Saint Seiya; Tier 2-B ~ High 2-A upgrades.

I give up on trying to copy and paste what i written on Google docs to here as it wasn't rendering right and made it all look messy.

I am posting a link to my google docs here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tVI8BMXHcXFc79_zZhdNY91hufvQ2X43pkYYH75eGa0/edit?usp=sharing

This contains scans, and other sources for verification. I shall only post my summary here.

In summary: Low Ends: At least tier 2-B: Athena, Hades, Thanatos and Hypnos, God cloth and 9th sense users. |||||||| High Ends: Tier High 2-A: Hades, Typhon, Zeus, and God cloths with miracles. Chronos scales above the olympians, unless you see him as someone who is High 5-D/Infinitely 5-D. ----------------------------------------------- > I may make some changes, and edits. This is what i mean when it doesn't render right.

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[Edit] aded a bit more. I don't know if this will come out looking okay.

"

If two athena exclamations collide the force will not be Multiplied by 2, or 3. It will be infinite.
https://imgur.com/DKj1ysV

The Big bang gave birth to Time and space
https://imgur.com/CfHFsSu

The Athena Exclamation is a move that requires 3 Gold Saints to use. A single AE is = to 1 big bang. 2 Athena exclamations colliding, or something of equal force colliding, results in an infinite output of power.
https://imgur.com/RkxwSv7

Destroying the Wailling wall/Wall of Lamentation requires the power of all 12 Gold Saints.
https://imgur.com/iaXa3Nu

And Hades was supporting the "Wall" through his "Divine Will."
https://imgur.com/meCVK5B

Here is an example of Low Multiversal Base Athena Exclamation feat.

Hyperion and his cataclysm slash was standing resolute against an AE
https://imgur.com/4Mc6lAH

https://imgur.com/Uu2UP0v

Now its important to understand the feats the Cataclysm slash has. I will post those.

It can cut through, and destroy time itself.
https://imgur.com/dCK4krj

https://imgur.com/C8q9aPK

https://imgur.com/OCUU08D

It can stop time.
https://imgur.com/ewS8eRk

Here is the probably the most important. It is equal to or greater than Abzu.
https://imgur.com/5Gs9pz0

Abzu is rated "Low Multiversal"
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Abzu

In summary: the wailing wall is a dimensional border that separates Hell from Elyisum. It was destroyed by the combined might of 12 Gold saints focusing their cosmos to a single point. Similarly to how the AE is done, which would result in an infinite output of power generated.
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Hades also did manage to effortlessly keep himself alive, and stop his world from being erased by Cronus. As we can see that when he comes to say "Hi" to his father.

The feat of Cronus destroying the multiverse is here. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/391759

To understand the feat better. I will post a link explaining the cosmology of Saint Seiya.
https://imgur.com/a/JEejYjQ

Past, present, and future = alternate worlds.

This link explains that the multiverse is infinite.

https://imgur.com/a/GPLSP

Cronus stated that. "If you do not destroy me before they are all gone... Then everything both here and on Earth will collapse and end in ruin. And that not even Zeus will be able to avoid."

It would be illogical to think He wasn't trying to destroy Hades as well. He was very possibly trying to kill off all other olympians at the same time.

Summary of points here: Hades survived, and kept his worlds from being destroyed from Cronus.

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This one is going to get more controversy.

Let's review the evidence and scans of some of Hade's Underworld Cosmology.

In Saint Seiya Next Dimension. Shun was thrown 200 years into the past. Tenma who was with Shun at the time. Were in the Underworld of Hades.

Shun was astonished.
https://imgur.com/vBjtdxi

To see Seiya who is 200 years into the future walking to his death.
https://imgur.com/dpFCgcA

Logically Chronos should have been capable of reversing the time of the underworld to accomplish Athena's Wish.

Pontos in Episode G in order to reach the sealed Titans in Tartarus of Hades Underworld. He had to walk passed the "eternal Flow of time" the dimension of time itself.
https://imgur.com/r2gT3bQ

On the new Saint Seiya Official website. It says the 6th prison of the underworld is "Outside of time and space."
https://imgur.com/K4YcTZV

In Saint Seiya Omega we learn that the Underworld takes souls from other Worlds.
https://imgur.com/QEFzHKp

Now, why is this important? Because there is 2 other Gods who have similar feats. This is where everyone will think i am crazy.

"This is the End of Time."
https://imgur.com/M7XWkaV

"From here Past, present and future connect."
https://imgur.com/1o3BYoh

"This is a space beyond time."
https://imgur.com/4pOnYoU

Portuguese translations use "transcend time" rather than "Beyond time."

This is repeated several times in Saint Seiya Omega about the "End of time" dimension of Saturn.

Important Context is. "Here past, present, and future connect."

"This is a place where past, and future intersect. A kind of place that transcend time and space."
https://imgur.com/TLN22xI

This is the description of Chronoses "Lake of time."

Why is all of this important? Because we have a couple scans saying that Hades underworld is outside of, or "beyond" time and space.

We also see in Episode G, and Next Dimension it is a place that Past, and future intersect.

In Summary: Hades Underworld's are a beyond time and space. They are very similar to Saturn, and Chrono's realms.

In short: I think think its possible with this he could be upgraded to a higher tier. "

The link does not work.

Cropfist said:

The link does not work.

Click to expand...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tVI8BMXHcXFc79_zZhdNY91hufvQ2X43pkYYH75eGa0/edit?usp=sharing try this one.

Great stuff.

High 2-A upgrades?! Damn!!! If that were to happen, the entire Dragon Ball community will be salty as ****!

