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UnOrdinary: The Mega Speed & AP Downgrade/ReScaling CRT

ElajRuengies

ElajRuengies

1,899
2,238
Okay so I've been rereading UnOrdinary and... let's just say that there are some slight problems with the current ratings.

Part 1: Speed Calcs- The Issue with Electricity in Air

So, the current three speeds that everyone is scaled to (Waldo's 121 m/s, Remi's 556 m/s, and Volcan's 2,753 m/s) are all derivative of using the speed of electricity in air, based on some video of a Tesla Coil Gun in slow motion, where it clocks in at 556 m/s. Now, this is very shake-y for a couple of reasons- (not the least of which is Volcan being five times faster than Remi despite the fact that Remi still managed to last for a period of time against her)
  1. Speed of Electricity in Real Life is super hard to define, as an electric current has multiple "speeds" going on inside of it. There's the velocities of individual electrons bumping into each other, the Drift Velocity- the overall speed the entire system moves which increases/decreases with DC Voltage, and the Signal Velocity, which is gonna be the Lightspeed of whatever medium its in). The Drift/Average Velocity of a 10 Amp electric current travelling through a copper wire with a cross-sectional area of 3 square millimeters is gonna be 0.25 millimeters per second, which is a tad slower than 556 meters per second.
  2. As such, the "Speed of Electricity" in Fiction is not like Lightspeed or Lightning Speed, which have set/average Real Life Values. Chances are the writer isn't an electrical engineer whose gonna use the conductivity of air, voltage, and lethal amount of amps for humans to determine the speed their character is shooting neon-zigzags at. Instead, the Speed of Electricity in fiction is whatever the heck the writer needs it to be, which is not something that one can do calcs on.
As such, the Speed of Electricity should really only be used for measuring speed feats if there is literally no other measurable speed feats in the series. And that is not the case here. (Note- these calcs are pending evaluation)
Part 2: AP Calcs- Concrete Is Not Made of Rocks

So, a handful of volume-breaking calcs use the Destruction Values for granite (8, 69, and 214 j/cm3), when they should be using the Destruction Values for concrete (6, 17-20, and 40 j/cm3). While one of these cases was caught- Wein's Phantom Fist, the others were not.
  1. The OG Unordinary AP Calc- Gou Breaks the Ground (Should use 6 j/cm3 and not 8, meaning it's 13,530,000 joules- still Wall level+)
  2. Isen Cracks the Road (Should use 6 j/cm3 and not 8- meaning it's 32,683,597.02 joules, still Small Building level)
  3. Blyke's Energy Beam (Should use 40 j/cm3 and not 214, meaning it's 52,923,662 joules, still Small Building level)
  4. (The reason why the ground in the Turf War Calcs should be calc'd to be made of concrete, and not granite, is because there are still buildings in the backdrop, so. this is still somewhere in a city, not in the hills/nature- see these images of the Turf War and compare them to these images of them hiking in Rowden Hill)
The biggest thing this does is drop Blyke from 283.1 Megajoules to 52.9 Megajoules, and while that sucks, it also means that he's no longer over six times stronger than Isen, which actually makes sense given how they fought because Blyke broke Isen's pen in Chapter 1.

