Trying to prove that Piccolo's eye beams are lasers

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

So in the 23rd Budokai Piccolo shoots some beams from his eyes and Goku percieves and dodges them as seen here:



Now I did a calc for this but I was told I needed to prove that the beams were actually lasers first, which is what this thread is for! To get a consensus

Now according to here the criteria for something to not be considered a laser or real light is:

• It is shown at different speeds in the same material.
• It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans.
• They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above.)

However considering that it's only two frames and they do go in a straight line (with only refraction from air), there isn't anything proving they're not lasers.

However for criteria that proves that they are lasers, we fall short as well:

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.

The beams come from Piccolo's eyes, not a camera, it's only two panels and no one really comments on whether the beams are light or are lightspeed or are made of photons, they don't reflect off of a mirror, and the only material that could retract them is air (which is all around us!)

What only fits the criteria of the beams being lasers is that the beams are straight, they can burn the Tournament arena, and the Daizenshuu 7 calls them 'Kōsengan/光線眼' which is uses the kanji '光線', 光線 is used in optics and refer for anything of light rays.

Now I know that we at VS Battles are reluctant to use guides as a reference for canon, especially when those guides are not written by the author, but a rule of thumb that I at least use is that if what's in the guides contradicts the source material, then it's not canon. And there's really nothing to contradict whether the beams are lasers or not!

We did use the Daizenshuu to bump Goku up to Moon level before, don't see what's the problem here

 

[KingTempest]

So from what I'm seeing, out of the 5 main criteria, it only follows one, the one of light

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

So from what I'm seeing, out of the 5 main criteria, it only follows one, the one of light

Well, the problem is, there just isn't enough information, that is what this thread is for

 

[Orange]

If it follows just one, it really wouldn't be considered a lazer .
At best it would grant likely or possibly and that's a reach.
Tho we see it travel in a straight line, it leaves smoke or burnt Mark's [panels aren't clear] and it's stated to be a ray/beam of light I think?
So I am kinda neutral tbh

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

This is the chapter for when the feat happened: https://mangame.org/manga/dragon-ball/chapter-184/

 

[Nullflowerblush]

光線眼 translates literally to "eye ray". Yes, 光線 is used, but this is not the same as a character in-verse calling the attack a "ray of light".
This would be a nominal fallacy—same reason we do not give Boros 4-C on account of his attack supposedly collapsing stars.

Also,

They attack their opponents by firing a destructive ray from both eyes with a sharp glance. Its force is in proportion to the user's power. This attack takes advantage of innate abilities.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

光線眼 translates literally to "eye ray". Yes, 光線 is used, but this is not the same as a character in-verse calling the attack a "ray of light".
This would be a nominal fallacy—same reason we do not give Boros 4-C on account of his attack supposedly collapsing stars.

Like I said above, if it contradicts what is seen, then it's not canon. Boros' Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon has the kanji for star in it but he obviously doesn't destroy a star with it, and no one states that he can destroy stars, or that Vegeta's Big Bang attack doesn't cause a literal big bang!

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Boros' Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon has the kanji for star in it but he obviously doesn't destroy a star with it

We never get to see him use the attack to actually destroy anything.

no one states that he can destroy stars

hoshi

if it contradicts what is seen, then it's not canon

They attack their opponents by firing a destructive ray from both eyes with a sharp glance. Its force is in proportion to the user's power. This attack takes advantage of innate abilities.

None of this is contradicted by the manga. It does conflict with lightspeed criteria though.
This attack also only passed one criteria: being called a ray beam.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Okay, let me just ask why we consider the beam that vaporized Tetsuo's arm a laser?

We never see it refract or relfect from anything, no one explicitly says the beam is made of photons, and nothing in AKIRA explicitly says that it's lightspeed; the characters just say it's a large laser; that's one criteria

The same could be said for the laser Kaneda uses, although I think it did reflect off of a metal surface (it's been years since I read AKIRA btw); but still it's ony two criteria

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If you have qualms about what Akira does, you should make a CRT for Akira.
Those pages are old and low maintenance anyway with scans coming from reddit respect threads, like every other anime that isn't the Big 3, Dragon Ball, or new gen.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Nullflowerblush here's the AKIRA crt: https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-pages-for-akira-are-outdated-as-hell.121678/

 

[GuildZero]

It only meets 1 qualification out of 5. So this most likely wont get accepted

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Wiki is somewhat inconsistent with what is accepted as light speed or not. If what you say above is true it should be removed from those characters.

As for the Piccolo laser I don’t see anything here that meets any of the requirements. Except being called light? That isn’t enough.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

It only meets 1 qualification out of 5. So this most likely wont get accepted

Wiki is somewhat inconsistent with what is accepted as light speed or not. If what you say above is true it should be removed from those characters.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I also noticed that the criteria is missing anything on the concept of electromagnetic spectrum, or emitting radiation

And I've been told that the bench should be if a beam is stated to be light or is it stated to move at light speed, unless the criteria for it not being light is seen

 

[KingTempest]

I also noticed that the criteria is missing anything on the concept of electromagnetic spectrum, or emitting radiation

Photons handle that

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Yeah, but all electromagnetic radiation in the spectrum is SoL

Also, Beta rays are SoL but yet they are not photonic particles!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do not agree with them being light speed; pretty sure lasers would bounce off the white colored ring if it was.

 

[Rez]

Okay, let me just ask why we consider the beam that vaporized Tetsuo's arm a laser?

We never see it refract or relfect from anything, no one explicitly says the beam is made of photons, and nothing in AKIRA explicitly says that it's lightspeed; the characters just say it's a large laser; that's one criteria

They say it's a beam of light and a laser

And also this

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with others in that we do not have sufficient conclusive evidence for this to be considered as a laser. My apologies.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'll have to disagree too.

Also the Boros argument is really bad, since the thing about it is that it has several meanings.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we close this thread then?

 

[KingTempest]

I think so

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.