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Worlogog (Post-Crisis) revision

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Saksham_Gopal

Saksham_Gopal

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When going through DC pages I found there are many problems with Worlogog’s profile. Simply put, a lot of Worlogog’s abilities should be there as well as with enough source materials we could get a raise in Tier for the relic.

So here it is my Worlogog’s revision thread.


Higher-Dimensional Existence, Reality Warping, and Creation
Extant planned to journey to the end of time with Worlogog and create a new universe based on his own conception. Metron also states how this will allow him to have an existence that is far beyond their conceptual grasp.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/e/e9/Worlogog-Higher_Existence.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731095832


Possibly Power Nullification
Extant silenced Doctor Fate (writers most probably implying Hector Hall being stripped of powers)
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/8/89/Worlogog_-_Power_Nullification.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731102848




Time Manipulation and Causality Manipulation
Extant uses Worlogog to erase the day Jay Garrick got his speedforce powers and retconned his origins. Hourman uses time powers to reknit the time and keeping the original timeline flow intact without Timazo in it.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/f/f5/Worlogog_retcons_Jay_Part_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731103527
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/9/95/Warlogog_retcons_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731104843
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/1/18/Hourman_reknit_timeline.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731103350

Matter Manipulation and Existence Erasure
Extant turns Doctor Fate’s helmet into gold.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/9/95/Warlogog_retcons_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731104843

Extant then used his powers to erase JSA from existence 9the only reason it failed in the arc was that Hourman provided JSA protection from Extant with his piece of Worlogog)
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/d/d9/Warlogog_Existence_Erasure.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731124749

Doctor Fate creates an illusion to make Extant believe he succeeded.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/1/1c/Warlogog_Doctor_Fate_Illusion.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731124824


Space-Time Manipulation
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/d/d7/Worlogog_Timestream_end.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731125721


Law Manipulation & Technology Manipulation
Extant creates a reality where Newtonian laws were no longer applicable and it had a direct effect on the functioning of the Cosmic Rod and Boom Tubes.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/d/d4/Warlogog_Law_Manipulation.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731125953


Chaos Manipulation
Extant’s new reality was chaotic in nature.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/d/d4/Warlogog_Law_Manipulation.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731125953


Fate Manipulation
Extant can weave the skeins of Time and Fate as he sees fit.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/5/53/Warlogog_Fate.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731130402


Quantum Manipulation
Fills quantum foam between Atom Smasher's atoms with exotic matter.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/4/48/Warlogog_Quantum_Manipulation.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731130604


Scaling with Hourman
After his fight with Timazo, Hourman decides that keeping all of the portions to himself is a bad idea and decides to spread it across the multiverse in tiny fragments.

Hourman has access to the powers of an infinitesimal portion of Worlogog for one hour.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/7c/Warlogog_-_Hourman_wiki.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731130921

Mordru confirms that Hourman kept an infinitesimal portion of Worlogog.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/5/53/Warlogog_Fate.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731130402

Hourman splits Worlogog into fragments.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/f/fa/Warlogog_shaping_creation.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731131715




Precognition, Enhanced Senses, and Nigh-Omniscience



Hourman can foresee what will happen in the future.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/2/20/Warlogog_precognition.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731132130

Hourman perceives time in the same way that everyone reads facial expressions. And for him, the past, the present, and the future are all one and the same.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/c8/Warlogog_-_Nigh-Omniscience.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731132239

Extant recounts the pivotal events in Atom Smasher's life.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/8/8c/Warlogog_timeline_reading.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731133234

Mister Terrific reveals how a Worlogog user can read a timeline as if it were a book.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/7e/Warlogog_timeline_open_book.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731133304

Extant can see the past, present, and future all at once.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/1/18/Worlogog_Omniscient.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731140630


Time Stop
Hourman stops a big bang.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/c6/Warlogog_Time_Stop.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731132905



Acausality Type 1 and Type 4, Power Bestowal, and possible resistance against Existence Erasure, Time Manipulation, Age Manipulation.
Hourman granted JSA protection against the effects of Extant’s chronal. He also synced out their essence out of time stream to protect everyone from the same attack Extant used on Jay Garrick’s to alter his origin. Being phased out of timestream will also allow them to work without the worry of effect that follows up a cause.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/c2/Warlogog_Acausality.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731182410

