W.I.T.C.H. Guardians Speed Upgrade (Infinite Speed)

[LordGriffin1000]

It's time for my attempt to upgrade the Guardians speed to infinite at full power. I'll try to make this as simple as possible and hopefully this doesn't turn chaotic.

First things first, let's look at our description for infinite speed...

Infinite Speed (Able to travel anywhere instantly, or move an infinite distance within a finite amount of time. Teleportation does not count. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below.)

As for evaluating the feats further, it states...

"When evaluating speed feats resulting in infinite speed a high amount of scrutiny should be applied. Speed feats of this nature frequently turn out to be Outliers and statements regarding infinity are prone to be Hyperbole. One should consider whether it is more plausible and consistent to assume that the abilities creating infinite distance or zero time were resisted, circumvented or nullified instead, or if Teleportation or similar were employed. Filling or lightning up infinite-sized realms must require substantial amounts of evidence. But if the intent for the infinite-sized realm is clear and repeatedly hammered in multiple times, then there's no reason to assume otherwise and it should be acceptable"

So with this information, let's begin.

Infinite Size Universes

In this blog (which is already accepted), I explain the Cosmology of which and how the universes are infinite in size. You can read it yourself under the "Infinite Sized Universes" section but I'll be quoting from the blog to make it easier.

I will show why Kandrakar is infinite in size and why the universe Earth resides in is infinite in size...

In Part 4. Trial of the Oracle Volume 3, Chapter 46 The Strength of Courage Page 121 to 122, Phobos jumps off the fortress of congregation and states he'll fall through nothingness for all eternity. Irma than confirmed this on the next page.

I'll fall through nothingness for all eternity...

Next Page

Tell me he didn't really do that.

What? Jump into the infinite void, thus condemning himself to float in nothingness for centuries?

This confirmed that Kandrakar is infinite in size.

In Part 5. The Book of the Elements Volume 1, Chapter 49 Between Dream and Reality Page 9, we learn from Eric that the universe which Earth resides in is infinite.

Endless...

Like the universe!

Myriad galaxies made up of billions of stars, planets, nebulae, and black holes...

Did you know that black holes are like gaping voids in space and absorb gas from stars around them?

Um...no! I admit there's a...black hole in my brain!

And that there are huge galaxies that contain up to a thousand billion stars?

We just know a fraction of the infinite space around us... the exploration will go on forever.

This is even more evidence that the universes in W.I.T.C.H. are infinite.

In Part 6. Ragorlang Volume 2, Chapter 69 Beyond Boarders Page 68 and 69, we learn that the universe is infinite and likely filled with infinite universes.

Do not forget you are the Guardians of the balance of the whole universe...

...and that you cannot just tend to your own garden

So here is a map of the worlds awaiting you.

It's moving!

Of course! It expands in every direction responding to your gaze. It is infinite... like the universe.

I bet after this infinite quest will need a rest!

And here is the list of the places you need to visit. The portal will guide you on your journey.

Next Page

Um... guys. I guess we can take our pick.

How 'bout we start from the bottom?

The Zanda universe! Let's tick the box...

Again, more evidence of an infinite size universe. There is a complete explanation in the blog that prove the scale of it all, this is just a quick showing of the main universe and Kandrakar are infinite because the speed feats involve those two universes.

Speed Feats

Elements Travel an Infinite Distance

Now that the infinite size universe evidence is provided, now it's time to move on to the feats.

In Part 7. New Power Volume 1, Chapter 75: Your Back to Who You Used to Be, Page 19. The Oracle tells the elements to fly to the Guardians. Said elements traveled from Kandrakar to Earth and reached the girls in a finite amount of time.

Since the elements started in the Fortress of Congregation which is in the center of Kandrakar/Infinity and traveled to Earth meaning they flew an infinite distance in a finite amount of time which is an infinite speed feat going by our description.

The Guardians scale to the elements speed because they are empowered by them in every aspect. It's even shown when they were at their full power and their elemental magic took form. The magic itself stated "I am you, your bodies and your minds", which means they are physically comparable to the elements themselves. It's also shown in the past that when a fraction of their power took form into the Changling, it could run a "inhuman speed". Showing their physical aspects are effected by their power.

So yes, the elements at their strongest can fly at infinite speed and the girls are empowered by them and are them in the physical sense. Not to mention when at full power in their previous state, they literally became the elements themselves, showing a future connection. However, if this isn't enough there is more...

The Guardians fly to Kandrakar

In the latest volume of the graphic novel, Part 9, 100% W.I.T.C.H. Volume 3, Chapter 109: The Green Truth, Page 12. The the Guardians elements start attacking them and Will wants answers, and in the next page, they are seen flying towards the Fortress of Congregation which is in the center of Kandrakar/Infinity and outside of the normal universe which it states in the scan itself!

This means the girls flew from their universe (which is infinite), to Kandrakar (which is infinite) in a short time. This straight up proves they have infinite speed like the elements themselves... but there's more!

