Transduality type 3 for Maou Gakuin character

[TheUnshakableOne]

Where on the transduality staff revision thread does it say that being both 1 and 0 amd neither 1 and 0 qualifies for type 3? I was under the assumption that was a higher level of type 2.

 

[Dereck03]

Thanks. I was going to be here much later but I left an unfinished Pokémon business lol

Ahahaha, yeah I was wondering the same thing, they almost finished things without you.

 

[Dereck03]

Where on the transduality staff revision thread does it say that being both 1 and 0 amd neither 1 and 0 qualifies for type 3? I was under the assumption that was a higher level of type 2.

We asked DT and he said that's the case if you also meet the other requirements.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Thanks. I was going to be here much later but I left an unfinished Pokémon business lol

Good to have you back

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

We asked DT and he said that's the case if you also meet the other requirements.

Link please?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Huh, so it's okay to ignore something that a verse explicitly treats as duality in every way? It remains a clear duality.

I never said it was okay, I said that's why I was thinking that it should be a possibly to begin with

Ah, it was yours? sorry I just woke up and checked everything over without seeing who posted what.

As I said previously, Eques himself is called an aggregate of all the gods and rules the world of Militia as the will of the world, as the chief god and thus above all the countless gods that exist in the macrocosms. Eques is also called god of gears, he has countless gears where he has the gods, he is able to rewrite the order and the gods as well as to create the gods and their orders and use them if he wants as an addition to his gears. Even Eques can make the existence of 2 contradictory orders (which if they exist at the same time in the same place can lead to the destruction of the world) exist without problems, just as he did with Creation and Destruction, all the orders that exist as well as those that contradict themselves by existing at the same time coexist in the gears of eques which is the power of the order of Eques itself. And as I said, Gods cannot go against order, that's why contradictory orders and gods cannot be in the same place at the same time, but the order of the chief god can make that contradiction never happen.

And again if esques makes two contradictory order co-exists the contradiction of that would not be neither but both. Still won't grant a five truth states

Unfortunately, I do not know.

Oh aikt

 

[Dereck03]

And again if esques makes two contradictory order co-exists the contradiction of that would not be neither but both. Still won't grant a five truth states

I speak of a state beyond even Duality, nonduality, onesees and absurdity. The reason/logic in Mg is what it is. You say that the most order-related thing would be 4 states, right? I think I read that someone said that Maou would not even qualify for type 2 but I think I read it wrong. What would be the reason that it is a state beyond order that is above all verse?

So about this?

 

[sen_]

Where on the transduality staff revision thread does it say that being both 1 and 0 amd neither 1 and 0 qualifies for type 3? I was under the assumption that was a higher level of type 2.

you can't be described as the 1st state (A is true while B is false), the 2nd state (A is false while B is true), the 3rd (A and B are simultaneously true) or the 4th (A and B are simultaneously false), which means you are in a 5th truth state

 

[Dereck03]

Link please?

Here.

 

[PrinceofPein]

So about this?

TD 2 and 3 requires you to be beyond duality to begin with so like I said it's just a supporting evidence for whatever type they have to begin with

 

[Dereck03]

TD 2 and 3 requires you to be beyond duality to begin with so like I said it's just a supporting evidence for whatever type they have to begin with

But, we have 4 states with the order per se according to you, the reason being beyond the order in every sense, this same one does not care if you are Acausal, Transdual, Nondual, Nonexistent, all that before the reason can be altered, affected or destroyed, Venuzdonoa is a clear example of that is to manipulate the reason, the reason does not follow anything related to everything previously said so to compare it with that is useless.

Before this Reason Destroying Sword all reason is meaningless. Magical things like distances and dimensions are irrelevant. In front of this Reason Destroying Sword, all reason turns to nothing, therefore it is useless to think about what it can or cannot do.

 

[PrinceofPein]

But, we have 4 states with the order per se according to you, the reason being beyond the order in every sense, this same one does not care if you are Acausal, Transdual, Nondual, Nonexistent, all that before the reason can be altered, affected or destroyed, Venuzdonoa is a clear example of that is to manipulate the reason, the reason does not follow anything related to everything previously said so to compare it with that is useless.

Before this Reason Destroying Sword all reason is meaningless. Magical things like distances and dimensions are irrelevant. In front of this Reason Destroying Sword, all reason turns to nothing, therefore it is useless to think about what it can or cannot do.

And how should this relate to TD3?

 

[Dereck03]

And how should this relate to TD3?

