Wind Fish Downgrade (Legend of Zelda)

[Cyberblader90]

Going to be executed for this

Wind Fish

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... I AM THE WIND FISH... LONG HAS BEEN MY SLUMBER... IN MY DREAMS... AN EGG APPEARED AND WAS SURROUNDED BY AN ISLAND, WITH PEOPLE, ANIMALS, AN ENTIRE WORLD! ... ... ... ... BUT, VERILY, IT BE THE NATURE OF DREAMS TO END! WHEN I DOST AWAKEN, KOHOLINT WILL BE GONE...

vsbattles.fandom.com

> Attack Potency: At least Universe level, possibly Universe level+ (Created an entire universe by dreaming[1], which he later completely erased by waking up, said universe possibly having it's own space-time)

Got some issues with this:

This is the primary scan for universal wind fish. Notice how it says Link doesnt actually know if it was a parallel universe. We have no actual confirmation of it beinbg one.

other problems:
the Zelda encyclopedia calls the world of the Wind Fish illusionary on multiple pages, characters state nothing is beyond the island in Hyrule Historia and only the island disappears in the remakes ending.

As for the supposed stars in the background, they are never confirmed to be stars, and they are actually accessed via staircase inside the wind fish's egg. The island also disappears but the "stars" are left intact, with link being sent flying by a water spout AFTER the island disappears.

A minor issue, but link can breathe in this supposed space.

Nightmares
Why are nightmares high 6-a? They are scaled to this Link, who is then circularly scaled back to them.

Conclusion: Windfish should just be unknown, since the realm is stated to be an illusion. Otherwise, just scale to the island he was sustaining. Nightmares need something else to scale off.

 

[Armorchompy]

I agree with this. Good luck debating it tho

 

[Dust_Collector]

I think the Wind Fish should be 1-A, for I shall argue his dream world is a platonic realm beyon-

Yeah the realm being called an illusion kinda screws over any chance of it being a real full blown universe, I don't mind tossing universal wind fish into the trash.

 

[Cyberblader90]

should also mention only the island disappears in the original games as well

 

[DaReaperMan]

I agree with this, but have fun debating it

 

[ShrekAnakin]

Imma get Sir Ploz in on the case here, or any other Zelda supporters.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i think ploz left

and im pretty sure the main counter argument will be the timeline/cosmology chart

 

[TheGatememer]

Anyways if it really is just an illusion, the rating should go probably

 

[Starter_Pack]

My street cred is about to plummet like mad, yo!

But seriously, I was never really okay with all of Koholint Island being its own universe, and was only okay with, at the very most, it being a star-filled pocket dimension. And even that was a stretch for me considering you only see the stars on the climb to the Wind Fish.

Suffice to say, I fully support this downgrade.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

This seems okay to me.

 

[Theglassman12]

If the island disappears when the wind fish awakens wouldn't it make it 6-C? Unless that doesn't count for creation standards? Either way this looks fine, though what's the new ratings gonna be if the 4-A and 3-A to Low 2-C ratings aren't gonna cut it?

 

[Cyberblader90]

Triforce I think it might still scale there because of the dark world feat

 

[Maskofthedragon]

Anyways if it really is just an illusion, the rating should go probably

The Goddesses still exist

 

[Cyberblader90]

I guess my issue with applying any rating for the feat is the fact that it's called an illusionary world twice

 

[Theglassman12]

wouldn't the dark world feat be considered just reality warping as opposed to sustaining or creating/destroying something?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Minor things

they are never confirmed to be stars,

That’s... weird logic. Light dots on a black background up high always defaults to stars, unless something within the story itself says otherwise. You also didn’t propose it being anything else.

A minor issue, but link can breathe in this supposed space.

Minor issue, Link can attack ghosts/Poes in games with just a Bow & Arrow.


As for the rest, I have nothing else to add. Not knowledge in Zelda scaling.

 

[Theglassman12]

@ElixirBlue he did have a proposal.

Conclusion: Windfish should just be unknown, since the realm is stated to be an illusion. Otherwise, just scale to the island he was sustaining. Nightmares need something else to scale off.

 

[Cyberblader90]

I'm pretty sure we have pocket dimension standards do we not?

The supposed Stars exist within the windfish's egg which is depicted as just being a cavern

 

[Cyberblader90]

Minor things




That’s... weird logic. Light dots on a black background up high always defaults to stars, unless something within the story itself says otherwise. You also didn’t propose it being anything else.




Minor issue, Link can attack ghosts/Poes in games with just a Bow & Arrow.


As for the rest, I have nothing else to add. Not knowledge in Zelda scaling.

To my knowledge being able to interact with ghosts is something normally link can do in any game or at least most of them even as a child. Take ocarina of Time for example

 

[ElixirBlue]

@ElixirBlue he did have a proposal.

I meant for the stars, not about the world itself. I was directly addressing whether they were stars or not.

