(To Aru Revision) A Certain Magical Revision New Testament

[FantaRin_The_First]

Purpose

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Hey, hey, fanta here. This thread serves as a follow-up to my previous CRT regarding the ToAru-verse, and was created for the purpose of applying new calculations I made for the verse. At the very least, this thread will remove the 'At Least 9-B, Likely 9-A' Ratings for many characters and replace them with higher ratings since if everything goes to plan, this CRT will upgrade many characters into the Tier 8 Range. All of my calculations in this CRT are attack potency and durability calculations, btw, as I'll handle ToAru's Speed and LS issues in a future CRT.

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TLDR

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1. Removal of the High 1-C ratings from Kihara Yuiitsu and Kamisato Kakeru should be removed as it isn't directly High 1-C in AP but can only affect upto High 1-C beings/attacks/etcetera under certain conditions due to the BFR hax in Kamisato's Right Hand - same case for Kamijou Touma as well, however, Touma's High 1-C AP rating will be replaced with durability negation.
2. Removal of High 7-A Ratings in Kamijou Touma, Misaka Mikoto, and Sogiita Gunha profiles
3. Upgrade the abilities (and physical stats in the case of Gunha and Kakine's Second Key) Level Fives (Sogiita Gunha, Mugino Shizuri, Misaka Mikoto, Kakine Teitoku, and Accelerator[first two keys]) will have their ratings changed entirely -Mikoto's magnetism will have its ratings removed entirely and be replaced with higher rating (for base) and far higher (for L6S Mikoto), Mikoto's Railgun and Mugino's Meltdowner will be [At Least 8-A+, Possibly 7-C (14.01 Kilotons)] (and Mugino will lose her dura-neg), Mikoto's Lightning will be Varies 7-C to 7-B, and Gunha, L6S Mikoto, Kakine, and Accel [first two keys] will be [At Least 7-B (31.05 Megatons), Possibly 7-A (621 Megatons) or Possibly Far Higher] - (Correction: L6S Mikoto 's lightning and black sphere will be flat-out 7-A, but her other attacks will be At least 7-B, possibly 7-A)
   1. Extra - Note, the upgrades to Mikoto's first key will also affect Mikoto's Clones, the 9970 Sisters and Misaka Worst. The former is stated to have 1/20000th of Mikoto's power (1.55 Kilotons of TNT). The latter, and more stronger clone, is stated to have 1/5th of Mikoto's power (6.21 Megatons of TNT).
4. Upgrade the Magic of Magic Users from 8-B to Likely 7-C (10.04 Kilotons) | If this is not possible, just list Magic for Magic Users as Higher
5. Upgrade the lower tier cast members from At Least 9-B, Likely 9-A to At Least 8-B (12.88 Tons), Likely 8-A (359.97 Tons) | Compromise - At Least 8-C (0.98 Tons) or High 8-C (6.63 Tons), Likely 8-B (12.88 Tons)