I don't want to relate it to Transduality, but reason remains fundamental as what is beyond all verse. If the transduality of Anos and Grahams lacks order and reason, in other words, is a transduality that lacks order (Duality, Nonduality, onensess, abusurdity) and reason (which is beyond transduality itself by being beyond order), it would not be a 5 state? As I said, venuzdonoa also does not follow the reason why this does not apply to it but it can manipulate, alter and destroy it so it can even destroy things that lacks reason.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I don't want to relate it to Transduality, but reason remains fundamental as what is beyond all verse. If the transduality of Anos and Grahams lacks order and reason, in other words, is a transduality that lacks order (Duality, Nonduality, onensess, abusurdity) and reason (which is beyond transduality itself by being beyond order), it would not be a 5 state?

It does though. LMAO

 

[PrinceofPein]

I don't want to relate it to Transduality, but reason remains fundamental as what is beyond all verse. If the transduality of Anos and Grahams lacks order and reason, in other words, is a transduality that lacks order (Duality, Nonduality, onensess, abusurdity) and reason (which is beyond transduality itself by being beyond order), it would not be a 5 state? As I said, venuzdonoa also does not follow the reason why this does not apply to it but it can manipulate, alter and destroy it so it can even destroy things that lacks reason.

No it won't be and reason is not a duality to begin with and irrelevant to this thread

 

[Dereck03]

No it won't be and reason is not a duality to begin with and irrelevant to this thread

and reason (which is beyond transduality itself by being beyond order)

Lacking reason means lacking Transduality, and if we get picky also NEP 2 and Aca 5.

 

[ImmortalDread]

No it won't be and reason is not a duality to begin with and irrelevant to this thread

Dang Pain, the reason is literally beyond NEP 2, Aca type 5 and transduality, this is literally how the verse works.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Lacking reason means lacking Transduality, and if we get picky also NEP 2 and Aca 5.

That is not my problem like I said reason is not a duality and reason been above duality in the verse and anos and Graham been outside of it is just layers into TD2, nothing more

Dang Pain, the reason is literally beyond NEP 2, Aca type 5 and transduality, this is literally how the verse works.

And like I said irrelevant to this thread which is for upgrading them from TD2

 

[ImmortalDread]

That is not my problem like I said reason is not a duality and reason been above duality in the verse and anos and Graham been outside of it is just layers into TD2, nothing more

And like I said irrelevant to this thread which is for upgrading them to TD2

No pain, this is not “your problem”, this is not how you counter-arguments.
Also, this thread upgrades them to TD 3.

 

[ImmortalDread]

And how is it layers???????

 

[PrinceofPein]

No pain, this is not “your problem”, this is not how you counter-arguments.

Not my problem if it is irrelevant to the thread,

Also, this thread upgrades them to TD 3.

Was a typo edited it

 

[Dereck03]

Well, unfortunately I have to leave, there is an urgent matter I have to attend to, I will be back in a few hours, but remember, we have 4 possible states based only on the order shown here. Reason cannot be categorized as a state? Right. Lacking reason means lack, Duality, Nonduality, Onensess, Absurdity, Transduality, Acausality, Nonexistence, Concepts, Laws, practically the whole verse and reason follows beyond. And taking into account the Transduality as a state, it would be the 5 state that so much clamor, unfortunately there is nothing above the Transduality in the wiki, but in Maou the reason is above the transduality itself and can do what it wants with it as well as it was shown what venuzdonoa is able to do.

That is not my problem like I said reason is not a duality and reason been above duality in the verse and anos and Graham been outside of it is just layers into TD2, nothing more

Reason is not a duality, it is a state even beyond transduality, that is why lacking reason means lacking transduality. And no, the layers can easily be obtained from the gods and chief gods of each layer, but they still follow reason. Argh, that's why we need the manipulation of logic in the wiki, since I can't explain what the reason is.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Not my problem if it is irrelevant to the thread,

Was a typo edited it

Kinda is. But whatever you say

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well, unfortunately I have to leave, there is an urgent matter I have to attend to, I will be back in a few hours, but remember, we have 4 possible states based only on the order shown here. Reason cannot be categorized as a state? Right. Lacking reason means lack, Duality, Nonduality, Onensess, Absurdity, Transduality, Acausality, Nonexistence, Concepts, Laws, practically the whole verse and reason follows beyond. And taking into account the Transduality as a state, it would be the 5 state that so much clamor, unfortunately there is nothing above the Transduality in the wiki, but in Maou the reason is above the transduality itself and can do what it wants with it as well as it was shown what venuzdonoa is able to do.

