheevShezarrine, @NikHelton, @Arsuzz

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

So, I am just gonna get ahead that Ciri nukes with the Elder Blood or Emily Time-Stops and Insta-Wins.

Ciri Nukes With Elder Blood

1. Ciri doesn't really use the Elder Blood as a Nuke AOE in character. She more uses it to spam teleport
2. She really can't control it if she does use it that way - see here
3. The only time she does it was in massive emotional distress when Vesemir died, so not something she will open with or likely use immediately in character

Emily Time-Stops

1. Emily's Time Stop is more Time Dilation. It slows down the world, and it only does it when she is aiming Far Reach. This means that she really can't attack while use it - I guess she can grab Ciri, but given Ciri is possibly 10x Stronger that might not be the best idea
2. Emily does not have Bend Time - which actually stops time. This is a mechanic in NG+, and as such, isn't really considered canon

So, how do they win - or rather how do I stop people from spamming STOMP.

Ciri Advantages:
+AP Advantage (15.0876416462x)
+Skill Advantage (Ciri fought far stronger foes. No offense to Daud or Deliliah, but they aren't immortal elves who do nothing but fight, raid, and train for thousands of years)
+Possible LS Advantage (If you take the higher ends)
= Same Stamina
- Severely Outhaxed
-Dumber

Emily Advantages:
+ Outhaxes hard (Doppleganger, Shadow Walk, and Mesmerize are going to be a ***** for Ciri to deal with)
+Smarter (Ciri is only average, Emily is Gifted)
+Possible LS Advantage (If you buy Ciri's lower end)
=Similar Stamina
-Horrendously outscaled in AP
-LS Disadvantage (If you take the higher ends)
-Horrendously Outskilled (Read Above)

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump ig

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Wow I expected this match to be more popular

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

BUMP

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

BUMP

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Skill Advantage (Ciri fought far stronger foes. No offense to Daud or Deliliah, but they aren't immortal elves who do nothing but fight, raid, and train for thousands of years)

Do you have feats to back this up? Experience =/= skill

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also there really isnt anything stopping emily from just Dominoing Ciri

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Also there really isnt anything stopping emily from just Dominoing Ciri

Ciri closing the distance with teleport and killing her - which is her go to move, popping into a different dimension (not something she would use in character but still one of her abilities), or just teleporting out of eyesight with teleport. Also, Domino isn't really Emily's go to move.

Do you have feats to back this up? Experience =/= skill

Caranthir is on the same level of skill as Eredin, who fought Geralt of Rivia whose skill you can read about here, and Ciri fought Eredin in the books and won.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ciri closing the distance with teleport and killing her - which is her go to move, popping into a different dimension (not something she would use in character but still one of her abilities), or just teleporting out of eyesight with teleport. Also, Domino isn't really Emily's go to move.

The thing that Emily can also do

Caranthir is on the same level of skill as Eredin, who fought Geralt of Rivia whose skill you can read about here, and Ciri fought Eredin in the books and won.

Wrong link?

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

The thing that Emily can also do

Teleportation? Sure, but Emily still has get a bead on her for Domino to work which is going to be difficult because Ciri - unlike Emily - does not have a limited pool of magic and can spam it basically infintely, and Ciri can do stuff like this, basically get a multi-hit on Emily before she has a chance to react.

Wrong link?

Geralt of Rivia (Video Games)

Geralt of Rivia (Polish: Geralt z Rivii) is a witcher and the main protagonist of The Witcher book series by Andrzej Sapkowski and the video game series that serve as the sequel to the books, The Witcher, The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings and The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. Like all witchers, Geralt...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hopefully better

 

[Stillwinston]

Atm I'm voting on Incon, maybe Emily high diff. Emily can use the heart to tell her fighting Ciri head on is pointless and just dip out and then re-engage whenever she wants, but Ciri can spam more and close the gap and one shot.

 

[MrKerf]

Ugh, the one time I regret never choosing Emily to play as... Well...