JohnCenaNation said:

High 2-A upgrades?! Damn!!! If that were to happen, the entire Dragon Ball community will be salty as ****!

Click to expand...

Let them. Facts and feats overrule it, but I'm idk if my report is concrete enough for it.

interesting interesting we need more input but looking good

Wow

Dangai Ichigo said:

Wow

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Is it alright if i ask what you mean by "wow?"

I am kinda impressed

Likely should message Matt about this. He's our local SS expert.

I will analyze the evidence when I have the time, but I'm usually very skeptical of these upgrades to High 2-A in the past.

If chronos views 5-D beings the way they view 3-Ds shouldn't he be 7-D and thus 1-C?

Matthew Schroeder said:

I will analyze the evidence when I have the time, but I'm usually very skeptical of these upgrades to High 2-A in the past.

Click to expand...

I understand. Take your time... and thank you..

This seems vague but possibly High 2-A seems fine

ZacharyGrossman273 said:

If chronos views 5-D beings the way they view 3-Ds shouldn't he be 7-D and thus 1-C?

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no.. no 7-D chronos...

ZacharyGrossman273 said:

This seems vague but possibly High 2-A seems fine

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by what do you mean by vague...?

None of the stuff linked is High 2-A.

This just shows space bending.

Kepekley23 said:

None of the stuff linked is High 2-A.
This just shows space bending.

Click to expand...

How is it not linked to it?

also that picture was just to show the visuals of the super dimensional space

Why not post a statement instead?

Kepekley23 said:

Why not post a statement instead?

Click to expand...

a statement of?

Of it being anything more than 4-D?

The lack of specific statement is why I think possibly high 2-A is best

Kepekley23 said:

Of it being anything more than 4-D?

Click to expand...

I posted my thoughts on it and how it matches brane cosmology. i could go more in depth about how the verse matches it. But its okay to not except it, but I do have one question. Is something "existing outside of time" considered 5-D or not?


{edit] by something i do mean like several series of universes.

i someone what understand the thoughts about how the super dimension could be 5D


I strongly support the Multiversal+ for Hades tho cause his universe is supported by his will and power and that universe didnt get destroyed by Cronos and we even see Hades speaking to cronos

AstralKing7 said:

i someone what understand the thoughts about how the super dimension could be 5D

I strongly support the Multiversal+ for Hades tho cause his universe is supported by his will and power and that universe didnt get destroyed by Cronos and we even see Hades speaking to cronos

Click to expand...

This would scale to Athena and God Cloths. But if we go by Typhon Episode G then Zeus and Typhon would need to have an upgrade too as it wouldn't make much Since...

but also the Dagger Cronus made in Episode G was capable of hurting Saturn. which i have a thread on Saturn here. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1713198


[Edit]

This dagger Cronus made

Part 2: https://imgur.com/0q5T9nU

was capable of hurting Saturn.

https://imgur.com/OAfc6BR

https://imgur.com/VbiFQYM

i'am pretty interested with the sixth underworld's prison is beyond time and space but this doesn't change the speed of Hades sadly

Won't comment on omega stuff, but seems fine, The Shijima/AE thing can't be scaled sense it's more of a chain reaction. The infinity thing can't be used without maybe dimensional tiering, but aside from that I agree, and fully support a Multiversal+ Hades.

The Gold Saints will prolly be upgraded to 3-A or Low 2-C in the future and that could push plenty of God characters slightly up, but I don't see any High 2-A evidence there.

Matthew Schroeder said:

The Gold Saints will prolly be upgraded to 3-A or Low 2-C in the future and that could push plenty of God characters slightly up, but I don't see any High 2-A evidence there.

Click to expand...

I do have a question about a possible 5-D cronus.. In Episode G the OG one befor assassins. We see Cronus create a Golden dagger. We later see this Dagger hurting Saturn.

I remember you said you haven't watched omega.. But i would reccomend giving it a watch. As Seiya with the Dagger with 9th sense and Saggatirus Gold [Edit} God cloth managed to pirece Saturns Chronotector with that dagger..

What are your thoughts on the other feats too? For example 2-B to Low 2-A Athena and Hades?

Considering the latest chapter of Saint Seiya implies there's only one version of the Primordial Gods (Like Pontos) in the multiverse, we are likely to get some upgrades in the future.

Yes definitely think some golds should be 3-A, the bronze saints and 9th sense golds in GA timeline should have enough feats to go 2-C in my opinion.

The Causality said:

i'am pretty interested with the sixth underworld's prison is beyond time and space but this doesn't change the speed of Hades sadly

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how so? this wiki has characters like Mxy who are beyond space time at immeasurable speed, and this obviously would be referring to the space time of an entire infinite multiverse so logically his speed should get a boost too.

I agree fully with upgrading Hades to Low 2-A/Infinite Multiverse level/ Multiverse+ level. Hades was sustaining his worlds through his "Divine will." He would have had to of protected his Underworld's from Cronuses multiverse erasing.

This in turn would scale a lot of characters up.

Just bumping this..

Yeah 2-A seems fine

Matthew Schroeder said:

The Gold Saints will prolly be upgraded to 3-A or Low 2-C in the future and that could push plenty of God characters slightly up, but I don't see any High 2-A evidence there.

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what about 2-B?

Or 2-A as there might be some evdince of Multiversal+ feats. Not that 5-D multiversal kind. What is your thoughts on that @Matt...

I can believe the 2B feats more than the 2A feats if I'm being honest

What about Athena in Gigamatchie light novel? Her tanking an attack while massively weakened from Omega capable of controlling time and space to an Infinite degree.


And Hades managed to keep his world protected through his divine will while cronus was destroying the Multiverse?


Should those not be considered Multiversal+ level..?