Reason is not a duality, it is a state even beyond transduality, that is why lacking reason means lacking transduality. And no, the layers can easily be obtained from the gods and chief gods of each layer, but they still follow reason. Argh, that's why we need the manipulation of logic in the wiki, since I can't explain what the reason is.

You have absolutely no idea what you are saying that's all I can say. Like really what you just said in comparison to the TD system of the wiki is absolutely incoherent I.e. they have no relationship.
And I don't appreciate twisting my words, if you don't understand or don't comprehend them, then that's fine you can ask me to explain better I will but don't twist them in a misguided way to fit your own narrative.


Reason only works here if the whole verse that you said reason is outside of, is a duality on its own, then the whole verse becomes A then you will still have to show how A can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false. And A must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier.

Your whole logic is nonsense to say the least. As the verse itself is not a duality or what will it be? "Maou verse" and "not maou verse".

If you dont understand ask questions don't twist.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You have absolutely no idea what you are saying that's all I can say. Like really what you just said in comparison to the TD system of the wiki is absolutely incoherent I.e. they have no relationship.
And I don't appreciate twisting my words, if you don't understand or don't comprehend them, then that's fine you can ask me to explain better I will but don't twist them in a misguided way to fit your own narrative.


Reason only works here if the whole verse that you said reason is outside of, is a duality on its own, then the whole verse becomes A then you will still have to show how A can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false. And A must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier.

Your whole logic is nonsense to say the least. As the verse itself is not a duality or what will it be? "Maou verse" and "not maou verse".

If you dont understand ask questions don't twist.

Just to point out you don't understand how reason works in the verse.

Reason > order

Its not your normal reason what you see everywhere and everyday. What Dereck said is true. You just lack knowledge on how reason works in the verse that's all.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Just to point out you don't understand how reason works in the verse.

Reason > order

Its not your normal reason what you see everywhere and everyday. What Dereck said is true about the verse. You just lack how reason works in the verse that's all.

See let me put it this way, if you transcend a universe that contains all dualities, that still wont give you TD3.
You just don't get what TD is in the first place

 

[sen_]

Eques existence is the Aggregation of "all order". Being just 0 and 1 alone is not enough to contradict him.

given eques is the aggregation of all order and thus both A and B at the same time, the fact arcana can contradict him means she is in a state of neither A nor B (actually both A and B and neither of those if we consider the OP scan). Anos' true nature is the negative providence that is the opposite of all order which includes the order of absurdity, Thus Anos and Graham can't be described as: A is true while B is false (singular order), A is false while B is true (also singular order), A and B are both true (the duality of order in general), A and B are both false (their nature contradicts even arcana's order) so they belong to an alternate 5th state

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

See let me put it this way, if you transcend a universe that contains all dualities, that still wont give you TD3.
You just don't get what TD is in the first place

No one said that's type 3. I don't know where you get that idea.

Reason is not a duality, it is a state even beyond transduality, that is why lacking reason means lacking transduality. And no, the layers can easily be obtained from the gods and chief gods of each layer, but they still follow reason. Argh, that's why we need the manipulation of logic in the wiki, since I can't explain what the reason is.

Read what he wrote correctly.

 

[PrinceofPein]

No one said that's type 3. I don't know where you get that idea.

Read what he wrote correctly.

Read what I said also correctly and what I am replying to

 

[Tatsumi504]

given eques is the aggregation of all order and thus both A and B at the same time, the fact arcana can contradict him means she is in a state of neither A nor B (actually both A and B and neither of those if we consider the OP scan). Anos' true nature is the negative providence that is the opposite of all order which includes the order of absurdity, Thus Anos and Graham can't be described as: A is true while B is false (singular order), A is false while B is true (also singular order), A and B are both true (the duality of order in general), A and B are both false (their nature contradicts even arcana's order) so they belong to an alternate 5th state

Exactly

 

[PrinceofPein]

given eques is the aggregation of all order and thus both A and B at the same time, the fact arcana can contradict him means she is in a state of neither A nor B (actually both A and B and neither of those if we consider the OP scan). Anos' true nature is the negative providence that is the opposite of all order which includes the order of absurdity, Thus Anos and Graham can't be described as: A is true while B is false (singular order), A is false while B is true (also singular order), A and B are both true (the duality of order in general), A and B are both false (their nature contradicts even arcana's order) so they belong to an alternate 5th state

She is not in a state of neither, that's is head canon, as a state of neither is stilll a state of both actually in Maou, since 0 and 1 in this verse contradiction is 1 and 0. Not a lack of 0 and 1
To use an example of the verse, duality of ice and flame, the contradiction will be flame and ice. not a lack of flame and ice
So there is nothing complicated here

 

[Tatsumi504]

She is not in a state of neither, that's is head canon, as a state of neither is stilll a state of both actually in Maou, since 0 and 1 in this verse contradiction is 1 and 0. Not a lack of 0 and 1
To use an example of the verse, duality of ice and flame, the contradiction will be flame and ice. not a lack of flame and ice
So there is nothing complicated here

Where tf is this blatant head canon coming from? How does switching the positions of 0, 1 mean anything?

