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Versus Thread Removal Requests 15

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Antvasima

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This thread is created for the purpose of removing outdated or stomp versus threads from profiles that are administrator-protected.

Here are the regulations that need to be followed:

  • Kindly post links to the threads, along with the characters involved in the thread.
    *Provide reasons as to why you think it is a stomp match or if it doesn't follow our Versus Thread Rules.
    *Do not request a versus thread to be removed just because it's under your favorite character/verse profile.
    *Keep in mind that just because a match is decisive, or even has a unanimous vote, does not automatically make it stomp.
    *Remain patient regarding responses. Do not disturb other members with requests to look into this thread.
    *Do not derail the thread with off-topic posts. Persistent derailing, will likely result in a warning or perhaps even a block, depending upon the severity of the derailment.
    *Argument involving a versus thread to be removed that you don't agree with is allowed. Just be sensible about it.
The following on their own do not automatically mean a match is a stomp.

  • Being a decisive match doesn't make it a stomp.
    *Having a small array of hax isn't a stomp.
    *Having one hax to the opponent's none, or one hax being the deciding factor doesn't make it a stomp.
NOTE TO ALL STAFF: Please read through as much of a thread as you can before removing it. This will lessen the amount of people attempting to abuse this thread simply to remove losses from their favorite characters.
 
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(Reposting from previous thread)

Alien X vs Darkrai should be removed as it is a stomp for several reasons

 
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Rolling around ain't gonna do much when your ily method of attack is biting, which is so avoidable it's not funny. He can't do anything.
 
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I am pretty sure the libs would be in because of SBA, the only thing limited is the 9-B equipment whiich the limbs aren't
 
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well then it's comepltely ignored in the votes then. They don't acknowledge he'd have limbs so either way it's wrojg.
 
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(Repost from earlier thread) Not entirely sure if rematches is a reason to remove original. I've been told it is. So

Sans vs The Judge

There was a rematch that was done and it came to a different conclusion
 
Medaka vs Oracle - That match assumed Medaka using all fiction (for resurection) but she don't use her passive powers in character. I don't sure about Oracle being 8-A with 2-A powers is fair fight.
 
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Okay so I looked at Eternal Champion's profile, his matches with Triborg and Quan Chi will need to be removed due to MK downgrades
 

KGiffoni

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Gildedguy vs Garou. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3438300#419

Now, by no means do i think it's a stomp, neither is it outdated. It's just that i don't think there's a better place to post about it rather than this thread. The things is, the Versus Thread Rules page says:

" The winner will be determined by the side having better constructive arguments ".

While both sides have good arguments, it's clear that Garou has more arguments going for him than Gildedguy. I feel like most people who voted for Gildedguy simply ignored what has been debated the entire thread. In one of the last comments of the thread, made by me, there's a resume of the advantages Garou has and the ones Gildedguy has as well. I won't repost it here to avoid visual pollution to the thread, but please read it. It's in bold text so it'll be very easy to spot. I think either the thread should be removed or redone.
 

WeeklyBattles

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The final votes ended up being 8-5, its kinda hard for you to say that people just ignored the arguments for Garou
 
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@WeeklyBattles

All of the votes for GG come from reasons that got debunked with little to no contesting. Everytime we made a point for Garou's side the thread goes silent for a day or two and nobody on GG's side makes a rebuttal and just ignores it and I even tried to get the conversation to return to the point but it still get's ignored. GG's voters dodged repeated questioning and points multiple times throughout the thread that I can literally point them out and paste it here.

And the OP literally stated he didn't count Cal's vote because his points were debunked so it's still 7-5 meaning closing it is invalid.
 

Andytrenom

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Gyro voted for Garou and Cal's vote wasn't counted, which means there wasn't a 3 vote difference

I'm removing the matches
 

WeeklyBattles

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Yes because cal explicitly voted for gildedguy, purposely choosing to not count a vote is against the rules
 
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What are you talking about exactly?

"and im not counting cal´s because his reasons have been countered, rendering them null and void and i cant count votes without reasons."

