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that's the mindset
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JJK: Relativistic Speed CRT
- Thread starter ElJoaki5
- Start date
- Status
that's the mindset
- 3,426
- 3,035
- Thread starter
- #122
The MHS+ has a lot of issues but the Relativistic reaction doesnt really. Sukuna being hit by a soundwave isnt an antifeat since it was a way weaker Sukuna.
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- 31
No. Just no.
"Hakari reacted to lightning" debunked numerous times.
"Sukuna was able to react to an em wave" 2 PAGES PRIOR, HE WAS TAGGED BY A SOUNDWAVE.
Wanna know the difference between lightspeed and soundspeed?
The difference between Usain Bolt and a snail is 926×.
The difference between a soundwave and an EM wave is 874,030.5×
The difference between Usain Bolt and a snail, is 943.87× less than the difference between a soundwave and an EM wave.
If Sukuna is lightspeed, Sukuna could be in the deepest sleep of his life, and be attacked by a soundwave, and he should be fast enough to wake up and dodge it before it even touches his skin. It touching the hair of his skin would wake him up immediately, and he would proceed to dodge it before it makes contact with his skin.
There is NO UNIVERSE, where a lightspeed character can EVER be hit by a soundspeed attack.
We are only 6,536.4705882353× faster than the slowest thing in our known universe, the Bose-Einstein Condensate.
The difference between an EM wave and a soundwave is 133.7159692225× greater than the difference between Usain Bolt and the slowest thing in the known universe.
"he knew it wouldn't hurt/he tanked it" so you think Kashimo just threw out an attack he knew was thousands of times slower than himself & wouldn't damage Sukuna at all
. Sureee.The rest of these arguments have just all been debunked already multiple times.
It's a full disagree.
- 3,426
- 3,035
- Thread starter
- #124
Nice yap but that was a weakened version of Sukuna, not the one who reacted to the emws.No. Just no.
"Hakari reacted to lightning" debunked numerous times.
"Sukuna was able to react to an em wave" 2 PAGES PRIOR, HE WAS TAGGED BY A SOUNDWAVE.
Wanna know the difference between lightspeed and soundspeed?
The difference between Usain Bolt and a snail is 926×.
The difference between a soundwave and an EM wave is 874,030.5×
The difference between Usain Bolt and a snail, is 943.87× less than the difference between a soundwave and an EM wave.
If Sukuna is lightspeed, Sukuna could be in the deepest sleep of his life, and be attacked by a soundwave, and he should be fast enough to wake up and dodge it before it even touches his skin. It touching the hair of his skin would wake him up immediately, and he would proceed to dodge it before it makes contact with his skin.
There is NO UNIVERSE, where a lightspeed character can EVER be hit by a soundspeed attack.
We are only 6,536.4705882353× faster than the slowest thing in our known universe, the Bose-Einstein Condensate.
The difference between an EM wave and a soundwave is 133.7159692225× greater than the difference between Usain Bolt and the slowest thing in the known universe.
"he knew it wouldn't hurt/he tanked it" so you think Kashimo just threw out an attack he knew was thousands of times slower than himself & wouldn't damage Sukuna at all
The rest of these arguments have just all been debunked already multiple times.
It's a full disagree.
Saqphire
She/Her- 1,593
- 1,899
Lol why isn't the soundwave anti-feat the outlier here? Sukuna is already considered both narratively and demonstratably to be far faster than attacks like Piercing Blood which is faster than Mach 1 aswell as attacks faster than lightningNo. Just no.
"Hakari reacted to lightning" debunked numerous times.
"Sukuna was able to react to an em wave" 2 PAGES PRIOR, HE WAS TAGGED BY A SOUNDWAVE.
Wanna know the difference between lightspeed and soundspeed?
The difference between Usain Bolt and a snail is 926×.
The difference between a soundwave and an EM wave is 874,030.5×
The difference between Usain Bolt and a snail, is 943.87× less than the difference between a soundwave and an EM wave.
If Sukuna is lightspeed, Sukuna could be in the deepest sleep of his life, and be attacked by a soundwave, and he should be fast enough to wake up and dodge it before it even touches his skin. It touching the hair of his skin would wake him up immediately, and he would proceed to dodge it before it makes contact with his skin.
There is NO UNIVERSE, where a lightspeed character can EVER be hit by a soundspeed attack.
We are only 6,536.4705882353× faster than the slowest thing in our known universe, the Bose-Einstein Condensate.