A few pages later, the girls are transformed into their elements and sent back to Earth... by the Earth itself which is an infinite speed feat like the other two but considering it was done by an outside force, Im not sure if we should count it. However, it's clearly not needed.

Dark Mother Infinite Speed

In Part 7, New Power Volume 1, Chapter 75: Your Back to Who You Used to Be, Page 7 and 9. The Dark Mother used her magic to send the black seeds from Earth, across space and time and one eventually made it to Kandrakar.

As I've already proved this is an infinite speed feat but it can't really scale to here physically since she hasn't displayed such a feat.

In Part 7, New Power Volume 3, Chapter 83: Back to Kandrakar, Page 40. The Dark Mother used a magical plant that allowed her to travel as astral perfume and went from Earth to Kandrakar.

This is another infinite speed feat but it doesn't scale to her statistics just Travel speed with that plant.

Conclusion

The Guardians speed in part 7 - 9 should be rated as varies like their other statistics and it's high end should say...

Up to Infinite at full power (Empowered by the elements which flew from Kandrakar to the normal universe in a short time, and could fly from Earth to Kandrakar in a short time. The Earth resides in a separate universe from Kandrakar and both universes are infinite in size)

For the Dark Mother...

Infinite travel speed (With magic, she could send her black seeds from Earth, through time and space, eventually reaching Kandrakar. Has a special plant that allows her to become astral perfume and travel from Earth to Kandrakar in a short time. The Earth resides in a separate universe from Kandrakar and both universes are infinite in size)

 

[De6DimensionalDream]

It's quite interesting. Although I will say, since the verse doesn't really use the world multiverse, and rather uses the word univere either to mean the singular dimension or the great universe where all universes reside, is it possible that when they say universe they are just talking about the greater universe instead of the singular ones? What I mean is yes, Kandrajar is at the center of the great universe, which is infinite, and in the great universe there are smaller finite sized universes. I'm not claiming this is right, it's just something I wondered. Also just in cases there were any doubt, the oracle in the official Italian comic also calls them Universes, meaning they are not just planets, just in case.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It's quite interesting. Although I will say, since the verse doesn't really use the world multiverse, and rather uses the word univere either to mean the singular dimension or the great universe where all universes reside, is it possible that when they say universe they are just talking about the greater universe instead of the singular ones? What I mean is yes, Kandrajar is at the center of the great universe, which is infinite, and in the great universe there are smaller finite sized universes. I'm not claiming this is right, it's just something I wondered. Also just in cases there were any doubt, the oracle in the official Italian comic also calls them Universes, meaning they are not just planets, just in case.

Yeah, at times they refer to the universe as the entire multiverse and some times it's referring to a single universe. Other times reality is used for a planet but they also use world, dimension, and universe in the same sentence so context is important. Overall though Kandrakar is treated as infinite and the universe (that Earth resides in) is treated as infinite.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

And the next volume gonna give the Guardians layered conceptual fate hax at this rate.

Given that their powers fluctuate and the scans have the elements/WITCH crossing infinite universes, no inconsistencies would arise for the rating. My question is whether this would apply to their combat speed or just travel speed since all the feats involved are travel feats.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

And the next volume gonna give the Guardians layered conceptual fate hax at this rate.

Given that their powers fluctuate and the scans have the elements/WITCH crossing infinite universes, no inconsistencies would arise for the rating. My question is whether this would apply to their combat speed or just travel speed since all the feats involved are travel feats.

On our speed page it states that...

"If a character travels or flies very fast through a very empty terrain, in which it doesn't necessarily have to react to sudden obstacles, the speed in question is travel or flight speed, but not necessarily reaction speed. In order for it to also be reaction speed, and the speed in total hence applying to the character's combat speed, the character either must have demonstrated the ability to react to sudden obstacles while traveling at this speed, have a calculation made that supports the character having corresponding reaction speed/time or otherwise demonstrate having comparable reactions.

Simply being able to stop accurately at the target destination does typically not qualify, as it can be spotted from a large distance to make preparations to stop or the character could even slow down before reaching the destination, assuming we only know the average speed with which they moved.

The typical example of such cases of travel/flight speed that doesn't necessarily scale to reactions is space travel. As space is incredibly empty there are virtually no objects one has to navigate around between destinations. Just flying in a straight line from A to B would be safe. At the same time the typical destinations, such as stars and planets, are so large that they can easily be seen from millions of kilometers away. As a result a character would only need reactions equal to a miniscule fraction of their travel speed to perform a safe and precise landing on them."

I'm not sure if the bolded part can apply to infinite travel speed given a miniscule fraction of their travel speed would still be infinite but if it does, I guess will just put it as flight speed.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yeah that’s what I was iffy on. I’d say speak with other staff and go with what they conclude.