Looking at the trailer, Emily isn't above direct melee combat, which really doesn't give her any favours. She is taught by Corvo, an incredible fighter, and best in Dishonored, but primarily a spy and assassin. Compared to Geralt and Vesemir, one of whom is the best fighter in all of the North, and both fought tougher opponents and mightier beasts, I'd say Ciri is more skilled.

So, assuming the first hit does occur, Ciri can just overpower Emily in combat and kill easily.

That being said... Why is Ciri's profile so... Meh?

 

[Naito-desu]

Witcher profiles haven't been updated, a lot of them haven't been since VsBattles lowkey changed its format

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump ig

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Ugh, the one time I regret never choosing Emily to play as... Well...

Looking at the trailer, Emily isn't above direct melee combat, which really doesn't give her any favours. She is taught by Corvo, an incredible fighter, and best in Dishonored, but primarily a spy and assassin. Compared to Geralt and Vesemir, one of whom is the best fighter in all of the North, and both fought tougher opponents and mightier beasts, I'd say Ciri is more skilled.

So, assuming the first hit does occur, Ciri can just overpower Emily in combat and kill easily.

That being said... Why is Ciri's profile so... Meh?

Don't count Emily out too much she is smarter than Ciri, and she has dealt with opponents that are physically stronger than her before:

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump + Votes?

 

[MrKerf]

Don't count Emily out too much she is smarter than Ciri, and she has dealt with opponents that are physically stronger than her before:

Eh, that’s a debatable smartness that comes from having a meh profile. Realistically, Ciri is Gifted too, in combat at least.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bumping

 

[Deceived3596]

It doesn't seem like Ciri has a notable defense against Mesmerize. What exactly is stopping Emily from staying back and utilizing this ability to incapacitate Ciri, then using an ability like Domino to kill her off?

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

It doesn't seem like Ciri has a notable defense against Mesmerize. What exactly is stopping Emily from staying back and utilizing this ability to incapacitate Ciri, then using an ability like Domino to kill her off?

Emily usually doesnt start off with Mesmerize. She usually tries to close the distance or go for Shadow Walk. If it gets physical Ciri overpowers her. If its Shadow Walk, Ciri just teleports away. Furthermore, Memerize actually still requires Emily to incap/kill Ciri which will be difficult given the AP/LS gap

 

[Deceived3596]

Emily usually doesnt start off with Mesmerize. She usually tries to close the distance or go for Shadow Walk. If it gets physical Ciri overpowers her. If its Shadow Walk, Ciri just teleports away. Furthermore, Memerize actually still requires Emily to incap/kill Ciri which will be difficult given the AP/LS gap

Well, I wouldn't say we have any accurate depictions of how Emily would fight against someone like Ciri. In the trailer, it's contextualized to her fighting multiple opponents, and wanting to incapacitate them quickly so she could continue after Jindosh. It doesn't really help us in determining how she would fight an individual who is: significantly stronger than her, who possesses esoteric abilities like herself, and who isn't surrounded by other adversaries like Jindosh was.

If anything, I would say the fact she is intelligent and can gain knowledge about the capacities of Ciri before having to fight her in close combat, is substantial indication she would go about fighting her differently compared to how she fought against the Clockwork Soldiers. So, I would assert that it would be, at least, similarly probable she would utilize an ability like that before deciding to engage directly as the context is completely different, and thus, not applicable. And since I haven't seen anything else that could indicate we do have a comparable situation to this one, any ability is arguable.

Also, Mesmerize wouldn't be the ability that kills her. It would only incapacitate her long enough so Emily can use the Domino + Doppelgänger combo, like demonstrated here.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Well, I wouldn't say we have any accurate depictions of how Emily would fight against someone like Ciri. In the trailer, it's contextualized to her fighting multiple opponents, and wanting to incapacitate them quickly so she could continue after Jindosh. It doesn't really help us in determining how she would fight an individual who is: significantly stronger than her, who possesses esoteric abilities like herself, and who isn't surrounded by other adversaries like Jindosh was.

