Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,863
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You dare steal my phrase?
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When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)
- Thread starter QuasiYuri
- Start date
- Status
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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The endpoint thing is clearly just a hyperbolic way to express their fear of the risks associated with the creator. They stall their journey because they don't want to fall and crumble into nothingness.
The first thing is the text itself adding that one can say their journey is one to escape an endpoint. Adding onto what Yuri said, the journey along the ladder does have a defined "endpoint", as it ends at the creator. You can even get closer to the world of gods, which wouldn't make sense if it was outside the heirarchy.
Moreover, Lambda herself makes it clear that the reason she doesn't go to the deeper levels is because she is afraid. Not that it's out of her reach.
The first thing is the text itself adding that one can say their journey is one to escape an endpoint. Adding onto what Yuri said, the journey along the ladder does have a defined "endpoint", as it ends at the creator. You can even get closer to the world of gods, which wouldn't make sense if it was outside the heirarchy.
Moreover, Lambda herself makes it clear that the reason she doesn't go to the deeper levels is because she is afraid. Not that it's out of her reach.
Darksmash
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The Kanji used there which was translated as "heirarchy" can also be translated as layer/class/stratum etc
Guardian_Doge
He/Him- 623
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Following.
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Disagree via Ovy7 reasons
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I disagree FRA
DarlingAurora
She/Her- 1,454
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I disagree too.
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Being plural or not have never having a thing to do with not being tier 0, the thing is the third domain doens't exist, never be mentioned and just accepted her by a hyperbol text that show to be contradicted in story (And it's only here that a thing as vague as this would be accepted)
And being undbound from all restrictions is not a thing only for tier 0
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,886
- 5,785
And again if the creator is truly tier 0 won't featherine be infinitely into high 1A as she touched the boundary of the creator domain. But in this wiki she is baseline High 1A which will make the creator domain another layer of High 1A, so yea the creator's or featherine's (definitely the creator) current rating is wrong whether this gets accepted or not the
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Being baseline H1A does not mean there is no tier 0 realm/being
It just means there are no other H1A realms besides the one u are in
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,886
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Except she was said to touch the domain of the creator which means she touched the said tier 0 world but refrained from going on cause she will lose herself. So how is baseline H1A touching a tier 0 world?
And since she can move up to the creator's realm it is just a single transcendence and not enough to say creator is outside the entire hierachy
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I disagree with this based on what Ovy and Ultima have said.
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She was at the last step but refused to go as she would lose herself
The H1A realm is not touching the 0 realm, is the person doing that
Not how ot works, u dont need an infinite hierarchy of H1A realms to prove the other is 0
U just need to show that the 0 realm will never be reached no matter how many H1A realms there are etc.
The verse can have 1 or a million H1A realms and the creator realm would still be 0 as no matter what extension of H1A u create it will never reach it
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Except that it's not show as like we tell Featherine have reached it but not enter it.
And anyways featherine should never be high 1-A in first
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,886
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And again this is exactly it, feathrine could reach it from her own said H1A realm
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The realm is H1A and so is she for being able to be there etc. She in turn could reach a higher level but refuses to do it
So until she crosses that final step she will still remain H1A
If ur argument is "she can reach it therefore H1A" that's not really how it works, that just means she has the potential to reach that level
Guardian_Doge
He/Him- 623
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"No restrictions" is a confusing state of being for the creator. It's more like their existence becomes so great everything below them in creation is no longer interactable with.
As for multiple creators thing, I think there is two kinds. A rank (for beings like featherine) and zero restrictions, but that is my interpretation which I don't think will contribute much to this thread anyway. It can be solved in another thread.
I still have no solid opinion for the hierarchy stuff. I'll wait for yuri and ultima/ovy to finish the dispute.
As for multiple creators thing, I think there is two kinds. A rank (for beings like featherine) and zero restrictions, but that is my interpretation which I don't think will contribute much to this thread anyway. It can be solved in another thread.
I still have no solid opinion for the hierarchy stuff. I'll wait for yuri and ultima/ovy to finish the dispute.
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Not really talking but umineko perse and more bout the whole "1 H1A realm/baseline H1A cant have toer 0 on verse/cant reach tear 0"
Just using umineko as an example
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I agree with most neutral on creators.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,886
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This it in self makes no sense, she is within a said H1A hierarchy but she can move out at will?
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there are verses were characters can become tier 0 but dont do it or can reach a higher level of existence but refuse to do it for one reason or another
but since she never crossed to the creator domain she remains H1A and not 0
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except the creator domain never showed a anough transcend for the thing, like he tell if a high 1-A can go into this layer whenever he would want, no reason to be tier 0 when it's the only reason it's tier 0 in first like it's only tier 0 because above feath but the trnascendance is not to the point she will never reach it as she can go whenever she want in so it's just higher high 1-A
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,886
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The moment 0 does not exist outside and is accessible to h1A it is no longer tier 0. And why bring other verses to this? I am sure the context is different and not the same thing as this
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kinda is, they can become tier 0 but chose not to do so as they could either lose themselves or would be absorbed into the OG tier 0 of the verse
just bringing other verses to show that the whole "can be tier 0 but does not do it" is a thing
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Not how that works, though. TC's Tier 0 rating is because it's supposedly inaccessibly above the entire verse including characters like Featherine. This is already invalid and false if she's able to reach its realm and even become one.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,886
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that can is what i am saying it is suppose to be inaccessible
so which other verse does this? WOG or Twin peaks?
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Also TES
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The point is, you can't make the argument that "Featherine can be Tier 0 if she wants" when the whole point of TC's Tier 0 was being inaccessibly above the verse, which specifically included Featherine, who is currently the only High 1A character in Umineko. Featherine being able to reach TC contradicts this, so it wouldn't be inaccessible. No further context was given either. It wouldn't be viable for Tier 0. Damn, first Shinza, then Lovecraft (almost), now Umineko, soon DC. What's next? Downgrade Twin Peaks and SCP to solar system level?
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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This sums up my issues with Creator being "inaccessibly" above the heirarchy. At this point it just seems more like a formality to make Umineko 1-A rather than genuine attempt at trying to go for accurate tiering.
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There seems to be reason to keep it at 1A, but like you just said the contradictions go against that
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fully agree with this
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Because Nasu is always high when he writes his stories
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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I don't see any concrete reasons other than "0 restrictions no ground :0" which doesn't really have any correlation to being inaccessibly above the heirarchy, and directly ignores the fact that it can be reached by climbing the heirarchy. Plus more stuff pain explained
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Well, you could honestly argue that it's this whole 0 restrictions thing that could grant 1A through being unrestricted and above the very framework of the hierarchy itself, but that is contradicted by what was said earlier, anyway
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