Doesn't matter if Cal explicitly voted for GG. His points were debunked and he conceded. Unless you want to argue why his points are valid in the thread.
 

KGiffoni

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" Please state valid reasons for why a battle should go a certain way when posting in a versus thread. "

He didn't. So it's not a valid vote.
 

Andytrenom

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Weekly, Cal's vote wasn't counted and you cannot change that

I'm removing the matches again, do not try to undo it this time
 

WeeklyBattles

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The op does not get to choose what votes to count nor do they get to choose which arguments they consider legitimate, that is extremely viased
 
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Which is why he didn't. Cal conceded and he never made a rebuttal. Most of GG's side did that aswell with how many times they ignored Garou's points.
 

WeeklyBattles

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Cal voted for gildedguy and the op deliberately chose not to count his vote ensure it would mean that garou would lose. That is textbook bias.
 
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"and im not counting cal´s because his reasons have been countered, rendering them null and void and i cant count votes without reasons."

Gee I wonder why.
 

WeeklyBattles

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Dienomite22 said:
"and im not counting cal´s because his reasons have been countered, rendering them null and void and i cant count votes without reasons."

Gee I wonder why.
That is not the op's decision to make. The op does not just get to decide that the majority of votes are invalid at the drop of a hat.
 
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He didn't say the majority of votes (even though he should). He was only talking about cal's. Don't know how you thought that up.
 

KGiffoni

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Who decides this then? I think it doesn't matter when it's pretty clear and obvious his reasoning was refuted. He didn't invalidate the majotiry of the votes, only that one in specific.
 
Every single person voting for Glidedguy completely ignored the argument of Garou's Instinctive Reaction and Analytical Prediction, and never even bothered to address it. I mentioned it multiple times, yet was ignored. As I said, the vote, logically, should have been 0-5, since not one person addressed it.
 
Don't bother using the "Garou has 5 votes, people did look at his reasons" argument, because if I had to bring up the fact that not one person countered Garou's IR+AP, multiple times, then they clearly were consciously and actively ignoring Garou's arguments.
 
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Looking at Franks Page. It needs some removed fights.

1. Frank vs Springtrap

Frank's gone through plenty of upgrades, including power/durability ones. He already started almost 6 times stronger, with better basically everything. And recently scaled to a 1,000,000 Joules feat. So should be removed due to stomp.

2. Jimmy vs Frank

This should be removed or redone at the very least. Jimmy scales to 5.820e6 Joules (5,820,000 Joules). And Frank at the time only had 602,000 Joules. Making him way beyond getting one shot limit. And even currently Is almost 6 times weaker. As well. Jimmy had range and Frank didn't.

3. Chris Redfield vs Frank Resident Evil cast recently got backwards scaling to Wall+ making this a major stomp.

4. Chris Walker vs Frank West. Chris gets stomped now. The only feats he scales to on his page is Knocking down a metal door and Skull Crushing. Knocking down a metal door doesn't have a proper calc (the one linked is smashing the door which is vastly different), and skull crushing is within the low 100,000. Meaning Frank physically stomps due to 1,000,000 Joules scaling. Plus Chris has no range. And frank had his arsenal which makes his range several outclass, So physically and range outclassed.
 

WeeklyBattles

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If he wants to remake the thread then he is free to but reopening a concluded thread just because the op didnt like who won is a big no no
 
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Stop lying on the OP, he only excluded Cal's votes and he gave reasons for it. You would have to be blind to see not see why the OP chose not to count Cal's vote.
 
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Because apparently litteraly nobody tried countering the reasonings on the opposite side and that one comment was literally debunked as a whole
 

Moritzva

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I saw nothing wrong with Cal's vote for Gildedguy and I disagree with the match being removed. The only reason for it being removed it "they didn't answer our arguments!" which really only means "we think our arguments are better than theres!"

Mind you, it's not a wrong stance- that's what a debate is about. But you can't discredit votes because they disagree with you.

Gyro's vote is another matter, but to simply say "Well Cal's vote doesn't count" is flat-out wrong.
 

