Why is the Monitor-Mind The Overvoid High 1-A?

[OGLimitless]

Here is the page, this is coming from:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Monitor-Mind_The_Overvoid

So there justification for this would be:

"Attack Potency: High Outerverse level (The Monitor-Mind is the unconscious void of nothingness that lies as the background of all creation, standing utterly devoid of definition, beyond the crumbling ledge of the Source Wall wherein Thought itself ceases to be and all dual concepts are dissolved into unity. Represents the white canvas of the comicbook itself, being the ground of being in which all characters and concepts of DC Comics are drawn in, and acting as the middle ground between the fictional reality occupied by them and the world of the Writer)"

And here is the definition for High 1-A:

"High 1-A | High Outerverse level: Characters who can affect and create/destroy states or realms which are completely transcendent over infinitely-layered Outerversal hierarchies and any extensions thereof, as well as the framework in which such entities are defined in the first place. Note that simply adding more "layers" to an already infinite 1-A hierarchy (or some structure of equivalent size) is not enough to reach this tier, and one must be completely external and unreachable by it in any form."

So there justification doesn't fit the denotation for High 1-A. High 1-A is being transcendent of a infinite layered outerversal hierarchy, mathematical wise being transcendent of ℵΩ.

 

[JohnConquest1]

Wrong subforum, repost your thread here.

 

[Xearsay]

It actually does fit. Notice how it saids “…as well as the framework in which sub entities are defined in the first place.” The Overvoid is beyond all ideas and is literally undefinable to the 1-A multiverse. Which is why it was given a high 1-A rating.

 

[OGLimitless]

It actually does fit. Notice how it saids “…as well as the framework in which sub entities are defined in the first place.” The Overvoid is beyond all ideas and is literally undefinable to the 1-A multiverse. Which is why it was given a high 1-A rating.

No, so being undefinable to a 1-A structure is never stated in the High 1-A definition. High 1-A is simply being beyond all extensions of 1-A, which is being beyond ℵΩ. That's the entire reason being transcendent of the Infinite layered 1-A hierarchy is High 1-A in the first place, essentially being beyond a infinite layered 1-A hierarchy with each layer being inaccessible to the bottom one, would qualify for the next aleph, etc. So the infinite layered 1-A hierarchy would essentially be ℵΩ. So being undefinable to a 1-A realm isn't within the definition of 1-A, and your misinterpreting High 1-A.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

its getting downgraded anyway in the future revisions

 

[OGLimitless]

its getting downgraded anyway in the future revisions

That sounds good, DC honestly doesn't get past 1-A.

 

[Xearsay]

No, so being undefinable to a 1-A structure is never stated in the High 1-A definition.

I guess I should have worded it better, but the Overvoid is the ground of being for the DCU representing the page where stories are drawn. All beings in the DCU from regular people to the 1-A cosmics and realms are all regarded as basically nothing but stories on the Overvoid which transcends the story that encompasses them on a fundamental level. Pushing it beyond the framework of story that defines existence(1-A).

High 1-A is simply being beyond all extensions of 1-A, which is being beyond ℵΩ. That's the entire reason being transcendent of the Infinite layered 1-A hierarchy is High 1-A in the first place, essentially being beyond a infinite layered 1-A hierarchy with each layer being inaccessible to the bottom one, would qualify for the next aleph, etc. So the infinite layered 1-A hierarchy would essentially be ℵΩ. So being undefinable to a 1-A realm isn't within the definition of 1-A, and your misinterpreting High 1-A

That’s not what I heard. I heard that a verse doesn’t actually need a cosmology that contains a 1-A hierarchy for it to reach high 1-A. As long as the cosmology proves it’s beyond the very nature in which outerversal is defined it can qualify for the tier.

 

[OGLimitless]

I guess I should have worded it better, but the Overvoid is the ground of being for the DCU representing the page where stories are drawn. All beings in the DCU from regular people to the 1-A cosmics and realms are all regarded as basically nothing but stories on the Overvoid which transcends the story that encompasses them on a fundamental level. Pushing it beyond the framework of story that defines existence(1-A).

That’s not what I heard. I heard that a verse doesn’t actually need a cosmology that contains a 1-A hierarchy for it to reach high 1-A. As long as the cosmology proves it’s beyond the very nature in which outerversal is defined it can qualify for the tier.

1. You just defined a fictional/conceptual transcendence, that would only be enough to reach the next aleph

2. You probably heard false info, you can read the definition of High 1-A yourself. High 1-A simply is being beyond all extensions of 1-A, which would include ℵΩ.

 

[sanicspood]

Nerds

 

[JohnConquest1]

Wrong subforum, repost your thread here.

 

[OGLimitless]

Nerds

bruh

 

[Xearsay]

1. You just defined a fictional/conceptual transcendence, that would only be enough to reach the next aleph

Yes, a fictional/conceptual transcendence over the framework that defines 1-A. Which is high 1-A.

2. You probably heard false info, you can read the definition of High 1-A yourself. High 1-A simply is being beyond all extensions of 1-A, which would include ℵΩ.