Part 3: Scaling, Stats Sheets, and Statistics

Let's tackle the old scaling/statistics issues first-
1. Remi's Electricity should not scale to Blyke's Energy Beam.
  • Even though Remi's Tier is overall higher than Blyke's, on their stat sheets, Remi's Power-stat is lower than Blyke's, but higher than Isen's. (Image)
  • This is supported by Remi's direct hit on Volcan staggering her but not doing significant damage (images), meanwhile Blyke's energy beam's drew blood from Volcan on multiple occasions (images), and Isen's kick simply knocking her back, but not doing anything beyond that (images).
  • In other words, Remi's Electricity should be above Isen's Calc, but below Blyke's Calc
2. John's Stats need to be listed as "Varies"
  • Look at the nine different stat sheets from the various powersets he's had on his UnOrdinary Wiki Profile. For a number of them, his Power-stat is lower than Blyke's, and one of them (Catch Up & Clobber) has his Power-stat be around Isen's. Also, by default with no abilities copied, all of his stats (except for Trick) are even lower than Mid-Tiers like Gavin's Stone Skin. (Image) This makes sense given how Power Copying, without any Powers to Copy, means that you might as well not be using your power. And when John fought Gavin without using his ability way at the start of the series, Gavin broke his arm in one hit, so yeah.
  • His Speed also Varies with what ability he's copied- with Regeneration, Explosion, and Missiles, while he got a surprise hit on Isen, Isen immediately dodged his next attack and rushed him, with him later saying that "We both know I'm the clear winner here. You're not fast enough to keep up with me." And then John heals and immediately catches Isen's next punch, after copying Hunter. This is reflected in his stat sheets, which show his speed increasing after copying Hunter. (Image)
  • Also for some reason John has two keys- "Restrained" and "Unrestrained", but only has values for his Unrestrained self, which is a fancy term for him no longer withholding his powers. I don't know what's up with that.
3. Blyke's Power-stat did not increase when he became a High-Tier
  • While his level did go from 4.5 to 5 when his Energy Beam became Energy Discharge, that's because his ability got a lot more versatile and all of his other stats went up. His Power remained exactly the same. As such, his AP should reflect this. (Image)
4. Arlo's Striking Strength needs specifying
  • While his overall AP is gonna be the same as the durability of his barrier thanks to its damage reflection, his actual striking power is less than that. Again, see Power-stat: it's greater than Isen's but less than Blyke's. (Image) Also, in-story, Isen couldn't budge his arm so obviously he's gonna be stronger than Isen. Unfortunately I can't find the specific scene.
With that out of the way, let's tackle what current scaling would be!
1. Gavin's Speed Calc scales to Mid-Tiers
  • This one is fairly self-explanatory. Admittedly it's pretty slow compared to the next calcs, but I couldn't find any better speed feats for Mid-Tiers- let me know if there is one.
2. Dampened John's Calc scales to slower-than-Remi High/Top-Tiers, and Elite/High-Tiers. It also scales to John's mid-speed powersets
  • The reasoning for this is that, while John's ability was cut in half in the scene, he had 2 Powers- Arlo's Barrier and the attacker's miscellaneous speed ability. Unfortunately we never see his stat-sheet with these abilities, so the basis for this scaling is that Blyke boosting himself with Energy Beam and Isen with Hunter should still grant them at least a comparable speed to Mid-Tier John with a misc. speed ability.
  • Admittedly this is a guesstimation scaling, but the numbers work out nicely.
  • This scales to Blyke (Elite-Tier), Blyke (High-Tier, with an "at least"), Isen, Zeke in his Offense Form, Ventus & Meili, Cecile, and Abel
  • Also, John's mid-speed powersets are [Regeneration, Missile, Explosion, Hunter], [Energy Beam, Energy Ropes], and [Armor Suit, Demon Blade, Heal Link, Energy Discharge], and [Catch Up & Clobber] (with an "At least")
3. Remi's Calc scales to Remi, John's high-speed powersets, and folk comparable to/a bit faster than her
  • In other words this scales to Remi, Rei, Volcan, and Arlo.
  • Also John's high-speed powers sets are [Demon Claw, Whirlwind, & Barrier], [Phase Shift, Lightning, Energy Beam, & Hunter], and [Conjure: Vines, Phase Shift, Barrier, & Lightning]
  • Now you may be wondering- "Why does Arlo scale to Remi, when his stat-sheet shows his ability's speed at like, a 1?" And that's because Arlo's Barrier literally doesn't move. Arlo himself however, has been shown to be capable of reacting to John, even when he had [Demon Claw & Whirlwind] and his speed stat was comparable to Remi's. (Image)
4. Seraphina's Calc scales to Seraphina, and Seraphina only
  • Seraphina is the only character profile who is (likely) Supersonic, and this really shouldn't be a surprise.
  • Her speed stat is literally as high as it can go- see it compared to John with [Conjure: Vines, Phase Shift, Barrier, & Lightning] (Image)
  • This is backed up with their fight, and how despite John having a sizable range and AoE advantage, he still has a hard time landing any hits on Seraphina. (Image)
5. Blyke's AP Calc No Longer Scales to Everyone Relevant
  • Meili, Zeke in his Offense Form, and Cecile have the same Power-stat as Isen- a 5 (Image), as such they scale to Isen's Calc.
  • Rei has the same Power-stat as Blyke, as such they scale to Blyke's Calc (Image)
  • John with [Catch Up & Clobber] slightly weaker than Isen (4.5) (Image), and so should still be Small Building level
  • John with [Regeneration, Missile, Explosion & Hunter] is slightly weaker than Blyke (Image), but should still be far above Isen's Calc
  • John with [Demon Claw, Whirlwind, and Barrier] is equal to Blyke, while with [Armor Suit, Demon Blade, Heal Link, & Energy Discharge], [Conjure: Vines, Phase Shift, Barrier, Lightning], and any other Powerset which already includes Blyke's Energy Beam/Energy Discharge is way stronger than Blyke, and thus is far above Blyke's Calc (Image)
In Summary:

The Electricity-in-Air Speed Calcs need to be replaced, bringing the Verse's speeds from Subsonic/Supersonic/Hypersonic to Superhuman/Subsonic/Subsonic+/Supersonic

A couple of the AP Calcs need to use values for Concrete and not Rocks, dropping Isen from 43.6 Megajoules to 32.7 Megajoules, and Blyke from 283.1 Megajoules to 52.9 Megajoules.

A bunch of people scale accordingly, given the stat sheets which are backed up by in-story fights.
 
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I'd call @Cimafranca133 since this involves lots of hos calcs and because he's also knowledgeable on the series (more then me since I haven't read ina a good while)
 
I'm not really a fan of CRTs, because I've grown into the habit of trying to change everything about a verse all at once, so I'm not going to comment much, but I would like to point out that in Seraphina's Supersonic calculation, she was freezing time, which is why she wasn't appearing on the cameras.
 
I can’t comment on the calcs themselves but I completely agree with the scaling and how we should be using their power charts as reference. This makes perfect sense for John since he has so many.

For John we should have his base key with him tiered without any ability. When using his ability it’s “varies” (since he can copy opponents abilities) and have keys for the different power sets he uses.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I'm not really a fan of CRTs, because I've grown into the habit of trying to change everything about a verse all at once, so I'm not going to comment much, but I would like to point out that in Seraphina's Supersonic calculation, she was freezing time, which is why she wasn't appearing on the cameras.
Click to expand...
She's slowing down time, not freezing it- and her not appearing on the cameras is specifically stated to be due to her "speed" (Image) (Yes, technically speaking speed due to [moving normally in slowed time] is not quite the same as [moving fast in normal time], but the end result is basically the same)
 
Nico-v11 said:
I can’t comment on the calcs themselves but I completely agree with the scaling and how we should be using their power charts as reference. This makes perfect sense for John since he has so many.
Click to expand...
Exactly! (Although I think two of John's powersets on his profile doesn't have a stat spread)
Nico-v11 said:
For John we should have his base key with him tiered without any ability. When using his ability it’s “varies” (since he can copy opponents abilities) and have keys for the different power sets he uses.
Click to expand...
Alright, so his base would be keyed as [By Default] I assume? (Whether or not John could copy his opponents powers and stats in a match up depends on Verse-equalization)
Nico-v11 said:
Each key would then be tiered as appropriate.
Click to expand...
Makes sense- also the Powers and Abilities section would be separated by key as well
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The background was not grayed out here, though. Everything retained its color.
Click to expand...
The other person besides Seraphina in the first panel was greatly desaturated. Also, the Speed Calcs are from this and the other hallway scene, not from Seraphina when she's inside the lab room
 
ElajRuengies said:
The reason why the ground in the Turf War Calcs should be calc'd to be made of concrete, and not granite, is because there are still buildings in the backdrop, so. this is still somewhere in a city, not in the hills/nature- see these images of the Turf War and compare them to these images of them hiking in Rowden Hill
Click to expand...
For the Turf War calcs, I think half-rock, half concrete should be used instead of rock or concrete. You need stable foundations on bedrock first or else your houses would just collapse, pouring concrete alone is too expensive to pull that off. This was actually stated by @KLOL506 in another calc I made in a different verse.
 