The difference between an EM wave and a soundwave is 133.7159692225× greater than the difference between Usain Bolt and the slowest thing in the known universe.
"he knew it wouldn't hurt/he tanked it" so you think Kashimo just threw out an attack he knew was thousands of times slower than himself & wouldn't damage Sukuna at all
The rest of these arguments have just all been debunked already multiple times.
It's a full disagree.
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Testarossa002
Username Only- 2,860
- 3,504
I'm really confused as to why the main argument against Rel/FTL Sukuna is "he got hit by soundwaves"
There's no version of power-scaling where that sukuna is slower than sound. That mf casually blitzed a Mach 1+ piercing blood like 3 chapters after the kashimo fight and went on to perception blitz Maki with her Mach 3+ precog
Mentioned this on the general thread a while back
There's no version of power-scaling where that sukuna is slower than sound. That mf casually blitzed a Mach 1+ piercing blood like 3 chapters after the kashimo fight and went on to perception blitz Maki with her Mach 3+ precog
Mentioned this on the general thread a while back
Thunderman101
He/Him- 3,506
- 865
will gojo scale to relativistic?
- 3,426
- 3,035
- Thread starter
- #128
Obviously yes
Thunderman101
He/Him- 3,506
- 865
I agree with relativistic reaction speeds
Saqphire
She/Her- 1,593
- 1,899
I mean we already accept Sukuna and Gojo being faster than sound, so any arguments saying "Sukuna got tagged by sound" is not only invalid narratively, it's also as OP said, on a super nerfed Sukuna
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 3,421
- 1,548
The thing is: at this point in the story Sukuna would be far faster than things like Piercing Blood which is literally said to far exceed the speed of sound and would be faster than a Mach 3 Curse Naoya
If anything, him getting hit by the sound wave is either him just not being locked in or just an outlier
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The issue is that op's justification for Pre-transformation Sukuna being tagged by sound waves twice is that he's weakened after his fight with Gojo (which is a fair take) while also turning around and attempting to use the EM wave and lightning bolt in that part of the fight for scaling. You can't have your cake and eat it.
In these 2 pages we have Kashimo using sound waves, EM waves and a lightning bolt in quick succession. The EM wave is fired from right in front of Sukuna but he jumps several feet to avoid it. When there's now several feet between him and Kashimo, he gets tagged by a sonic attack and Kashimo is able to close the distance for a direct punch. Then when Kashimo fires a lightning bolt (still a major discrepancy even if we toss the sound stuff since the difference between light speed and lightning speed is x681.3) Sukuna is stationary as the bolt travels several meters and the idea that he transformed in time to tank it is very dubious. Kashimo's lightning bolt is his special move, it's portrayed as having much higher AP than his physical attacks since it gored Unkillable Mode Hakari every time it was used on him and has a condition required to activate it. Sukuna had more of his output recovered when the fight with Yuta began yet he wasn't capable of completely tanking a basic punch and took a page out of Gojo's book by using his CT to prevent Yuta's sword from physically touching him instead of just tanking any slashes (and well, if Yuta's punches could hurt him in that state then his sword would've cut him too). The likelier answer is that Sukuna healed up the damage after being hit.
- 3,426
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- Thread starter
- #133
Its not really the same part, the sukuna that got hit by sound waves was the 1 hp Meguna while the EMW one was the TF Sukuna which has regenerated and is much stronger.
You have a point on it applying to the lightning thing tho. Although it should be considered that sound expands in a very wide area, at that point dodging it would be combat speed rather than reaction.
The first sukuna ”emw dodge" has never been considered valid. Its an aimdodge, or at least it could have been, which makes it unusable.
I dont believe this would be possible, Kashimo already did the same on Hakari and he would have been dead if he hadnt been saved by RCT. Sukuna cant heal the damage afterwards because the lightning traveling through his head would make his head explode and kill him instantly.
- 14,879
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We can close this thread and restart later on. If we push this thread to more pages it will never end.