If anything, I would say the fact she is intelligent and can gain knowledge about the capacities of Ciri before having to fight her in close combat, is substantial indication she would go about fighting her differently compared to how she fought against the Clockwork Soldiers. So, I would assert that it would be, at least, similarly probable she would utilize an ability like that before deciding to engage directly as the context is completely different, and thus, not applicable. And since I haven't seen anything else that could indicate we do have a comparable situation to this one, any ability is arguable.

Also, Mesmerize wouldn't be the ability that kills her. It would only incapacitate her long enough so Emily can use the Domino + Doppelgänger combo, like demonstrated here.

Would she know she needs go with Domino + Doppleganger because if she doesn't and attacks Ciri then Mesmerize is broken. Also, Mesmerize takes up to two seconds to take affect (however this could just be a gameplay limitation), giving Ciri enough time to get away.

 

[Deceived3596]

Would she know she needs go with Domino + Doppleganger because if she doesn't and attacks Ciri then Mesmerize is broken. Also, Mesmerize takes up to two seconds to take affect (however this could just be a gameplay limitation), giving Ciri enough time to get away.

In some instances, I could see her attacking her without prior knowledge of how strong she actually is, which could result in her losing the fight. It's difficult to say either way, though, as there are also a similar number of possible instances where she does remain vigilant and decides to end the fight as quickly and effectively as she can.

Since we don't have much in terms of in-verse demonstrations of how she fights, and the moves she chooses to utilize first, all of them are plausible options. I'd argue that, given her intelligence and Ciri being an unknown factor, she would stay back and accrue information about her before engaging. And with the Heart's ability to tell weaknesses and other forms of information about a target, I could see her gathering enough pertinent information to determine how dangerous Ciri is and act accordingly.

As for Mesmerize, I see on the Wiki it says it takes 2 seconds to affect someone, but I don't know if this is, as you said, a gameplay limitation or an actual one. For the sake of fair debate, I am fine with assuming it is an actual limitation (it is demonstrated as one, even if it is never explicitly stated to be one). I'd simply ask, though, how would Ciri address the Void Thrall? Like, would she simply try to attack it (which won't do anything to it, If I recall correctly) or would she, because of experience and instinct, decide to teleport away and avoid looking at it. I don't see why she would have any prior inclination about how the Void Thrall functions, so I don't see her simply not looking at it.

I see her more likely deciding to attack it, which might not work, which would result in her getting mind controlled. It would allow Emily some much needed time to set up the combo I brought up. So, until I see an argument why she wouldn't be affected by the Void Thrall, I have Emily winning via the argument I laid out here and above.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

As for Mesmerize, I see on the Wiki it says it takes 2 seconds to affect someone, but I don't know if this is, as you said, a gameplay limitation or an actual one. For the sake of fair debate, I am fine with assuming it is an actual limitation (it is demonstrated as one, even if it is never explicitly stated to be one). I'd simply ask, though, how would Ciri address the Void Thrall? Like, would she simply try to attack it (which won't do anything to it, If I recall correctly) or would she, because of experience and instinct, decide to teleport away and avoid looking at it. I don't see why she would have any prior inclination about how the Void Thrall functions, so I don't see her simply not looking at it.

We have a similar experience in the Witcher 3. When faced with a monster she had no previous knowledge about. she took time to examine and analyze the evidence in front of her and come up with counter strategies

I see her more likely deciding to attack it, which might not work, which would result in her getting mind controlled. It would allow Emily some much needed time to set up the combo I brought up. So, until I see an argument why she wouldn't be affected by the Void Thrall, I have Emily winning via the argument I laid out here and above.

I'll count that as a vote

 

[Arcker123]

but they aren't immortal

Delilah is immortal... hell, even like, fodder dogs are immortal in this verse.

elves who do nothing but fight, raid, and train for thousands of years

Experience ≠ Skill, but even if you wanna go there, even less skilled Dishonored characters like Billie have defeated Envisioned who are stone monsters who have been fighting and protecting the time dilated Void for several generations.