Cimafranca133 said:
For the Turf War calcs, I think half-rock, half concrete should be used instead of rock or concrete. You need stable foundations on bedrock first or else your houses would just collapse, pouring concrete alone is too expensive to pull that off. This was actually stated by @KLOL506 in another calc I made in a different verse.
Click to expand...
That... [5 Minutes of Googling later] ...does make sense- concrete slabs are a bare minimum of 4 inches thick (10.16 cm). Meanwhile Gou's crater is 22.478 centimeters deep, while Blyke's energy beam cuts 22.8096 centimeters into the ground.

So half of the volume destroyed being concrete while the other half is rock checks out.
Cimafranca133 said:
Also I'm a bit iffy on scaling the characters AP on their power stat because on one hand yes it makes sense but on the other hand the characters stats are have been inconsistent at times.
Click to expand...
That's fair- also having to constantly search for and compare the stat sheets was exhausting
Cimafranca133 said:
I agree with this, the only reason I used Electricity-In-Air Speed Calcs is because I didn't see anything else that I could use to calc speed.
Click to expand...
Also fair (although I still need to get the calcs actually evaluated)
 
First things first, John should have two different profiles for Season 1 and Season 2.

John Season 1
Tier: 10-A, Varies with Aura Manipulation | 10-A, 9-A with Whirlwind and Demon Claw, higher with Barrier | 10-A, Unknown with Afterimage | 10-A, 9-A in Offense Form, 10-A in Defense Form | 10-A, 9-A with Clobber and Catch-Up | 10-A, 9-A with Missiles, higher with Explosion and Hunter | 10-A, 9-A with Energy Beams | 10-A, 9-A with Conjure: Vines | 10-A, 9-A with Phase Shift and Hunter, higher with Lightning, even higher with Energy Beam
Attack Potency: Athlete level, Varies with Aura Manipulation (His abilities vary in power depending on who he's fighting) | Athlete level, Small Building level with Whirlwind and Demon Claw, even higher with Barrier () | Athlete level, Unknown with Afterimage | Athlete level, Small Building level in Offense Form, Athlete level in Defense Form | Athlete level, Small Building level with Clobber and Catch-Up | Athlete level, Small Building level with Missiles, higher with Explosion and Hunter | Athlete level, Small Building level with Energy Beams | Athlete level, Small Building level with Conjure: Vines | Athlete level, Small Building level with Phase Shift and Hunter, higher with Lightning, even higher with Energy Beam
Speed: Athletic Human, Varies with Aura Manipulation | Athletic Human, Subsonic+ with Whirlwind and Demon Claw | Athletic Human, Subsonic with Afterimage | Athletic Human, Subsonic in Offense Form, Athletic Human in Defense Form | Athletic Human, Subsonic with Catch-Up and Clobber | Athletic Human, Subsonic with Hunter |Athletic Human, Subsonic with Energy Beams | Athletic Human, Subsonic with Conjure: Vines | Athletic Human, Subsonic with Phase Shift, Hunter and Energy Beams, Subsonic+ with Lightning
Durability: Athlete level, Varies with Aura Manipulation | Athlete level, Small Building level with Whirlwind and Demon Claw, even higher with Barrier | Athlete level, Unknown with Afterimage | Athlete level, Small Building level in Offense Form, Athlete level in Defense Form | Athlete level, Small Building level with Clobber and Catch-Up | Athlete level, Small Building level with Missiles, higher with Explosion and Hunter | Athlete level, Small Building level with Energy Beams | Athlete level, Small Building level with Conjure: Vines | Athlete level, Small Building level with Phase Shift and Hunter, higher with Lightning, even higher with Energy Beam