WeeklyBattles

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Overlord775 said:
Because apparently litteraly nobody tried countering the reasonings on the opposite side and that one comment was literally debunked as a whole
Everybody gave counterarguments to them and multiple people gave examples that were just flat out ignored
 

Moritzva

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I watched the thread, and I'm more knowledgeable on OPM than RHG, but in the end, both sides has their points and to discredit or ignore either of them would be unfair.

If the thread is going to be removed, the debate should be over Gyro's vote after grace, not the OP unfairly ignoring Cal.
 
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@Moritzva

What are you even talking about?

How does "they didn't answer our arguments!" translate to "we think our arguments are better than theres!"?

Asking how does Guilded Guy get past Garou's abilities or skill or whatever and not getting a respond doesn't mean we think our argument is better, literally they didn't have an counter argument here. If you can only throw out arguments and not answers questions pertaining to them while the opposition debunks your arguments then that's your fault here and your vote shouldn't be counted.
 

Moritzva

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Because your arguments were answered. They simply were not enough to change your minds. That's how a debate works. It doesn't mean they weren't answered; it just means you found your answers better than Gil's answers. Nothing is wrong with that.

Gildedguy has a multitude of ways to "get past Garou's abilities", and to an extent, vice versa. I doubt that this is the place to debate specifics in detail, though.
 
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@Moritzva

There's answering an argument but I can attack the answer to see if it holds up which is what I did. None of the points on GG's voting side held up unless you count dropping a debate mid discussion as "holding up". I am even willing to have a discussion with you to prove each "answer" is provable false by just linking to the responses to so called "answer".

I am willing to prove that GG has no multitude of ways to get past Garou's abilities on a seperate thread as well
 

Moritzva

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Since it's going to be a large point of contention until someone says it-

-Gildedguy has plenty of skill of his own, defeating several renowned warriors, and even Bog. So he's not getting rolfskillstomped.
-Gildedguy has the AP advantage by a fair amoubt. Admittedly, I am not sure by how much, since the first bit of the debate made it a bit confusing.
-Garou has, in theory, more abilities- but far less of them matter, as things such as Attack Reflection are a bit less useful here.
-Garou's Reactive gets parried by Gil's Reactive. Since Gil starts ahead of Garou, that means he'll maintain the AP advantage the entire fight.
-Gil has a sword, which is a massive advantage in CQC as it gives him more range and better slashing damage. I can not stress this enough, simply having a better weapon is an insurmountable boon in melee combat.
...and that's a very quick overview of reasons Gil could win with.
 
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1. Most on GG's side conceded that they have comparable skill, not counting techniques and Garou has far more actual feats meanwhile in the thread the votes for GG relied on reasonings that were factually incorrect such as GG one shotting Bog, GG beating Jade, GG beating Bog etc.

2. The most if not all votes relied on the false pretense that GG has a 3x AP advantage when infact he only has 1.5x AP advantage, not counting Garou's scaling. They also ignore Garou's attack reflection that works on opponents who one shot, analytical prediction and Garou's familarity with blade attacks and long ranged attacks.

3. While GG only has inferior reactive power level and a minor range advantage with his sword verses Garou's techniques, analytical prediction and as you said attack reflection .

4. No, already conceded that GG's reactive power level is far weaker than Garou's evolution.

5. Garou is already familiar with weapons such as Guilded Guy's and faced opponents with blades and large ranged and aoe attacks before in a much weaker state.

All of this was already debunked in the other thread
 

WeeklyBattles

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1. GG did in fact oneshot Bog and he did in fact beat Jade, that is not factually incorrect in any way.

2. Since when was the gap only 1.5x? Garou is near baseline. Thus far no one ever posted any scans of Garou reflecting an attack that can oneshot him. Gildedguy is extremely familiar with fighting master martial artists as well so Garou doesnt have an advantage over him in that regard.

4. The only reaosning that was given was that Garou can become High 6-A which has no bearing on that thread.

5. Gildedguy is already familiar with people who have fighting styles and techniques like Garou's
 

Moritzva

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1. I, too, admit to comparable skill. And I don't know about everyone, but I didn't vote based on one-shots. I voted partially due to the aforementioned reasoning.