It's been 4 pages and most of it was about Hakari scaling. Starting a new discussion about Relativistic reactions isn't worth it
It's been 4 pages and most of it was about Hakari scaling. Starting a new discussion about Relativistic reactions isn't worth it
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Is it time to do this again but with relativistic JJK
Saqphire
She/Her- 1,593
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Which is why I made the alternate argument that the anti-feat is a massive outlier if we take the notion that Kashimo's sound attack being Mach 1 is true and is not at all congruent with our current accepted scaling of FP Sukuna nor is it as such with a Sukuna who healed himself ending up perception blitzing an attack faster than sound
Furthermore, Kashimo, who knows of Sukuna and Hakari's speed, would be using his strongest and fastest move against the former, so why in the hell would he use an attack that's a gazillion times slower than a bolt that a much slower character reacted to? As Testarossa said, Mach 1 is only a default for sound-based attacks, not an absolute when we deal with supernaturals otherwise we can just go ahead and debunk Boruto to MHS+ since Raiton is still relevant in the verse even today as an example even though there have been several feats showing that these people and their Raiton jutsu are superior to lightspeed attacks
Kashimo and his attacks are much faster than normal when he is using his strongest move as he is using any electricity-based phenomena as his arsenal, your telling of the fight basically says MBA Kashimo and Base Kashimo's attack speed is the same, when that is not true at all. This is the same problem as using sound-based attacks as an absolute plus this presupposes that Kashimo's one-shot bolt is actually lightning, when, as I said, he's using any electrical phenomena, it doesn't have to be lightning in the first place, it could simply also be an EM wave on it's own right, or lightning with a return stroke etc. etc.
Uhh okay? This doesn't actually adress the speed part of both fights, just the AP part. Plus output =/= speed, just strength, otherwise Yorozu woulda been the fastest person in the verse for outputting something with infinite pressure when that's clearly not true
- 14,879
- 16,616
Is it time to do this again but with relativistic JJK
Go to general discussion or something
- 1,020
- 574
No, the second one where he actually does a deflection instead of just teleporting in has a much better arg for being sukuna gojo level.
Also again does no one else think we both a) should wait until the CG is animated and b) wait til we’re a little higher in speed for threads like this? Like yeah AP doesn’t have any real restrictions but speed we should definitely wait a little bit.
Teh only thing I think we should actually take away from this for now is ftl WCS, anything else that gets applied will get instantly reset as the speed gap is actually gonna be astronomical. Liek I said we should wait until we get the HH tier into that Hypersonic + - High Hyper ranges of Reaction speed first. We can’t be so impatient
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bro can you stop spamming the thread
just edit your first post
just edit your first post
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,554
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The idea that a weakened Sukuna not dodging an AoE sound wave is more of an outlier on the basis of a faster version of him dodging a Mach 1.6 attack compared to him being faster than Mach 1283 lightning or Mach 874030 EM waves is an absolutely wild take.
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I mean didn’t he get off guarded? And bro went from getting blitzed badly to blitzing Kashimo without even trying. And he literally took no damage from it
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,554
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If you think any of that can remotely in the slightest justify a nigh MILLION fold speed difference then I don’t know what to say.
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I’m just saying he could’ve very easily allowed himself to be hit to see what Kashimo is all about(especially considering how he took no damage and even seemed amused by the attack), that is in character for him. And again after transforming reacts to the em wave and even times his transformation to survive literally point blank lightning(and later blitzing maki + piercing blood without giving much effort). If anything the sound wave IS the outlier in comparison
because a hypersonic or so character getting hit by soundwaves as he is heavily injured makes a whole lot more sens that a relativistic character getting hit by soundwaves under the same circumstances, the evidence and consistency for lower speed levels far outweigh anything else considering those are author explicit provided speed values, which are far better at determining and scaling stats than fan interpreted values could ever be...especially when the difference in scale is in orders of magnitudes.
Sukuna getting git by sound at that state isn't a narrative contradiction in the slightest, idk where that assertion really even came from.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,554
- 1,704
Yeah no, with even MHS+ perceptions the sound wave would be completely still from his POV. Let alone Rel perceptions for the one firing it.I’m just saying he could’ve very easily allowed himself to be hit to see what Kashimo is all about(especially considering how he took no damage and even seemed amused by the attack), that is in character for him. And again after transforming reacts to the em wave and even times his transformation to survive literally point blank lightning(and later blitzing maki + piercing blood without giving much effort). If anything the sound wave IS the outlier in comparison
Watching the sound wave hit him would be like waiting an hour for a snail to cross a road from their perspective - there would be no reason for Sukuna to waste time standing still and no reason for Kashimo to even try it if he has Rel reaction speed as is being proposed.