Key: Base | Fight with Arlo | Fight with Unnamed Spectre Agent | Beating Up Zeke | Beating Up Juni | Fight with Isen | Fight with Blyke | Fight with Cecile | Fight with Royals
 
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ElajRuengies said:
A couple of the AP Calcs need to use values for Concrete and not Rocks, dropping Isen from 43.6 Megajoules to 32.7 Megajoules, and Blyke from 283.1 Megajoules to 52.9 Megajoules.
Click to expand...
Cimafranca133 said:
For the Turf War calcs, I think half-rock, half concrete should be used instead of rock or concrete. You need stable foundations on bedrock first or else your houses would just collapse, pouring concrete alone is too expensive to pull that off. This was actually stated by @KLOL506 in another calc I made in a different verse.
Click to expand...
ElajRuengies said:
The reason why the ground in the Turf War Calcs should be calc'd to be made of concrete, and not granite, is because there are still buildings in the backdrop, so. this is still somewhere in a city, not in the hills/nature- see these images of the Turf War and compare them to these images of them hiking in Rowden Hill
Click to expand...

Actually now that I think about it, Using rock values make a lot more sense rather than concrete or half-concrete and half-rock. First of all, it would be too expensive, I mean you would need to pay a large sum of money every time there's a turf war. Based on my understanding, Turf Wars seem to be a student-run thing rather than school-run thing.
 
Could John get either a possibly higher or a supersonic speed key (depends on which one is used) if he copied Time manipulation?
 
TheDarkOne said:
Could John get either a possibly higher or a supersonic speed key (depends on which one is used) if he copied Time manipulation?
Click to expand...
I don't think John can copy Time Manipulation. And even when he copied Lightning- the next fastest ability- his speed still wasn't anywhere near Seraphina's.

Now, in a Match Up where John could copy his opponent's power, and his opponents could reach Supersonic, then he may get Supersonic, but that's would just get lumped under "varies"
 
I think Blyke's Calc should scales to characters with 7.0-9.0 power stat while Isen's calc should scale to characters with 4.0-6.9 power stat.
 
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Cimafranca133 said:
I think Blyke's Calc should scales to characters with 7.0-9.0 power stat while Isen's calc should scale to characters with 4.0-6.9 power stat.
Click to expand...
Also Weim's Phantom Fist calc only scales to characters with a power stat of 2.0 - 2.9 while Ventus' Whirlwind calc should scale to characters with a power stat of 3.0 - 3.9.
Characters with only 1 power stat should be baseline 10-B (Unless it's base John Doe or William Doe who should be 10-A)

Weim's Calc:
vsbattles.fandom.com

unOrdinary: Weim's Phantom Fist

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Ventus' Calc:
vsbattles.fandom.com

unOrdinary: Ventus Whirlwind

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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ElajRuengies said:
  • Seraphina is the only character profile who is (likely) Supersonic, and this really shouldn't be a surprise.
  • Her speed stat is literally as high as it can go- see it compared to John with [Conjure: Vines, Phase Shift, Barrier, & Lightning] (Image)
  • This is backed up with their fight, and how despite John having a sizable range and AoE advantage, he still has a hard time landing any hits on Seraphina. (Image)
Click to expand...
wasn't this because of the time stop ability?
 
Do we have an explanation for how Sera’s ability works? Clearly we’ve got conflicting ideas on whether it’s time stop or time slow.
 
I recalced Blyke's feat for the 3rd time and got 0.2057 tons of TNT (Small Building level+)
Note: I used half rock half soil because @KLOL506 said that it was more accurate.
 
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Cimafranca133 said:
I recalced Blyke's feat for the 3rd time and got 0.2328 tons of TNT (Small Building level+)
Note: I used half rock half soil because @KLOL506 said that it was more accurate.
Click to expand...
Wait, half-rock half-soil? How the heck did you get Small Building level+ if you used destruction values of soil? Dirt's like, 0.2 Joules per Cubic Centimeter

EDI: Nevermind, found the thread
 
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