2. If I recall, it's somewhere between 1.5x-3x? I voted on a x2 assumption as a bit of a middle ground, but my vote probably wouldn't change if it was a 'lil bit less.

3. That minor range advantage means everything. If your opponent has equal skill and a sword to outrange and outfight you, preventing you from getting close with powerful strikes and spacing, well, you lose.

4. I really don't see them as too glaringly different? Both amp to beat the crap out of foes they had a lot of issues with before. And with 7-A forms used, absolute worst case scenario is that they both adapt to the top of 7-A or something. In which, Gil's range and armor will give him a leg up.

5. Familiar with it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. An archer can be trained against spearmen in close quarters all their life- it doesn't stop it from being a horrendous matchup. As well, a lot of the people Garou fought were a helluva lot lower in skill and strength than Gildedguy.

So... no. Not debunked. You just disagree, like I said.
 
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@WeeklyBattles

1. Free to expand on the Bog point. Go ahead and explain how he "beat" Jade.

2. Garou is >>>>>>>>>>>> Gouketsu who is 260 mt brought up in the other thread. Tell how GG is gonna deal with analytical prediction, superior evolution, and attack reflection.

4. And this form of Garou hits the peak of 7-A and caps not hitting high 6-A plus his speed increases along with it.

5. Sure, point to me which one of he beat fairly and that have analytical prediction, attack reflection and evolution.
 

Moritzva

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Now, back to the actual point of contention: Gyro's vote. Is Gyro the only vote that took it out of a 3 point lead? Because if so, that is what this debate is about.

By the way, we're counting Cal's vote. His vote is no less valid than the votes for Garou.
 

Moritzva

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2. Analytical prediction on people less skilled. Gil will be fine. Their evolution is comparable. Attack Reflection versus a sword sounds funny, but even if it does work, Gil's armor prevents slashing from hurting him too much.

Now, can we get back to the votes?
 

Moritzva

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WeeklyBattles said:
Yes, Gyro voted after the grace period had ended
Now, technically this means the match should be added, but I'd be a hypocrite to not give a little leeway on after-grace voting.
 
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@Moritza

1. That's fine but those votes are wrong on this portion then.

2. 1.5x because it's 1.5. Garou is massively superior to 260 mt.

3. Equal skill doesn't mean equal technique and combat experince and abilites. Garou never let's his opponent just smack him around. Garou dealt with multiple opponents with large range and massive aoe attacks that are far superior to Gilded Guy's range and he's deflected blade attacks before. Besides Gilding Guy rarely uses his range advantage.

4. That's was our entire point, Garou in this form literally went from 7-A to high 6-A from clashing with an opponent who was 7-A for a couple of second. Garou would literally be peak 7-A if one or 2 attacks land onto him or if the battle last a couple secongs.

5. What is considered an horrendous match up for Garou? because it's certainly not a expanding blade if he's face far worse before. Point out where Gilded Guy face an opponent such as Garou or enemies with similiar attacks and techniques.

If someone can't answer a simple question from the opposition then they can be considered debunked on that point.
 

Moritzva

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...Right, I think the point isn't clear yet. The point is, this debate will go back and forth forever. I provide a counterclaim, you believe your claim is better. And I'm not going to spam the Removal thread with circular debating.

So, can we move onto what actually matters and debate the votes?
 
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So with a weapon like a sword at this level of power vs someone without it can be pretty good to just shaved body parts off. Instinctive Reaction helps with attack reflections from Garou and GG still having a decent AP advantage, I do think GG would still win that fight.

The aren't light years away from each other in terms of skills so that's another thing.
 

Moritzva

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Well, there we go. Even if we could Gyro's vote, it's still 3 votes in favor of Gildedguy.

I'm going to add the battle back later today, unless someone has a compelling argument about the vote counts before then.
 
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I honestly can't understand how would someone come to that conclusion when literally everything is in Garou's favour besides range and a slight ap advantage.
 