 

[KLOL506]

The CRT looks fine at a glance for scaling, but the evidence itself for infinite distances and infinite-sized universes seems to be as concrete as you can get. It being covered in a timeframe should also not matter at all, nor should covering it instantaneously matter, since infinity divided by anything is still infinity, and we really don't take acceleration into account for any of our speed feats as it becomes quite redundant pretty fast.

On our speed page it states that...

"If a character travels or flies very fast through a very empty terrain, in which it doesn't necessarily have to react to sudden obstacles, the speed in question is travel or flight speed, but not necessarily reaction speed. In order for it to also be reaction speed, and the speed in total hence applying to the character's combat speed, the character either must have demonstrated the ability to react to sudden obstacles while traveling at this speed, have a calculation made that supports the character having corresponding reaction speed/time or otherwise demonstrate having comparable reactions.

Simply being able to stop accurately at the target destination does typically not qualify, as it can be spotted from a large distance to make preparations to stop or the character could even slow down before reaching the destination, assuming we only know the average speed with which they moved.

The typical example of such cases of travel/flight speed that doesn't necessarily scale to reactions is space travel. As space is incredibly empty there are virtually no objects one has to navigate around between destinations. Just flying in a straight line from A to B would be safe. At the same time the typical destinations, such as stars and planets, are so large that they can easily be seen from millions of kilometers away. As a result a character would only need reactions equal to a miniscule fraction of their travel speed to perform a safe and precise landing on them."

I'm not sure if the bolded part can apply to infinite travel speed given a miniscule fraction of their travel speed would still be infinite but if it does, I guess will just put it as flight speed.

Yeah that’s what I was iffy on. I’d say speak with other staff and go with what they conclude.

The above standards really don't work once you reach the realms of Infinite Speed and higher. Like I already said, infinity divided by anything is still infinity, meaning your reactions and combat speed at that rate would also have to be equal to each other at that point.

 

[De6DimensionalDream]

The evidence for Kandrakar being infinite Is pretty clear. It's quote possibly One of the most clear cut case of infinite universe there Is. However, the evidence for Earth being infinite Is not quite so good in my opinion, not Is the fact that between earth and Kandrakar there Is an infinite distance, in my opinion. The fact that the girls can react that distance by mere Flight Is pretty clear MFL Speed though

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The CRT looks fine at a glance for scaling, but the evidence itself for infinite distances and infinite-sized universes seems to be as concrete as you can get. It being covered in a timeframe should also not matter at all, nor should covering it instantaneously matter, since infinity divided by anything is still infinity, and we really don't take acceleration into account for any of our speed feats as it becomes quite redundant pretty fast.



The above standards really don't work once you reach the realms of Infinite Speed and higher. Like I already said, infinity divided by anything is still infinity, meaning your reactions and combat speed at that rate would also have to be equal to each other at that point.

Thanks for the evaluation.

The evidence for Kandrakar being infinite Is pretty clear. It's quote possibly One of the most clear cut case of infinite universe there Is. However, the evidence for Earth being infinite Is not quite so good in my opinion, not Is the fact that between earth and Kandrakar there Is an infinite distance, in my opinion. The fact that the girls can react that distance by mere Flight Is pretty clear MFL Speed though

Well we're told that the universe Earth resides in is endless, has a myriad of galaxies in it, and that it's exploration would go on forever. Either way since Kandrakar is infinite in size the girls would still have infinite speed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with what KLOL said.

 

[De6DimensionalDream]

Well we're told that the universe Earth resides in is endless, has a myriad of galaxies in it, and that it's exploration would go on forever. Either way since Kandrakar is infinite in size the girls would still have infinite speed.

Well the source itself is a bit dubious. Eric might be smart but he is still a kid and it's unlikely he is a reliable source like the oracle. Also while Kadrakar is not techincly infinite, it's at the center of the infinite universe, which contains all the smaller universes

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well the source itself is a bit dubious. Eric might be smart but he is still a kid and it's unlikely he is a reliable source like the oracle. Also while Kadrakar is not techincly infinite, it's at the center of the infinite universe, which contains all the smaller universes

Eric is under the teaching of his grandfather who's knowledgeable on this subject. But Kandrakar is infinite. It's stated to be infinite, and the Fortress of Congregation is at the center of infinity (Kandrakar). It's outside of the normal space and time of the other universes.

 

[De6DimensionalDream]

Eric is under the teaching of his grandfather who's knowledgeable on this subject. But Kandrakar is infinite. It's stated to be infinite, and the Fortress of Congregation is at the center of infinity (Kandrakar). It's outside of the normal space and time of the other universes.

Ok you convinced me

 

[KLOL506]

Eric is under the teaching of his grandfather who's knowledgeable on this subject. But Kandrakar is infinite. It's stated to be infinite, and the Fortress of Congregation is at the center of infinity (Kandrakar). It's outside of the normal space and time of the other universes.

That seems like better evidence for convincing.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

The OP and KLOL make sense to me.

 

[Confluctor]

Seems fine to me

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Since everybody agrees including multiple staff. I'll perform the upgrades and close this.