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The Goddess of Fate vs Yhwach

Celestial_Pegasus

Celestial_Pegasus

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Pre-Final Arc Fate vs Almighty Awakened Yhwach

SBA

Speed equalized

Who wins?

Fate:

Yhwach:

Inconclusive:

This is partly for my curiosity, and partly for the strongest list, that said if necessary, I can give Yhwach everything he can have to make this as fair as possible.
 
She has her own almighty, actually speaking of that I just noticed her profile is missing power null, what kind of oversight is this...

It's described on the profile already, "An ability Fate uses when she gets serious, it lets her see the past, present, and future. Additionally, it invokes her Authority of Fate which reaches the whole world, and within that domain which she rules, spells can't be activated without her permission.".

But basically her range is smurf (5-D), and within that range, no abilities can be used without her permission, of course it has the same thing as Yhwach which lets her see the past present and future, and determine the future.

Her normal Fate manipulation doesn't just let her manipulate fate, but even lets her create fates that are impossible, don't exist, and can't be resisted/countered because it comes from Shallow Vernal who is the absolute law of the world, and manipulates the very concept of fate.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
She has her own almighty, actually speaking of that I just noticed her profile is missing power null, what kind of oversight is this...

It's described on the profile already, "An ability Fate uses when she gets serious, it lets her see the past, present, and future. Additionally, it invokes her Authority of Fate which reaches the whole world, and within that domain which she rules, spells can't be activated without her permission.".

But basically her range is smurf (5-D), and within that range, no abilities can be used without her permission, of course it has the same thing as Yhwach which lets her see the past present and future, and determine the future.

Her normal Fate manipulation doesn't just let her manipulate fate, but even lets her create fates that are impossible, don't exist, and can't be resisted/countered because it comes from Shallow Vernal who is the absolute law of the world, and manipulates the very concept of fate.
Click to expand...
Is smurf potency a thing anymore? I keep hearing that it's not a thing unless it's 1-A (I know you didn't bring that up, I was just curious).

Is her ability layered?
 
Smurf potency is still a thing for 1-A and above, but is mostly not a thing below that, especially if the hax is non-physical. Fate just has smurf range.

Fate's normal fate manipulation isn't layered, just can't be resisted without resistance to law manipulation and type 1 concept manipulation. The Eyes Who See Fate is a stronger version of that, which also works on beings who resist her normal stuff due to being acausal.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Smurf potency is still a thing for 1-A and above, but is mostly not a thing below that. Fate just has smurf range.
Click to expand...
Oh, ok.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Fate's normal fate manipulation isn't layered, just can't be resisted without resistance to law manipulation and type 1 concept manipulation. The Eyes Who See Fate is a stronger version of that, which also works on beings who resist her normal stuff due to being acausal.
Click to expand...
Well, Yhwach currently doesn't resist Law Manipulation or Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation (though, I think there was a CRT made to try and upgrade his Resistance from Type 2 to Type 1, but it died), so I don't think he can stop that.

Bleach is kind of outdated right now (we're waiting for season four of the Thousand-Year Blood War anime), but I don't think any updates people are planning right now would help him against Fate.
 
Ok forget what I said about Fate having power null, that is a LN only thing, must have been a left over from when the profiles were 1. Going to correct that.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
Well, Yhwach currently doesn't resist Law Manipulation or Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation (though, I think there was a CRT made to try and upgrade his Resistance from Type 2 to Type 1, but it died), so I don't think he can stop that.
Click to expand...
Back to this though what I said still stands in that escaping her authority is hard since it's smurf in range, and countering/resisting it isn't possible without law & concept resistance.
Ghostimuscrime said:
How did you make it so that clicking on the image leads to their profiles
Click to expand...

Click edit under the op, and then go to toggle BB code by clicking [ ] at the very top. Copy the code, but instead of the links for the pics for Fate and Yhwach get the links for the characters you want to use it for, ie Post Time skip Ichigo is this.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Ok forget what I said about Fate having power null, that is a LN only thing, must have been a left over from when the profiles were 1. Going to correct that.
Click to expand...
Ok.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Back to this though what I said still stands in that escaping her authority is hard since it's smurf in range, and countering/resisting it isn't possible without law & concept resistance.
Click to expand...
Ok, then I think Yhwach just loses.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Click edit under the op, and then go to toggle BB code by clicking [ ] at the very top. Copy the code, but instead of the links for the pics for Fate and Yhwach get the links for the characters you want to use it for, ie Post Time skip Ichigo is this.
Click to expand...
Wow, I learned something.
 
