Trunks vs Shulk (i have no idea if this is a good idea)

[Spinoirr]

Xeno Trunks vs Shulk

1. Speed is equal
2. Both are 2-A
3. Monado II Shulk is being used
4. Heroes (New Space-Time War Saga) Trunks is being used
5. I will use Monado III or replica monado or Future Connected if I have to

Xeno Trunks:
Shulk:
Icon:

 

[Vietthai96]

DB game is under revision bro

 

[Ceoofmemes]

This goes one of 2 ways.

Trunks summons his stomp generator.
Or
Shulk concept deletes.

 

[Spinoirr]

This is monado 2

 

[Ceoofmemes]

Not super familiar with Xenoblade but I think Shulk is baseline 2-A based off his profile. I think Trunks wins via AP difference and probability manip.

 

[Spinoirr]

Have someone who has more knowledge on shulks power set join in

Like Josh

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Isn't there a massive thing going on with DBH at the moment? Like it could upgrade it or heavily downgrade it? Shouldn't we wait till its done then debate about it.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

True

 

[Tripleaccel555]

DB game is under revision bro

Is this about upgrade or downgrade ?

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Is this about upgrade or downgrade ?

could go either way

 

[Spinoirr]

When will it be done?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

When will it be done?

idk, apparently there will be another CRT after to address more stuff (aka downgrades)

 

[Mickey1940]

does Trunks have an answer to fatehax gg?

like sure Trunks massively outskills and outscales AP wise cuz Monado 2 Shulk is an idiot combat wise, but Shulk pretty much has archie sonic 1 billion power ring levels of plot armor. I'm pretty sur the entire fight will just consist of Trunks trying to hit Shulk but all of his attacks miss Looney Toons style then Shulk smacks Trunks in the face until he dies

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Doesn't Trunks also have fate hax?

 

[Mickey1940]

Doesn't Trunks also have fate hax?

not that I'm aware of

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

I think I may be wrong

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Also from what I remember only few characters in DBH can summon Arale so is Trunks one of them?

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

So far Trunks has
Damage Manipulation (Can boost his damage. Passively reduce his opponent's damage up to 90%), Statistics Manipulation (Can passively increases his statistics. Can reduce his opponent's stats to bare minimum), Durability Negation (Can ignore durability and bypass defensive skill) Stamina Reduction (Can reduce his opponent stamina via normal attacks or skills) & Status Effect Inducement (Can disable all of his opponents abilities, powers and actions by reducing their stamina to zero; making them unable to act)

Does Shulk has any answer to this?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

So far Trunks has
Damage Manipulation (Can boost his damage. Passively reduce his opponent's damage up to 90%), Statistics Manipulation (Can passively increases his statistics. Can reduce his opponent's stats to bare minimum), Durability Negation (Can ignore durability and bypass defensive skill) Stamina Reduction (Can reduce his opponent stamina via normal attacks or skills) & Status Effect Inducement (Can disable all of his opponents abilities, powers and actions by reducing their stamina to zero; making them unable to act)

Does Shulk has any answer to this?

Fate hax, Shulk honestly stomps here.

Trunks can't kill or even perma incap him due to Fate hax and immortality. Shulk can 1 shot him via his layered deconstruction. Shulk's passive precog informs him of anything Trunks might try to pull on him. Passive Reactive Evolution gives Shulk even more to work with to deal with Trunks. Monado Eater steals buffs that Trunks might apply to himself along with having resistances to most of Trunks' abilities with this not even covering the passive damage transferal or status effects Shulk could make use of.

 

[Nierre]

It's not.

 

[Spinoirr]

Guys I'm using

1. Monado II Shulk is being used

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Guys I'm using

1. Monado II Shulk is being used

Yeah? We've been using that. Alvis has not been brought up at all just stuff that is on Shulk's Monado I and II keys.

 

[Mickey1940]

So far Trunks has
Damage Manipulation (Can boost his damage. Passively reduce his opponent's damage up to 90%), Statistics Manipulation (Can passively increases his statistics. Can reduce his opponent's stats to bare minimum), Durability Negation (Can ignore durability and bypass defensive skill) Stamina Reduction (Can reduce his opponent stamina via normal attacks or skills) & Status Effect Inducement (Can disable all of his opponents abilities, powers and actions by reducing their stamina to zero; making them unable to act)

Does Shulk has any answer to this?

fate hax gg

 

[Mickey1940]

Fate hax, Shulk honestly stomps here.

Trunks can't kill or even perma incap him due to Fate hax and immortality. Shulk can 1 shot him via his layered deconstruction. Shulk's passive precog informs him of anything Trunks might try to pull on him. Passive Reactive Evolution gives Shulk even more to work with to deal with Trunks. Monado Eater steals buffs that Trunks might apply to himself along with having resistances to most of Trunks' abilities with this not even covering the passive damage transferal or status effects Shulk could make use of.