Arcana's contradiction is being neither.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Where tf is this blatant head canon coming from? How does switching the positions of 0, 1 mean anything?

which is my point it means nothing

Arcana's contradiction is being neither.

Proof of that?
that would mean she lack all the order in that case, which is not the case.
again read this again

She is not in a state of neither, that's is head canon, as a state of neither is stilll a state of both actually in Maou, since 0 and 1 in this verse contradiction is 1 and 0. Not a lack of 0 and 1
To use an example of the verse, duality of ice and flame, the contradiction will be flame and ice. not a lack of flame and ice
So there is nothing complicated here

 

[sen_]

She is not in a state of neither, that's is head canon, as a state of neither is stilll a state of both actually in Maou, since 0 and 1 in this verse contradiction is 1 and 0. Not a lack of 0 and 1
To use an example of the verse, duality of ice and flame, the contradiction will be flame and ice. not a lack of flame and ice
So there is nothing complicated here

which is my point it means nothing

in the first reply you say switching A and B is a contradiction and in the second you say it means nothing?, btw no that's not how it works, let's take the sun of destruction and moon of creation as examples and let's call them A and B, when A is true B is false, but reversing it will not change or contradict anything so the only possible contradiction of that duality would be either both A and B or neither of those, now Eques is the aggregation of all order which means he's already both A and B, which means the only possible contradiction is being in a state of neither.

 

[PrinceofPein]

in the first reply you say switching A and B is a contradiction and in the second you say it means nothing?, btw no that's not how it works, let's take the sun of destruction and moon of creation as examples and let's call them A and B, when A is true B is false, but reversing it will not change or contradict anything so the only possible contradiction of that duality would be either both A and B or neither of those, now Eques is the aggregation of all order which means he's already both A and B, which means the only possible contradiction is being in a state of neither.

And we are talking about order here, which means the contradiction is a state of no order at all and that makes absolutely no sense.

Also their fight portrayed her using orders so your point is moot

 

[sen_]

And we are talking about order here, which means the contradiction is a state of no order at all and that makes absolutely no sense.

that supports the point that her nature is a 5th truth state as she is both a contradiction of order and part of order, the scans in the OP also support this point.

Also their fight portrayed her using orders so your point is moot

same as before.

 

[PrinceofPein]

that supports the point that her nature is a 5th truth state as she is both a contradiction of order and part of order, the scans in the OP also support this point.

As in she was using specific order not a combination or contradiction.
And no nothing so far supports your TD3 or a fifth states.
Please get a hand of TD first

same as before.

Nope, using normal orders makes the entire argument fall apart

 

[sen_]

As in she was using specific order not a combination or contradiction.

her using it doesn't really prove or disprove anything from my point of view but okay

And no nothing so far supports your TD3 or a fifth states.

"It shined brightly like the sun, blinked like a cold moon, and its frozen flowers were burning. One after another, the flowers gathered behind Arcana, creating a moon-like and sun-like, created an object that is neither of them.", it shows both the properties of A and B but is actually neither

Please get a hand of TD first

i do understand what TD is, but this is irrelevant to the argument.

 

[Dog3352]

The Arcana order is not part of the Dualities system, it has nothing that contradicts or something contrary to the Arcana order, and completely on the contrary, the Arcana order which is the contradiction of all orders. Arcana can make totally opposite dualities that shouldn't exist next to each other exist next to each other as if it were nothing, the fact that she can do this alone makes it obvious that her order is not part of the system of dualities of the world, mainly because no God (Other than the Main God) can make any change in the world order, it goes completely against any world order.

 

[sen_]

The Arcana order is not part of the Dualities system, it has nothing that contradicts or something contrary to the Arcana order, and completely on the contrary, the Arcana order which is the contradiction of all orders. Arcana can make totally opposite dualities that shouldn't exist next to each other exist next to each other as if it were nothing, the fact that she can do this alone makes it obvious that her order is not part of the system of dualities of the world, mainly because no God (Other than the Main God) can make any change in the world order, it goes completely against any world order.

yup, but it's still order which means she's both part of the duality and isn't at the same time. That's where the 5th truth state comes from.