Each member of the JSA was given a fifth of Hourman's abilities. This ability allowed them to resist Extant's entropic effects for four minutes.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/3/37/Worlogog_Hourman_gave_powers.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731183919





Stats


Attack Potency

Worlogog is rated Low 2-C by the Vsbattle wiki, based on one comment by Hourman, who describes it as a four-dimensional map of space-time. However, once we witness the feats that Worlogog users have accomplished, we'll realise that ranking it at Low 2-C isn't quite correct. So, with a little powerscaling and taking statements into consideration, I'll make a list of them.



Worlogog could be used to reshape creation in the wrong hands.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/f/fa/Warlogog_shaping_creation.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731131715

Metron mentions that the Worlogog reveals a fraction of the Source, and even that percentage is enough to blind an intellect. Metron here distinguishes this map by referring to it as the map of "ALL" time and space.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/9/90/Worlogog_all_time_and_space.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731135649

Metron is the creator of Worlogog which makes it a 4th world relic.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/78/Warlogog_a_relic_of_4th_world.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731140218

Doctor Fate required Mordru's help to figure out Worlogog's weakness because he couldn't beat Extant on his own.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/5/53/Warlogog_Fate.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731130402

Metron refers to it as the most powerful object in the universe, as well as a fragment of the eternal Source. It also transcends time and space.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/d/db/Worlogog_transcends_time_and_space.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731160432

Worlogog is also known as Philosopher Stone. It is a working model of the entire spacetime continuum from the big bang to the omega point.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/8/83/Worlogog_is_Philosopher_Stone.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731160850

Extant wiped the timestream in front of Metron, leaving him with no choice but to watch the events unfold helplessly.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/d/d7/Worlogog_Timestream_end.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731125721


Speed: Unknown

Durability: Unknown

Range: Universal+ to Complex Multiversal

Weaknesses: None notable


Final Tally: Worlogog should be at least Doctor Fate level because defeating Extant alone became impossible for him. Extant not only defeated the JSA, but he also created his own universe. In fact, it was the Mordru himself who assisted the JSA in defeating Extant because he was in the way of his creation domination. Finally, as Mordru pointed out, this was the unfinished portion of the Worlogog, and if he had the complete object, the story could have taken a different turn all along.




Proposed Tier: Atleast Low 2-C (Hourman stops and freezes a big bang for all eternity), 2-A (Worlogog made Extant more powerful than Doctor Fate. In wrong hands, Worlogog could reshape creation. It is called the map of all time and space) Probably Low 1-C to 1-C (Worlogog is a 4th world artifact and possibly stands on the same level by transcending time and space. With this Extant ended Timestream prematurely. Timestream exists beyond the laws of time and space and views all DCU timelines as discrete entities)
 
Last edited:
DaReaperMan said:
Ahem. Issues for the scans and have you read this page?
Click to expand...
I had a hard time comprehending the image link option because this was my first time starting a thread. But I've already written a full blog post on it, complete with citations. Also, because of that page you linked, I learned about keeping continuity errors in mind, which is why I largely included feats from the JSA series, which was written by a single author, to prevent unneeded discrepancies between two writers' points of view.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...isis)_CRT_(possible_addition_Hourman_profile)
 
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Antvasima said:
@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @Planck69 @Confluctor

What do you think about this?

For the record, it seems to largely make sense to me, but I think that the tier 1 statistics would be too speculative.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking the time to express your feedback. I primarily created it for the ability additions, and I'm more than ready for the tier reasoning arguments. Between, there's that 1-C argument I'm borrowing from Elizio33's cosmology blog. I noticed him adjusting the timestream from Low 1-C to maybe 1-C.
 
LordTracer said:
1-C is a definite no-no. Unless I’m missing something, nothing here meets the criteria for it. Low 1-C also seems kinda questionable, but it’s not as egregious as 1-C.