Shulk's deconstruction comes from killing enemies after depleting their health bar
It's not applicable if he can't injure Trunks enough to kill him, meaning it's not practical to include it as a wincon
cuz if it was then fodder Bunnits have resistance to deconstruction to an extent due to being able to survive hits from the Monado
Monado eater doesn't steal buffs, it just removes them
but yeah I agree with everything else

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Shulk's deconstruction comes from killing enemies after depleting their health bar
It's not applicable if he can't injure Trunks enough to kill him, meaning it's not practical to include it as a wincon
cuz if it was then fodder Bunnits have resistance to deconstruction to an extent due to being able to survive hits from the Monado

That's game mechanics. In actual cutscenes it has shown to work on hit, the reason why it doesn't proc as often (other than the reason of it not being a thing until Xenoblade 2) is because a resistance to deconstruction is actually rather common. For example, even kids jump into the Cloud Sea for fun which is stated by The Architect (God) to disassemble matter it comes in contact with.

 

[Vietthai96]

Trunks only has resistance to Fate with Awakened Keysword, if this is under SBA then well he has the sword, if not yeah he lose, since his only offensive hax is space-time cut and iirc his power null is passive

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Trunks only has resistance to Fate with Awakened Keysword, if this is under SBA then well he has the sword, if not yeah he lose, since his only offensive hax is space-time cut and iirc his power null is passive

He actually doesn't. That was removed when that CRT mentioned above happened. Trunks lost a lot of his resistances with that CRT.

 

[Vietthai96]

He actually doesn't. That was removed when that CRT mentioned above happened. Trunks lost a lot of his resistances with that CRT.

Read the Awakened Keysword profile again, that form the sword possesing Time Power, and read Time Power page

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Ah I schnee, though the passive Reactive Evolution is capable of messing with that.
Though regardless, Shulk's layered precognition and other abilities like Supernatural Luck will help him out here since all he needs is a single hit to win here.

 

[Vietthai96]

Nah, assume Trunks has Awakened Keysword, which the Time Power mostly is passive, he can neg Reactive Evolution by revert Shulk to the state before his evolution kick in.

Also what is Shulk precog???, Time Power can precog Acausality 4 and resist it and Time Power of Awkened Keysword is very layered too, actually it is one of the top when it come to layer

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Nah, assume Trunks has Awakened Keysword, which the Time Power mostly is passive, he can neg Reactive Evolution by revert Shulk to the state before his evolution kick in.

Given the scans on the Time Power page with Chronoa's use of it, rewinding time is not passive and is an activation based ability which means Trunks would know he would have to do that. But for the sake of the argument lets say it is used on Shulk, funnily enough this would trigger his Reactive Evolution to allow him to become resistant to it as it has done so with other abilities such as Power Null. Bringing it back to the situation before.

Also what is Shulk precog???, Time Power can precog Acausality 4 and resist it and Time Power of Awkened Keysword is very layered too, actually it is one of the top when it come to layer

To keep things short, absurd. It can precog Type 4 and 2 Acausality (something Shulk becomes able to resist). Though Time Power's own precog wouldn't be helpful for 2 reasons.
1. Shulk has type 2 acausality.
2. It's downside of not being able to use other space-time abilities.

 

[Vietthai96]

Given the scans on the Time Power page with Chronoa's use of it, rewinding time is not passive and is an activation based ability which means Trunks would know he would have to do that.

Uh no, actually Dormant Keysword also have passive Power Null, which carried over to Awakened form, which in turn make most of Time Power hax passive, since reverse time to negate reactive evolution is also fall under power null

But for the sake of the argument lets say it is used on Shulk, funnily enough this would trigger his Reactive Evolution to allow him to become resistant to it as it has done so with other abilities such as Power Null. Bringing it back to the situation before.

I don't think so, since like above, TP reverse time to also power null, it can revert its victim back the state before they have the power, so it can well remove reactive evolution
Also since i'm on phone i just skim over Shulk profile, can his RE evo to resist time and power null hax??, since we don't assume that RE allow user to evolve against all kind of hax

To keep things short, absurd. It can precog Type 4 and 2 Acausality (something Shulk becomes able to resist). Though Time Power's own precog wouldn't be helpful for 2 reasons.
1. Shulk has type 2 acausality.
2. It's downside of not being able to use other space-time abilities.