Every explanation offered so far for the discrepancy makes more sense for the weakened state making the difference in deciding not to bother dodging the AoE, and then being revitalized by the TF transformation gets him back up to a level to dodge PB. Trying to turn around and say TF Sukuna dodged PB therefore Weakened Meguna getting hit by sound is an outlier is as Sun said trying to have your cake and eat it too.
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- 3,426
- 3,035
- Thread starter
- #146
This Sukuna does not have relativistic perceptions. TF sukuna is the one who reacted to the emw waves. Why are people ignoring this?
Saqphire
She/Her- 1,593
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2x argument from incredulity is crazy. Anyone who is weakened in fiction can be as weak and as slow as the author wants them to be, you guys not believing it to be so isn't an argument but rather headcanon assertions
As I told SunDaGamer, the dogmatism of Kashimo's sound wave capping at Mach 1 is literally unfounded and narratively inconsistent and also, the CRT itself isn't even scaling the weakened Sukuna to Rel, it's TF Sukuna who is far faster than Kashimo to the point that no anti-feat like that would ever tag him until he gets weakened again
Saqphire
She/Her- 1,593
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Atp make a staff thread explaining very clearly that you arent scaling the weakened Sukuna, because most, if not all, counterarguments only attack that specific feat
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Wdym same chapter? Rel feat goes from 238 chapter (True Form Sukuna), not from 237 chapter.
Can yall just read OP and calc?
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,554
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You are proposing Kashimo is Rel. The guy launching the attack in the first place. And that Sukuna is MHS+ (who should also statue it on that alone, but even moreso considering he definitely isn’t a hundred times slower than Kashimo and should realistically be higher).
- 3,426
- 3,035
- Thread starter
- #151
This is just gonna be a repeat of the mountain level CRT
Where is the incredulity in my assertion?
this pre supposes your premise, just circular reasoning.
this is the same.
Any reasoning as to why it's unfounded and narratively inconsistent?
we assuming true form Sukuna is on par with Meguna who fought Gojo right?
If that's the case they're basically the same, and if not Sukuna getting a boost to his perception that ungodly after incarnating is baseless.
I don't really know why this distinction considering no perception boost was implied to have occurred at the moment of his incarnation (and with one being this substantial it should have been), nor does it make sens for it to be there, you all are the ones making headcanons to justify a rating that you haven't proven can exist without making leaps in logic and consistency.
Like stop starting from your conclusions and going back from there to justify it...that isn't how this works
And also yes, true form Sukuna is faster than Kashimo and is unlikely to be hit by soundwaves, because...well, he isn't injured anymore?
idk what that has to do with justifying REL speed tho.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,554
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Re-read what I said. I was pointing out the fact Kashimo is being proposed as Rel.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,554
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Pointing out incredibly blatant contradicting evidence isn’t an argument from incredulity in the slightest
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- Thread starter
- #156
If i do do that itd just be the relativistic reactions part
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That’s what you should’ve done to begin with
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The whole sound attack argument tagging him also forgets the context that the sound attack is well.. a sound attack thats travels omnidirectionally, while the em waves are narrowed area attacks, more like beams.
Plus Kashimo can manipulate electric based or sourced attacks to however he wants in MBA, it wouldn't be a issue to increase its speed beyond normal
Plus Kashimo can manipulate electric based or sourced attacks to however he wants in MBA, it wouldn't be a issue to increase its speed beyond normal
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I'll copy paste this again ig.
Wanna know the difference between lightspeed and soundspeed?
The difference between Usain Bolt and a snail is 926×.
The difference in speed between an EM wave and a soundwave is 874,030.5×
The difference between Usain Bolt and a snail, is 943.87× less than the difference between an EM wave and a soundwave.
If Sukuna is lightspeed, Sukuna could be in the deepest sleep of his life, and be attacked by a soundwave, and he should be fast enough to wake up and dodge it before it even touches his skin. It touching the hair of his skin would wake him up immediately, and he would proceed to dodge it before it makes contact with his skin.
There is NO UNIVERSE, where a lightspeed character can EVER be hit by a soundspeed attack.
We are only 6,536.4705882353× faster than the slowest thing in our known universe, the Bose-Einstein Condensate.
The difference between an EM wave and a soundwave is 133.7159692225× greater than the difference between Usain Bolt and the slowest thing in the known universe.
"Offguard" means nothing when this level of speed difference exists
- 17
- 31
Right, so he just gets 870,000 times faster? Sureeee
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