Moritzva

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Dienomite22 said:
I honestly can't understand how would someone come to that conclusion when literally everything is in Garou's favour besides range and a slight ap advantage.
Vice versa. It doesn't matter. The votes are in- Cal's vote doubtlessly counts, and if we count Gyro, then naturally Greyfang is fair game, too. It's a close battle, but I'm putting it back up.
 
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Ok so, people fight around the same AP with one having an advantage.

Then the stronger one gets a sword... you see the problem here? It takes one mistake (while GG moves on his own without needing to focus) and an arm or leg is gone. That's a big deal here.
 

Andytrenom

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So you really did end up reverting these edits once again Weekly

I'll say this one last time, the final deciding vote was explicitly not counted, and even if you disagree with that, you do not get to just completely ignore it, decide on your own that the vote is counted and then just close the thead as if there's nothing to discuss.

Your argument of bias doesn't make sense either, an OP does have to leave out votes when they are incorrect and he had a reason to consider the last vote as such because of the arguments against it. No one would have stopped you from arguing against it, but just assuming his decision didn't matter and adding the matches without addressing this problem is why I had to remove them

I know this will just turn into an endless cycle if I undid things again though, so I will wait this time, but I'll say for the time being that this this was a very sketchy way to handle things
 

Moritzva

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Hey, Andy?

Weekly reverting votes on a decision and issue that wasn't finalized yet isn't at all wrong.

Removing it before a decision is made, however, is very wrong.

...And a new thread was made anyways so, eh, let's just go with that.
 

Moritzva

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Andytrenom said:
Reverting votes?
The issue at hand, which was not solved (and also most likely won't be), was vote counts. That was not at all properly debated, and removing the thread before a conclusion was reached is quite hasty. Blaming Weekly for reverting a pre-emptive edit is unfair; the changes should of only been made once a decision was reached.

...though it doesn't really matter, since the new thread picked up a lot of steam. So we're just adding the results of that.
 

Andytrenom

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It shouldn't have been added before the matter of the OP not counting the vote was actually addressed and decided by people to be incorrect or not. The tally was still 7-5 and hence invalid to add for that reason, it needed to be removed because it shouldn't have been added in the first place
 

Moritzva

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The OP can't ignore votes that were based on valid reasoning; whether the reasoning was valid or not was subject to debate, albeit extremely repetitive debate.
 

Andytrenom

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Ignoring votes isn't the same as rejecting votes that have been debunked, and from his perspective it was. And that's why it was important to actually address the matter before adding the matches, instead of just pretending the vote count was something it wasn't
 

Moritzva

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Personally, the vote was completely fine to add. The reasoning had nothing wrong with it. The real point of contention was Gyro's vote, which apparently came in after grace.

Removing it before the issue was properly solved was the incorrect move here. Weekly is not at fault for undoing it; the person who removed it originally is.
 

Andytrenom

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Yeah personally, while the guy tallying the votes found it incorrect after it being legitimately refuted by several people. Once again, a vote that isn't counted isn't something you just assume is valid, you should actually have to get it agreed that it is valid in the thread itself, that much should be common sense.

I disagree, I know what the rules regarding the match additions are and what was officially the final tally went against it, I have reasons for removing it and as for doing things before a conclusion is reached, that's exactly what adding the match on the premise of it being 8-5 vote count was
 

Moritzva

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And those people who 'legitimately refuted' were similarly refuted. The OP can't just choose to not count votes without a very, very good reason to. And in this situation, the situation was muddy, hours went by, and the vote was clear. Gyro's vote came in; that's another topic. That's the point of actual discussion. It should be common sense that OPs can't simply decide who can vote and who can't on a dime.

The discussion wasn't over. How can one be mad at Weekly for undoing a change before a decision was reached, if it was removed before a decision was reached? You had your 'reasons' for removing it... and Weekly had plenty of reasons to undo it. So to get mad at Weekly yet ignore the elephant in the room of removing a match before the issue was properly discussed is quite a double standard.