If Yhwach loses then how about we change the Opponents.

Would Alice be better ? She can resist Fate's abilities dued to more unconventional means

Also Happy my Girl finally is getting more Vs Debate Matchups
 
I have a few questions. Can her power's be stolen with Sankt Atlar? How does she deal with his Reiatsu being a posion to her since she has no antibodies against Hollow's? Can she come back from death with her fate hax the way Yhwach can? And lastly, can she resist paralysis and fear hax?
 
Foriaa said:
I have a few questions. Can her power's be stolen with Sankt Atlar?
Click to expand...
Hmmm... Authorities are located in the "Eyes" of the characters. It is a Power given to them from Shallow Vernal herself. Using their abilities requires alot of talent and aptitude as those who are blessed and can possibly learn their Magic cannot always do so.

Other then that.. It probably could be stolen
Foriaa said:
How does she deal with his Reiatsu being a posion to her since she has no antibodies against Hollow's?
Click to expand...
I assume Reactive Evolution would be enough
Foriaa said:
Can she come back from death with her fate hax the way Yhwach can?
Click to expand...
Fate-Chan uses Casuality Manip to undo her Death. It is something the Six Kings have and that makes them immortal as not even destroying their souls and minds is enough to permanently kill them
Foriaa said:
And lastly, can she resist paralysis and fear hax?
Click to expand...
Not entirely sure on Paralysis but it would fall under status effect inducement which they can resist

Fear Hax is something Isis has in the form of her Authority and it can be resisted as well
 
BoastJr said:
Fate-Chan uses Casuality Manip to undo her Death. It is something the Six Kings have and that makes them immortal as not even destroying their souls and minds is enough to permanently kill them
Click to expand...
Causality Manipulation Negation (Yhwach can rewrite the future so that everything he destroys will remain broken in all possible futures, even with Orihime's ability to reject past events and causality she was unable to repair Tensa Zangetsu after it was broken by Yhwach)

perhaps this can work against that?
 
Foriaa said:
What wincon's would Yhwach have?
Click to expand...
Fate cannot really resist Yhwach's fate Hax I believe, not sure tbh

Right Now, Yhwach has the LS advantage so he can Fling Fate around with CLASS Z telekinesis and wait till his Low 2C Enviromental Destruction destroys the Universe (although the new changes will make Fate have the LS Advantage)

Yhwach can maybe also steal her powers but Fate has probability manipultation which causes misfortunes to happen to her opponents
 
Foriaa said:
Bruh 😭, main reason why I didn't bring that up is because I thought she could resist it with her own fate hax.
Click to expand...
Why is bro ignoring the LS Strategy


Yhwach : Almighty may not be enough. I shall go all out ! Feel the True Power of Class Z Telekinesis and Low 2C Enviromental Destruction

Fate chan : WTF Class Z and ED ??? He is too strong


IMG-0551.jpg
 
I just assumed that her fate hax fuckery would let her get passed something like that
 
So couple things, a God's authority is something which can't be learnt even if the God gave you permission to do so, normally it's impossible, only extraordinary geniuses like Lilia can use it, and even she could only learn a single ability granted by Chronois authority, and could only use it for a few dozen seconds, so I think it would be hard for Yhwach to steal Fate's authority and even if he did, it only be a nerfed version.

Of course, it was Lilia who did it… but Neun couldn’t see it. No, she could just barely see it… However, she couldn’t respond fast enough.

That’s because Lilia was swinging her sword at her with a speed twice as fast, no,a speed faster than ever than before…

The True Blessing of a Supreme God… Those who receive it will be allowed to speak in the name of the Supreme God… but that’s obviously not all there is to it.

Those who have received a Supreme God’s True Blessing will be given the “authority to acquire some of the abilities of the Supreme God”.

Yes, Lilia had received Chronois’ blessing, and Chronois allowed her to learn the “magic of accelerating her own time”.

Of course, being granted permission doesn’t necessarily mean that she can easily use that magic. No matter how extremely competent you are, the thing you were being taught is the magic holding the authority of the Supreme God… It would be impossible for an ordinary human to learn it, even with the God’s permission.

However, Lilia was able to use the magic that she had learned from Chronois thanks to her natural talent, albeit for only a short amount of time.