Well TP precog can precog Demon which have higher degree of Acausality 4, also type 2 is pretty irrelevant here since both side have type 4. Also Demon don't have future at fall so it is pretty much similar to type 2
Lastly Trunks didn't need to precog, also under SBA which in-character he not going to use it anyway, what i want to say it he resist TP's precog

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Uh no, actually Dormant Keysword also have passive Power Null, which carried over to Awakened form, which in turn make most of Time Power hax passive, since reverse time to negate reactive evolution is also fall under power null

Yes, actually. The Reactive Evolution has triggered while being power nulled before when it encountered the Apocrypha and the Monado itself can also be rekindled with Shulk's own willpower which would also trigger the reactive evolution given the Monado responds to his will. The power null ain't anything new for it.

I don't think so, since like above, TP reverse time to also power null, it can revert its victim back the state before they have the power, so it can well remove reactive evolution
Also since i'm on phone i just skim over Shulk profile, can his RE evo to resist time and power null hax??, since we don't assume that RE allow user to evolve against all kind of hax

You can't revert the Monado back to before it has RE given it always had that. Especially given how Trunks would have to deal with this guy (who Trunks cannot even interact with) if he wanted to mess with the Monado that much. Though it working as power null helps given the Monado's history of developing resistances to it while being power nulled. And to answer your question, yes. That's why the RE part is so long, its very much like DMC or Castlevania reactive evolution. Also so ya know that assumption is in RE stuff is if its shown to be able to (in this case develop resistances) with a line being drawn if its something of an entirely higher scale like higher-D hax (like trying to say it can RE 1-A hax or something) or Plot Manipulation for example.

Well TP precog can precog Demon which have higher degree of Acausality 4, also type 2 is pretty irrelevant here since both side have type 4. Also Demon don't have future at fall so it is pretty much similar to type 2
Lastly Trunks didn't need to precog, also under SBA which in-character he not going to use it anyway, what i want to say it he resist TP's precog

...What?? Type 2 is still relevant as its a completely different thing than type 4, if it were similar they'd just be the same type. Just because Shulk also hax Type 4 doesn't mean Type 2 is just ignored.

Even without it, Shulk still only needs a single hit to take the W which is something that can be easily achieved through abilities like his Probability Manipulation.

 

[Ss3micah]

Already dealt with a DBH matchup just an hour ago lol
Not tackling this tonight

 

[Vietthai96]

Yes, actually. The Reactive Evolution has triggered while being power nulled before when it encountered the Apocrypha and the Monado itself can also be rekindled with Shulk's own willpower which would also trigger the reactive evolution given the Monado responds to his will. The power null ain't anything new for it.

Oke fair enough

You can't revert the Monado back to before it has RE given it always had that. Especially given how Trunks would have to deal with this guy (who Trunks cannot even interact with) if he wanted to mess with the Monado that much. Though it working as power null helps given the Monado's history of developing resistances to it while being power nulled. And to answer your question, yes. That's why the RE part is so long, its very much like DMC or Castlevania reactive evolution. Also so ya know that assumption is in RE stuff is if its shown to be able to (in this case develop resistances) with a line being drawn if its something of an entirely higher scale like higher-D hax (like trying to say it can RE 1-A hax or something) or Plot Manipulation for example

Oke fair enough, however still RE can't counter against hax that it not shown to be able to counter, not just higher scale, for example i have RE only to time hax doesn't mean i can also RE against matter hax, etc....

Anyway i'm mostly neutral to this match

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Oke fair enough, however still RE can't counter against hax that it not shown to be able to counter, not just higher scale, for example i have RE only to time hax doesn't mean i can also RE against matter hax, etc....

Anyway i'm mostly neutral to this match

You can actually have it work like that. You just need to clarify what it can and cannot do as stated on the Reactive Evolution page. What you seem to be talking about is Adaptation (especially given how you said its only to time hax) which is actually noted on the page with notable examples of this being. Its similar to Power Mimicry in that regard in how extreme it can get (hell, even the RE page mentions how extreme it can be).

If ya want though, I can call in a mod to help out with that RE talk, they helped me put it together in the first place and did other verses also so they'd know a thing or two about the topic.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Vietthai96 since when did DBH's power null ever stopped reactive evolution? You do realize time power no longer has that in the page right?

 

[Vietthai96]

@Vietthai96 since when did DBH's power null ever stopped reactive evolution? You do realize time power no longer has that in the page right?

Again it is pretty under reasonable assumuption, since it pretty much can negate opponent's ability to grow in battle by reverting them back to their original state, but anyway it is not a debate anymore since i concluded with Josh comment. And last time i checked, we are allowed to make reasonable assumption

 

[Theglassman12]

That’s not a reasonable assumption that a typical JRPG power null that is targeted against energy consumed power amps automatically equates negating reactive evolution, which the whole point of it is adapting and evolving on the fly, saying it does with no evidence is a NLF.