 

[ElixirBlue]

To my knowledge being able to interact with ghosts is something normally link can do in any game or at least most of them even as a child. Take ocarina of Time for example

Well, yes. But how often has link gone into space? (Wind fish would be the first to my knowledge)

Every other time, like sky islands, the Oocca in Twilight, Link doesn’t suffer from oxygen depletion.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

That’s... weird logic. Light dots on a black background up high always defaults to stars

AFAIK we never do that, it has to be proven they are real stars

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

AFAIK we never do that, it has to be proven they are real stars

^Correct, as per our Pocket Reality Feats standards

 

[Eficiente]

I said this before and got ignored and cut off w/o finishing to say what I had to, I give kudos to this thread.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It was actually brought up in a previous thread, but Link's Awakening HD actually debunked it being an illusion. And there were even descriptions regarding the seas and the stars in the skies. While it being "A parallel Universe" may or may not be something considered dated given it's referring to the old version of LA, but it's still a 4-A feat at bare minimum.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ngl any way this thread goes, I’ll support it. Whether it’s a downgrade or a debunk.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I know AshenCrow said he lost interest in Zelda threads, but he was one of the people who worked really hard on this so I asked him too anyway.

 

[Cyberblader90]

It was actually brought up in a previous thread, but Link's Awakening HD actually debunked it being an illusion. And there were even descriptions regarding the seas and the stars in the skies. While it being "A parallel Universe" may or may not be something considered dated given it's referring to the old version of LA, but it's still a 4-A feat at bare minimum.

this is taken out of context to a degree. Windfish refers to the world SURROUNDING the egg, not in the egg.


the supposed stars are inside the egg, and they dont disappear when the island vanishes

As for the supposed stars in the background, they are never confirmed to be stars, and they are actually accessed via staircase inside the wind fish's egg. The island also disappears but the "stars" are left intact, with link being sent flying by a water spout AFTER the island disappears.

 

[Cyberblader90]

lets say i agree the stars are real, for arguments sake, and that windfish made them. His awakening destroys only the island. Per current creation standards, windfish would require either a universal energy system or comparable ap feat/scaling, which it doesnt have.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That's not where the statement comes from, it came from some statement when you read a tablet in one of the underground temples. I may need to look at that previous thread to find it though.

Edit: It was here. And oh yeah, I actually forgot it did still use the word "Illusion", not sure if that's meant to be literal. But it does confirm the sky and seas are part of Koholint Island and they vanish too.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Wasn't it also called a parallel world here, being compared to things like the Dark World which is a confirmed seperate universe?

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Also wouldn't "illusion" just be a weird term of dream world under this context, due to Link being able to actually die within this world?

 

[Cyberblader90]

The ‘Other Realms and Lands’ page doesn’t list the Wind Fish’s dream world alongside equivalent realms like Lorule or the Twilight Realm either, instead relegating it to its own paragraph and treating it as a special case. Not to mention that entire world map is a bit wonky. They list the Wind Fish’s dream as its own world despite actual ingame cutscenes showing the island physically existing out in the open ocean, whereas the Sacred Realm and Lorule are both designated as kingdoms rather than realms which is ehhhhh. Hell, the Dark World is listed as an alternate dimension whilst the Sacred Realm isn’t, even though they’re the exact same place.

Lets say it was correct, again for argument sake:

lets say i agree the stars are real, for arguments sake, and that windfish made them. His awakening destroys only the island. Per current creation standards, windfish would require either a universal energy system or comparable ap feat/scaling, which it doesnt have.

Also wouldn't "illusion" just be a weird term of dream world under this context, due to Link being able to actually die within this world?

The game says this about it:


Also we have no context as to what the death entails. it is in gameplay. It would be the equilavant of dying still getting game overs in Super Mario Bros. 2, which is also shown to be a dream.

 

[Cyberblader90]

That's not where the statement comes from, it came from some statement when you read a tablet in one of the underground temples. I may need to look at that previous thread to find it though.

Edit: It was here. And oh yeah, I actually forgot it did still use the word "Illusion", not sure if that's meant to be literal. But it does confirm the sky and seas are part of Koholint Island and they vanish too.

ohI I didnt see your edit

I dont think this is referring to the "stars". they remain perfectly intact after the island vanishes, and we only see the island go.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Specific video says "Human, Monster, Sea, Sky" included as part of Koholint that will vanish.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Specific video says "Human, Monster, Sea, Sky" included as part of Koholint that will vanish.

Feats>Statments

 

[Cyberblader90]

the sky over the island. The stars "arent" part of that
ingame you visit the egg, go in it, end up in a cavern, and climb stairs to the stars

the egg vanishes with the island, yet the starry area with link are still intact

 

[PrinceofPein]

Okay, I have no knowledge in Zelda or anything but i read through the thread and let me ask.
If you dream something, is the dream not an Illusion cause it is not real to you the dreamer?

 

[SamanPatou]

I totally agree with this, I always thought the feat was iffy on the first place, and I never quite understood why it would scale to any other character's AP instead of just being a specific ability of the Wind Fish.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm still of the opinion that the feat is very iffy, especially to scale to mr. fish's AP. After all... he just dreams it. He doesn't summon it or sustain it with his life force, it simply is something he unconsciously does when he rests.