But even though Lilia has a great amount of magic power, she can only use the Supreme God’s magic to “increase her speed up to three times for a few dozen seconds” and that would use up most of her magic power.-Chapter 354

This makes sense since authorities are granted by Shiro, and are the very rules/concept itself. Also if an authority and a non-authority were to try to do the same thing ie manipulate causality/fate to determine the outcome of something, the authority will always take precedence because it is the very rules, doesn't mater if the non-authority user is stronger than the authority user

[Authorities are inherent abilities of Gods, directly given to them by the absolute God of the world, Shallow Vernal-sama. At the same time, authority is also something that the Gods govern. The fact that Gods were referred to as “God of 〇〇〇” denotes the authority they govern.]
[Ehhh~~ In that case, how is that any different from magic?]

[Yes, they may be similar, but they’re also very different. The authority allows them control over the concept itself, so it’s a higher power than magic.]

[Teach. Please teach us in an easier-to-understand way.]

[Let’s see. If I were to compare it to sport, magic is an art that allows the athletes to improve, while the authority allows them to manipulate the rules of the game itself, or something like that? In the first place, in relation to existence, authorities are far higher.]

While explaining what authority is, Alice began drawing pictures on the blackboard. Drawn on it was chibified Fate-san and Alice, and some dice.

[Let’s take Fate-san’s authority over fate as an example. First off all, the principle itself, Principle of Causality Manipulation can be used even by the upper ranks of the High-ranking Demons. There is even magic that allows you to see the future and manipulate the principle of causality.]

[Arehh? Then, wouldn’t magic, that could do the same thing as an authority, be superior?]

[Of course, even though it can’t do everything, magic does allow them to use such abilities. For example, if I wanted to determine the outcome of this dice roll, I could easily do that. In this situation, here’s a question. What would happen if Fate-san and I were to use our abilities to determine the roll of this die? If I try to get a one and Fate-san tries to get a six… What do you think would happen?]

[Hmmm… I guess that would depend on who’s stronger among you two huh?]
Indeed, even Ein-san can manipulate time, which makes me understand that what can be done with authority can also be done with magic. But then, I can’t tell the difference between magic and authority anymore. As I was thinking that, Fate-san asked Alice to explain again, which she reiterated with an explanation that’s easier to understand.
[As a matter of fact, that isn’t the case. Even if I’m many times stronger than Fate-san, in this case, the six that Fate-san determined will always come out. It’s the truth of the world that authority would always be superior to magic… That is because authorities are the rules themselves. Thus, even if a magic and an authority were to do the same thing, the authority will always take precedence.]-Chapter 1183

But yea causality manipulation is nothing special in verse, while Fate's authority is at the very top.
 
This is a stomp. Fate can completely shut down his powers, make it so none of his stuff works, and that he never does the LS meta in the first place.

He can't steal her authority, for the reasons above plus it's cm1 + law manipulation, he can't neg her regen while she can neg his, she resists her power being nullified, etc.

The explode, the balance, the miracle, all that stuff pointless here. Also nullify causality exists in verse, she either resists or get around it
 
Last edited:
Yhwach has layered fate manip, so unless if her fate manip is layered as well, she ain't nulling the almighty.
 
Enter_Bluey said:
This is a stomp. Fate can completely shut down his powers, make it so none of his stuff works, and that he never does the LS meta in the first place.

He can't steal her authority, for the reasons above plus it's cm1 + law manipulation, he can't neg her regen while she can neg his, she resists her power being nullified, etc.

The explode, the balance, the miracle, all that stuff pointless here. Also nullify causality exists in verse, she either resists or get around it
Click to expand...
Cool, Yhwach powernulls her entire kit outside of maybe CM1 with the almighty
 
Hellscream said:
Cool, Yhwach powernulls her entire kit outside of maybe CM1 with the almighty
Click to expand...
Her Fate Manipulation is backed by Conceptual Manipulation and Law Manipulation

It allows her to also use Probability Manipulation

Yhwach is not nullifying her Authority
 
Hellscream said:
Cool, Yhwach powernulls her entire kit outside of maybe CM1 with the almighty
Click to expand...
her entire kit with the authority revolves around said CM1 and law, that is the authority itself. And she resists powernull, that's why it can't be resisted.

And she resists powernull
 
The Eyes Who See Fate works on Alice who is acausal, and her fate manipulation is due to being conceptual, hence why its absolute, so idk if a normal resistance will cover it.

At this I think its probably a stomp, maybe have to try a match up with Alice.
 
"the powernull" from the six kings is... yeah it's not powernull. it literally states exceptionally skilled users can simply bypass it
which means their teleportation skills are simply better than the anti teleportation field, due to their talent, doesn't have anything to do with powernull

so yhwach still powernulls

 
We are in a discussion about a character literally named fate, who Alice fights. I think you can guess what her acausality covers...
 
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