You removed it on the premise of it not being 8-5; it being 8-5 was a point of debate. And that debate was not finished. So to simply say it wasn't 8-5 as a reason for removal is misleading and false, as the point was far from finished- both Cal's and Gyro's votes were not properly discussed, and on face value, so it should of been 8-5. Unless we're taking the precedent that we assume votes are invalid, instead of valid, while discussing such. Which is some odd inverse of "innocent until proven guilty", I must say.
 

Andytrenom

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Ignoring? I explained my reasonings for removing the matches and just because you think I'm in the wrong doesn't mean I am ignoring things I did, I am willing to admit that undoing Weekly's second edit instead of just discussing things may have been a bad move, but removing a match where the final vote wasn't even counted was completely justified from my perspective.

You know what, believe what you want, you are accusing me of things like being misleading when coming in here and just saying there was a 8-5 tally is exactly that, you accuse me of being hasty when a rejected vote got used by someone to add an otherwise invalid match, without even getting it properly accepted first, and I never said I was angry at Weekly, frustrated maybe but not angry. believe me I'm not above admitting my mistakes, but I have seen nothing from your points that actually convince me I was in the wrong here, and part of what you say honestly just comes off as ironic and presumptious
 

Andytrenom

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Presumptuous is the wrong word probably but you acting like I'm just trying to ignore my actions and getting mad at Weekly is definitely wrong
 

Moritzva

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The presumptions made here, Andy, are regarding the interpretation of the votes. If we assume a vote is valid until proven not, the match should of originally been added; what happens after that, however, depends. If you disagree, sure, it's a fair interpretation, even if I personally disagree with you. But on the same note, that would mean Weekly's fine to interpret it the opposite way and re-add it.

The argument of 8-5 was based on if the vote was invalid or not. You believe it was; I do not, and Weekly did not. So you removed it, and Weekly brought it back. Discussion should of been had, from both sides. The issue is not that you believe that you were correct, or that Weekly believes he was correct. It was that all of this happened without proper discussion. My argument is not that either is "wrong", but that being only critical of Weekly's decision isn't fair when both sides made similar choices. I hope that, now, we can agree on that.

Regarding discussion, though. Admittedly, it is now happening in the new thread. So, everything worked out after all. Regardless of who wins, I'm fine with the outcome.
 

KGiffoni

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Yeah, i think debating this here now is kinda pointless when the new thread is happening
 

Moritzva

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Andytrenom said:
Presumptuous is the wrong word probably but you acting like I'm just trying to ignore my actions and getting mad at Weekly is definitely wrong
I apologize, then. I could of worded better. To restate, I simply believe that neither side is wrong here, and it was an issue of miscommunication more than all. Admittedly, that original thread was... very difficult to read.
 

Andytrenom

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I just think whether you interpret a vote to be valid or not, if rejected by the OP his decision should be argued in the thread itself, not just completely ignored by one person and added to the profiles. That's my only problem, I don't care if the vote is good or not, it being rejected by the OP is just something to actually resolve properly before using it in my opinion

But okay, I'm fine with just leaving it for the time being
 

Moritzva

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I am a bit more cautious of such, given that some OPs don't fully read their own thread, or have bias, so giving them the end-all-be-all of being able to count all votes regardless of discussion or validity worries me, although I can see your point. Given that this is an issue of interpreting whether the OP can do that, I am of the opinion that removing it nor re-adding it was wrong, given the context. So I hope there are no hard feelings.

Seems like Garou's winning the rematch, though.
 
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The issue would be that it wouldn't be giving a be-all end-all amount of power, would just give cause for discussing the validity of the decision. I doubt anyone would think of just listening to the OP without using their critical thinking, and if they did, then that's another problem entirely that may need looking into.

By the way, were the matches that Ce221 brought up looked at? Didn't see any response to it.
 

Elizhaa

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Sadistic Sleuth said:
Bill Cipher's loss against Vriska Serket needs to be removed, due to how Vriska's key that was used is now 2-A, no longer Low 2-C
I already removed it from Vriska's page, but Bill's page is locked
I agree so I will remove it.
 
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MagicCloud6 said:
(Reposting from previous thread)
Alien X vs Darkrai should be removed as it is a stomp for several reasons

 
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