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The Ashen One vs Isaac (GRACE)

First of all, I'm disapointed that this isn't Isaac VS Solaire of Astora, the joke pretty much writes itself.

Secondly...I'm not sure how Isaac can win, but I'm pretty sure the Ashen One can't win either. Isaac seems to have a much larger arsenal to work with, more elements and powers, much better range, differant types of healing, stat manips, forcefields, a lot of resistances to elemental manipulations, and a collection of various statuses and conditions he can deal out like Power Nulification, Immobilization, Sleep, Curses, 1-Hit-Kills, ect, ect, ect.

But while he is able to resist, out range, or heal off pretty much everything the Ashen One can do, the Ashen One will always just get back up and be ressurrected again. I don't think Isaac has anything in his arsenal that can make the Ashen One go away long enough or be permanantly destroyed for good.

I don't think the Ashen one can win, because looking through thier scaling chain I can't find an AP, Isaac outranges, and also has a lot more to hit with while resisting so many differant types of attacks. They might be able to pull sneak attacks with silencing and invisibilty, but without being able to go for a one-shot, we're back to square one where Isaac seems to take control of the fight will all his powers, Djinn, and summons and heals off anything the Ashen one managed to do.

Isaac's only option, I think, is to use the Gale Djinn to make the Ashen One flee from the battle, but I'm not sure that'll count as a BFR win because there's like, nothing stopping him from comming back. Maybe Iris throwing him into space might count as a BFR? Incap via freezing or sleep or immobilization maybe? If Isaac wins, it's going to have to be a roundabout way

Otherwise, Inconclusive, I don't think the Ashen can win (MAYBE wait for Isaac to die of old age, but thanks to the Golden Sun he's looking really damn good for his late 40's, he might have longevity), but Isaac can't stop the ressurection cycle.

Also, while it's super unlikely to ever come up, the Ashen might be able to take control of the Dullahan should Isaac ever try busting out Tomegathericon. That won't change much, since Isaac should be able to kill the Dullahan at his peak, but that's a funny thing to think about.
 
Actually I voted inconclusive, because the Ashen one can just ressurrect, or are we just going to the first kill?

Looking at the forums for Dark Souls it seems like Solaire is getting a bit of an upgrade, it might be getting fairer? Hopefully? Cause I really wanna see that matchup now.
 
I mean, maybe the BFRs or an incap could work for Isaac, but I feel like I'm reeeeeally stretching there. Perhaps if someone else can agree or point out a better incap I'll go back to Isaac, but for now this seems like a stalemate.

If it goes through, I say Solaire's first new battle should be with a Golden Sun character, for the meme if nothing else.
 
I don't think the arguments for Isaac watch well into the future. Isaac could in theory incap but frankly nothing stops the Ashen One from continuously reviving, beating on Isaac a little, and dying then coming back.

I dunno how good Isaac's mind manip or absorption are, but nothing else on his page really screams quick win to me. He also seems to be baseline whereas Ashen is somewhat above baseline, and has something of an AP advantage. The scaling chain is essentially "Beat the Soul of Cinder, who is comprised of a fuckton of 4-Cs put together".

My vote currently goes to Ashen One via chip damage and being an unkillable bastard that in essence has Mid-Godly equivalent Resurrection.
 
Isaac scales past the Iris feat that is listed in his AP. To cut to the chase, Iris makes and blows up a large star for a Supernova attack, there were two big bads who were tougher than that, and then after beating them both Isaac got a fragment of an artifact that was supposed to 'control all the power in the unverse', so his scaling chain takes him out of baseline, though the GS Fragment is a big mystery how far it takes him. Where that puts the AP advantage I don't exactly know, but it might be smaller than your assuming.

And chip damage probably isn't a good way to deal with Isaac, his prefered element is a Life Manipulation element, he heals out the wazoo. Ashen has a healing counter, but it's such a small AOE that I can't see it ever stopping Isaac when he can easily walk out of it, plus since he has the range advantage I don't know how often he'll ever be in the effect in the first place.

I genuinely don't know what Isaac's Mind manip or absorption are off the top of my head. And yeah, actual killing is entirely off the table. Even with a handful of insta-kill attacks and powerful attacks (one that literially just tosses the opponent into distance space and into a star to say 'so long!'), the ressurection will always be a problem. Isaac's only options are probably differant types of immobilizations and similar abilities for an incap.

Which is why I stay firm with the Incon here. Isaac HAS possible options, they're just super inconenient and unlikely, while on the flipside he has a scaling chain for his own power, a whole long list of resistances, better range, and all sorts of ways to heal himself and stay in tip-top condition. Ashen's chip-damage option seems so easily countered since it doesn't seem like most of his abilities can really do much, and even when it can Isaac just tops up because that's his specialty. This doesn't seem to have a good, desicive end. Isaac's options are unlikely and roundabouts, but Ashen doesn't seem to be able to make any good headway even with being pretty impossible to keep down.

This either goes nowhere, or this goes on for so riduculously long I just don't think I can make any sort of good call.
 
Being a small AoE really only means he needs to be somewhat accurate. I still vote Ashen One despite your points, but noted.
 
As a small update to my points above, I looked into it. The Hunter's Charm only stops the Estus Flask's use, but doesn't stop Miracles and other powers.

With that in mind, The Ashen One shouldn't be able to stop Isaac's multiple healing, energy restoring, and Regenerationn Psynergy, Djinn, and Summons. Even if he landed a direct hit, let alone the AOE effect. I'm even less convinced the Ashen One could win via chip damage now, Isaac's got a whole arsenal of healing and reenergizing abilities, he'd have to have an amazing moment of PIS to let chip damage wittle him down.

Plus the whole batch of nearly every resistance under the sun, forcefields, stat manips (to the Ashen's credit, the Dual Charm SHOULD debuff Isaac at least and force him to either rebuff, avoid the AOE, or stop bothering), outranging, immobilizations, and multiple hard counters to poisons make is really hard for Ashen to really do much of anything without Isaac acting like a complete idiot or just giving up.

Granted, this doesn't change the fact that Isaac's options here are still terrible. His BFR is unreliable, and his incap options require him to use his powers in unique ways or get super lucky that a sleep manip or stunning effect or ect lasts long enough to count as a win, or he'd have to come up with one hell of a complicated plan to incap Ashen long enough to make it 'no longer my problem', so I can't say it's a safe and solid victory for Isaac to actually pull any of that off, but chip damage beating a guy who heals like the concept is going out of style feels like it requires similar levels of dumb luck.

Honestly, the more I think about this fight, the more I think it deserves a Benny Hill theme because it feels like its going nowhere.
 
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