We have a similar experience in the Witcher 3. When faced with a monster she had no previous knowledge about. she took time to examine and analyze the evidence in front of her and come up with counter strategies

She won't be able to do this. Just being in its presence means she's mind haxed.

Ciri fought far stronger foes

I admit that I dont have extensive knowledge on Witcher like I do on Dishonored, but even the fodder Emily mows down in droves have wide assortment of abilities that Ciri also has like teleportation. I don't think skill at this point has been proven to be a notable edge for either combatant.

Edit:

Well, I wouldn't say we have any accurate depictions of how Emily would fight against someone like Ciri. In the trailer, it's contextualized to her fighting multiple opponents

She's also fighting robots who can't be mindhaxed anywho. She's not a jedi.

And most opponents she fights, even fodder with some Void connections have a resistance to mesmerize's control.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Delilah is immortal... hell, even like, fodder dogs are immortal in this verse.

Experience ≠ Skill, but even if you wanna go there, even less skilled Dishonored characters like Billie have defeated Envisioned who are stone monsters who have been fighting and protecting the time dilated Void for several generations.

She won't be able to do this. Just being in its presence means she's mind haxed.

I admit that I dont have extensive knowledge on Witcher like I do on Dishonored, but even the fodder Emily mows down in droves have wide assortment of abilities that Ciri also has like teleportation. I don't think skill at this point has been proven to be a notable edge for either combatant.

Edit:

She's also fighting robots who can't be mindhaxed anywho. She's not a jedi.

And most opponents she fights, even fodder with some Void connections have a resistance to mesmerize's control.

Vote for Emily?

 

[Arcker123]

Sure. Emily for Deceived's reasoning

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Sure. Emily for Deceived's reasoning

Counted

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Going incon for now

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Going incon for now

Counted

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bump

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

The thing that Emily can also do

Wrong link?

Ugh, the one time I regret never choosing Emily to play as... Well...

Looking at the trailer, Emily isn't above direct melee combat, which really doesn't give her any favours. She is taught by Corvo, an incredible fighter, and best in Dishonored, but primarily a spy and assassin. Compared to Geralt and Vesemir, one of whom is the best fighter in all of the North, and both fought tougher opponents and mightier beasts, I'd say Ciri is more skilled.

So, assuming the first hit does occur, Ciri can just overpower Emily in combat and kill easily.

That being said... Why is Ciri's profile so... Meh?

Plz Vote

Anyway, I'm gonna cast my vote for Emily. While there is a scenario where Emily closes the distance and Ciri just lops her head off, it is more likely she keeps her distance and plays it cool. My reasoning for this is the comics which are the canon sequel to Dishonored 2 in which we got Low Chaos Good Ending for Emily. To get Low Chaos, Emily would have to be sneaky and plan out her moves thoroughly, meaning it is unlikely she is just going to rush Ciri.
Now even then, it isn't a guranteed win for Emily as one wrong move means Ciri closes the distance and kills her, but with the heart telling Emily Ciri's weaknesses - I think that is unlikely.
Furthermore, and something no one seems to be talking about, is Emily's equipment - which has things like Sleep Darts, Incinderary Bolts, Stinging Bolts, Howling Bolts, Stun Mines, and Spring Razors. The first two are status effects Ciri doesn't resist, and while the others don't have the AP to put Ciri down, they will distract and give Emily a lot of opportunities to set up the kill.
Emily High Diff

 

[MrKerf]

Plz Vote

SBA and Rules indicate that Emily doesn't start in the shadows, and she is primarily an assassin. I will once again look at the trailer and once again see how she fights when not having a drop on an opponent - directly. Normally, she would use her tools and/or abilities. Here - not so much. My opinion wasn't changed.

I vote Ciri.

 

[Arcker123]

She starts 4KM away given Ciri has multiversal TP range. More than enough space to use stealth.

The trailer is a dubious source for a canon starter anywho. She has time stop in that clip, which is apart of the gameplay only NG+ playthrough. I don't see why thats even relevant to this discussion, much less above the comics, where she and Corvo do use stealth primarily.