I’ll go over the powers and abilities later.
Click to expand...
That is why we have come together to talk about it. From a distance, I merely listed the assertions and the tier they correspond to. And to be entirely honest I also felt 1C seem far stretched but I left that for the discussion and simply took the face value I got for Timestream on the cosmology blog. But, so far, which tier do you think Worlogog belongs to?
 
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Saksham_Gopal said:
Proposed Tier: Atleast Low 2-C (Hourman stops and freezes a big bang for all eternity), 2-A (Worlogog made Extant more powerful than Doctor Fate. In wrong hands, Worlogog could reshape creation. It is called the map of all time and space) Probably Low 1-C to 1-C (Worlogog is a 4th world artifact and possibly stands on the same level by transcending time and space. With this Extant ended Timestream prematurely. Timestream exists beyond the laws of time and space and views all DCU timelines as discrete entities)
Click to expand...
I think Low 1-C works quite well for it, since it is a fourth dimensional device and theorised to be part of the Source. 1-C is questionable. We can disregard the Low 2-C bit completely imo
 
We need input from more of our knowledgeable members here.
 
Saksham_Gopal said:
Each member of the JSA was given a fifth of Hourman's abilities. This ability allowed them to resist Extant's entropic effects for four minutes.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/v..._powers.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731183919
Click to expand...
I don't get the subjective timeline stuff.
Saksham_Gopal said:
Extant can see the past, present, and future all at once.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/v...iscient.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210731140630
Click to expand...
So precognition,retrocognition and clairvoyance or enhanced senses or so.
 
I still think that scaling the Worlogog to Low 1-C from the true forms of the New Gods seems very speculative and uncertain.
 
Teezar said:
I don't get the subjective timeline stuff.

So precognition,retrocognition and clairvoyance or enhanced senses or so.
Click to expand...
The flaw was the same one that Mordru had pointed out. It was infinitesimal, but it allowed Dove to die once more, which emotionally affected Extant, and JSA took advantage of the opportunity to attack him in the shattered areas where their powers were working. Starman's powers, for example, were not meant to work in the universe Extant created, but he is shown using them at the point in history when he traveled. JSA essentially targeted him at his most vulnerable periods in the timeline.


Isn't viewing past, present, and future all at once is same as nigh-omniscience? There have been different claims that he is omniscient, and that nothing is hidden from Extant? The only things he didn't notice were the flaws that Warlogog's missing piece had created.

U2jU4RF.jpg

Hourman here mentions that flaw that made Extant blind for some moments.
 
I would have agreed if the statements did not come from Metron himself. Additionally and other supporting evidence, like power nulling Doc Fate and the time stream/creation related feats didn't exist further supports its tier.
 
Confluctor said:
That would be omniscience, unless its contradicted elsewhere.
Click to expand...
It wasn't contradicted. Leaving some certain points in the timeline because of the flaw Extant already foresee everything. He foresees the JSA coming together and Metron coming for his chair that he himself says was eons ago. The only thing he didn't see the points where the reality isn't as he supposed it to be and Dove dying again (that emotionally distracted him).

Hourman himself has feats of having being engaged in a war and at the same time doing commentary on the past and future. For example against 5d beings in the JLA run, Hourman was giving out statements like, "There is a conflict in the future. Vast conflict. Across worlds. Captain Marvel's arrival is the next sign and one of you dies today", "Superman will regain consciousness in eighteen minutes 37 seconds" or "I foresaw your coming Jay Garrick. For me, the past, present, and future are all one and the same"
 
Confluctor said:
I would have agreed if the statements did not come from Metron himself. Additionally and other supporting evidence, like power nulling Doc Fate and the time stream/creation related feats didn't exist further supports its tier.
Click to expand...
Wasn't that just an avatar of Metron as usual though?
 
I'm not sure, but I think this Worlogog was a major thing for Metron. He intended to retire shortly and hand on the title of space and time to Hourman in the future, as well as this artifact, which he created himself. When Metron's scheme with Hourman fails, he returns with the entire Warlogog and offers Hourman a millennium to prove whether or not he is genuinely worthy of the relic and his successor.
 