The thing is you haven’t given me a reason for why a verse would need a 1A+ hierarchy within their cosmology to prove they’re beyond all extensions of 1A. You’ve just been telling me that it’s required and expecting me to appeal to your authority.

 

[OGLimitless]

Yes, a fictional/conceptual transcendence over the framework that defines 1-A. Which is high 1-A.


The thing is you haven’t given me a reason for why a verse would need a 1A+ hierarchy within their cosmology to prove they’re beyond all extensions of 1A. You’ve just been telling me that it’s required and expecting me to appeal to your authority.

No, your basically adding onto the definition of High 1-A, being fictionally above the framework on a realm that is 1-A is never stated in High 1-A.

I have gave you a reason, because it's the definition of High 1-A, plus I've told you how High 1-A works, if you think I haven't gave you any reasoning, then I don't think your reading or comprehending what I'm telling you.

 

[Rikimarox2]

1. You just defined a fictional/conceptual transcendence, that would only be enough to reach the next aleph

2. You probably heard false info, you can read the definition of High 1-A yourself. High 1-A simply is being beyond all extensions of 1-A, which would include ℵΩ.

You don't need an infinite 1-A hierarchy in order to be High 1-A. If there is evidence that the being in question is beyond the very framework of the 1-A hierarchy, then they can qualify for High 1-A. Hell, it's the same for other tiers as well. You don't need a High 1-B hierarchy to be 1-A, just look at the Root from Fate, whom iirc the verse doesn't even have infinite dimensions.

 

[Xearsay]

No, your basically adding onto the definition of High 1-A, being fictionally above the framework on a realm that is 1-A is never stated in High 1-A.

You’re right but I’m not saying the Overvoid is only fictionally transcendent to a 1-A realm. Im saying it’s beyond all stories. And since story is the framework that defines existence, there could be a story about an infinite amount of outerversal realms stacked on top of each other and it would still be bound to the Overvoid.

I have gave you a reason, because it's the definition of High 1-A, plus I've told you how High 1-A works, if you think I haven't gave you any reasoning, then I don't think your reading or comprehending what I'm telling you.

No where in the definition does it say a verses cosmology must have a 1-A+ hierarchy for it to reach high 1-A. Yes high 1-A requires one to be beyond all extensions of 1-A but that doesn’t mean a cosmology needs a 1-A+ hierarchy to reach such a state.

 

[OGLimitless]

You don't need an infinite 1-A hierarchy in order to be High 1-A. If there is evidence that the being in question is beyond the very framework of the 1-A hierarchy, then they can qualify for High 1-A. Hell, it's the same for other tiers as well. You don't need a High 1-B hierarchy to be 1-A, just look at the Root from Fate, whom iirc the verse doesn't even have infinite dimensions.

You realized what you just said

"If there is evidence that the being in question is beyond the very framework of the 1-A hierarchy"

You go to say, you don't need a infinite 1-A hierarchy, but then talk about being beyond the framework on a 1-A hierarchy.

If you think I'm misinterpreting it, just say what I'm interpreting wrong.

But the Root fits the definition for 1-A.

 

[OGLimitless]

You’re right but I’m not saying the Overvoid is only fictionally transcendent to a 1-A realm. Im saying it’s beyond all stories. And since story is the framework that defines existence, there could be a story about an infinite amount of outerversal realms stacked on top of each other and it would still be bound to the Overvoid.


No where in the definition does it say a verses cosmology must have a 1-A+ hierarchy for it to reach high 1-A. Yes high 1-A requires one to be beyond all extensions of 1-A but that doesn’t mean a cosmology needs a 1-A+ hierarchy to reach such a state.

1. Your now presupposing there is a infinite amount of 1-A realms stacking on top of each other without any evidence.

2. Do you know the extensions of 1-A? Basically, it's ℵΩ. Now, I never said you had to have a infinite layered 1-A hierarchy within the verse. All I'm saying is you have to be beyond all extensions of 1-A which would be ℵΩ, the infinite layered 1-A hierarchy that is inaccessible to the bottom layer is one way of doing so.

 

[Winzy]

No, so being undefinable to a 1-A structure is never stated in the High 1-A definition. High 1-A is simply being beyond all extensions of 1-A, which is being beyond ℵΩ. That's the entire reason being transcendent of the Infinite layered 1-A hierarchy is High 1-A in the first place, essentially being beyond a infinite layered 1-A hierarchy with each layer being inaccessible to the bottom one, would qualify for the next aleph, etc. So the infinite layered 1-A hierarchy would essentially be ℵΩ. So being undefinable to a 1-A realm isn't within the definition of 1-A, and your misinterpreting High 1-A.

You do know that verse doesn't necessarily have an infinite dimensional cosmology right?

 

[Swerzye29038]

You don't need an infinite 1-A hierarchy in order to be High 1-A.

No one said this was the case.

If there is evidence that the being in question is beyond the very framework of the 1-A hierarchy, then they can qualify for High 1-A

that’s fine and dandy, but no one was arguing against this either. Furthermore, this isn’t the case for DC comics.