Antvasima said:
Wasn't that just an avatar of Metron as usual though?
Click to expand...
Perhaps it was, but I don't think their intelligence went through any change when they were in a lower dimension. Plus I cannot recall a moment where Metron made an exaggerated comment which wasn't backed up, he is usually more reliable than most people when it comes to his comments/claims.
 
Saksham_Gopal said:
I'm not sure, but I think this Worlogog was a major thing for Metron. He intended to retire shortly and hand on the title of space and time to Hourman in the future, as well as this artifact, which he created himself. When Metron's scheme with Hourman fails, he returns with the entire Warlogog and offers Hourman a millennium to prove whether or not he is genuinely worthy of the relic and his successor.
Click to expand...
Okay. It has never acted at anywhere near that high a level in practice though.
 
Confluctor said:
Perhaps it was, but I don't think their intelligence went through any change when they were in a lower dimension. Plus I cannot recall a moment where Metron made an exaggerated comment which wasn't backed up, he is usually more reliable than most people when it comes to his comments/claims.
Click to expand...
I meant that was the Worlogog an item on part with their true forms or just constructed by an avatar.
 
Antvasima said:
I meant that was the Worlogog an item on part with their true forms or just constructed by an avatar.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is its single flaw, which I was unable to overcome despite my two readings of Worlogog appearances. It's one of those characters/objects for which we get a lot of statements and scales but never sees their full practical potential with actual feats.
 
Saksham_Gopal said:
Yes, that is its single flaw, which I was unable to overcome despite my two readings of Worlogog appearances. It's one of those characters/objects for which we get a lot of statements and scales but never sees their full practical potential with actual feats.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It is uncertain.
 
Saksham_Gopal said:
Isn't viewing past, present, and future all at once is same as nigh-omniscience? There have been different claims that he is omniscient, and that nothing is hidden from Extant? The only things he didn't notice were the flaws that Warlogog's missing piece had created.
Click to expand...
Nigh omniscient but still should still have.
Precognition
Retrocognition
Enhanced senses or clairvoyance
Saksham_Gopal said:
It wasn't contradicted. Leaving some certain points in the timeline because of the flaw Extant already foresee everything. He foresees the JSA coming together and Metron coming for his chair that he himself says was eons ago. The only thing he didn't see the points where the reality isn't as he supposed it to be and Dove dying again (that emotionally distracted him).

Hourman himself has feats of having being engaged in a war and at the same time doing commentary on the past and future. For example against 5d beings in the JLA run, Hourman was giving out statements like, "There is a conflict in the future. Vast conflict. Across worlds. Captain Marvel's arrival is the next sign and one of you dies today", "Superman will regain consciousness in eighteen minutes 37 seconds" or "I foresaw your coming Jay Garrick. For me, the past, present, and future are all one and the same"
Click to expand...
But viewing timeline as a book should be nigh omnipresent like other characters I might have seen with the same.
 
Nigh Omniscience is being able to process almost all information in a continuum simultaneously, not merely being able to access small parts of it at a time.
 
Yes.

So what are our conclusions here so far?
 
Antvasima said:
Yes.

So what are our conclusions here so far?
Click to expand...
Despite the fact that we have no direct feat, I suppose there haven't been many complaints to putting it at Low 1-C. Apart from that, I don't see anyone opposing most of the abilities so far, with the exception of near-omniscience, which is now being debated. Teezar stated that while near-omniscience is beneficial, we should also consider Precognition, enhanced sense, or clairvoyance. And, I believe, Confluctor hinted that having him reside in a higher dimensional realm is sufficient and that we may skip nigh-omniscience because a higher dimensional being will already read lower dimensions like a book. It would have been preferable if we had gotten more feedback on it from knowledgeable members.
 
I definitely think that we should stick to the power levels that we can actually prove, meaning scaling from being more powerful than Doctor Fate.

However, take note that the incarnations of Doctor Fate differ a lot in power levels, so we would have to scale from the right version.

Also, I think that there was a revision thread for Doctor Fate headed by @Sandman31 some months ago that intended to downgrade him, but which never went anywhere.
 
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