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Explanation of TLDR

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1. The three characters with High 1-C ratings have them via hax. Hax that BFR things or people that are High 1-C under certain conditions or hax that negate the supernatural things done even by High 1-C folks. That is all. Nothing more to explain.
2. The high 7-A ratings come from a defunct calculation that isn't viable anymore. So should be removed by the three profiles that have such ratings.
3. The 7-B rating comes from a KE Cloud calc done by Mikoto's lightning that parted clouds. The 7-C comes from the lightning of a mentally distressed and not all there Mikoto who was trying to prevent Touma from entering a one-way death battle (from her point of view). Varies comes from the fact that Mikoto has the explicit ability to control the output of her lightning and in-character lowers the output of her attacks to keep in-line with her moral code.
4. The 7-A comes with this statement that is attributed to Mikoto's L6S Form (which is much stronger than her base) which states her L6S form is dozens of times more powerful than her base self, which means she is at least 20x stronger than her base self. This form of Mikoto was fought by Gunha, who could withstand her attacks and cancel them via his sheer strength and bullcrud to the point that this form of Mikoto had to undergo through several evolutions/transformation via her accelerated development to overpower him... But even then, Gunha could keep up to a degree - it should be noted that Accelerator is noted to be the strongest Esper by the narrative and by several other individuals (and proven by Accelerator later fighting people that... aren't really the top dogs but more powerful than anything in AC has to offer), with Kakine being able to keep up with him and fight him to a degree, so they scale above Gunha, who scales to a Base!L6S Mikoto (that had literally just started existing and hadn't underwent any transformations via AD), to a large degree.
5. Mugino's Meltdowner and Mikoto's Railgun gets a Possibly 7-C, due to the 7-C Rating coming from a character that their abilities should naturally be much stronger against, so they just get a Possibly next to their 7-C rating. That is it. Nothing much else to explain here.
6. Same thing from 5 applies to the 7-C calc for the Magic Users, i.e, Magic Users in the ToAru Verse get a Possibly 7-C rating for their magic via a feat that was done by a magician that shouldn't be much stronger than the average magician. Nothing more, nothing less.
7. Last but most important of all... Upgrades for the Lower Tiers. The 8-A calc belongs to a female character named Yumi that is currently used as a scaling tool which gives characters a Possibly 9-A rating via her being equal to another female character named Mami who (in an extremely casual manner) made a 9-A feat. Yumi is being used as a scaling tool due to her being an Esper that doesn't boost her physical stats or makes her more capable of withstand attacks and being apart of an organization named Judgment, which holds a few members that are important side-characters that makes a number of appearances in the canon spin-offs and the mainline story, one of which is a girl named Kuroko who was a main "protagonist" in two volume of the Index LN and fought alongside the main character of the Index LN, Kamijou Touma.
8. The High 8-C (6.63 Tons) and 8-B (12.88 Tons) calc both come from Touma. Who has harmed numerous other characters in the verse with his fists and has been harmed by numerous other characters in the verse by other characters' physical attacks and supernatural attacks. Nuff said. The 8-C (0.98) calc comes from a guy named Seike, who withstood such a feat with his body and wasn't injured or harmed by it until Accelerator messed with his bioelectricity / used durability negation against him via bio manip, and is capable of harming himself.

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Calculations - [17 New, 2 Old]

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1. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_7#Kinetic_Energy | 31.05 Megatons of TNT [City level] (7-B) {New}
2. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FantaRin_The_First/Railgun_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_7#CAPE | 539.64 Kilotons [High 7-C] (Large Town level) {New}
3. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FantaRin_The_First/Railgun_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_6 | 64.54 Kilotons [7-C+] (Town level)
4. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rst/Accelerator_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_4 | 14.01 Kilotons (7-C) [Town level]
5. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FantaRin_The_First/Index_LN_Feat_Calculations | 10.04 Kilotons of TNT (7-C) (Town level)
6. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rst/Accelerator_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_3 | 359.97 Tons (Multi-City Block level) [8-A]
7. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_4_Fre/nda_Edition | 129.79 Tons (8-A) [Multi-City Block, 18.54 Tons (8-B) [City Block]
8. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...lating_Touma_Kamijou_Feats_Part_6#Calculation | 60.58 Tons (City Block level) [8-B+] {New}
9. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rst/Accelerator_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_2 | 43.68 tons of TNT (City Block level) [8-B] [Forgot to use in my last CRT for the various]
10. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ulating_Touma_Kamijou_Feats_Part_1#Extra_Calc | 27.32 (City Block level) [8-B] [Couldn't really use this in my last CRT various]
11. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rst/Accelerator_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_6 | 20.59 Tons of TNT [City Block level] [8-B]
12. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._First/Calculating_Touma_Kamijou_Feats_Part_4 | 12.88 Tons (8-B) [City Block level]
13. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._First/Calculating_Touma_Kamijou_Feats_Part_5 | 6.63 Tons (High 8-C) [Large Building level] {New}
14. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rst/Accelerator_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_7 | 3.94 Tons of TNT (High 8-C) [Large Building level]
15. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rst/Accelerator_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_5 | 0.98 Tons of TNT (Building level) [8-C]
16. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rst/Accelerator_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_8 | 0.37 (8-C) [Building level] {New}
17. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...st/Astral_Buddy_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_2 | 0.28 Tons (8-C) [Building level]
18. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...st/Astral_Buddy_Manga_Feat_Calculation_Part_1 | 23.8944166 Megajoules (Small Building level) [9-A]
19. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._First/Calculating_Touma_Kamijou_Feats_Part_3 | 13.42 Megajoules (9-B+) [Wall level]

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Proposal of CRT

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[Proposal 1]​

... I'm going to start with something that isn't related to the calculations I have listed above - basically, I want to remove the High 7-A ratings from Mikoto, Touma, and Gunha's profiles. From my understanding, the calculation that gave the High 7-A isn't valid anymore and was meant to be removed by now, but nobody bothered to do so. I'm going to do this here since what I am going to do in this CRT are going to affect those profiles so might as well do some clean-up.

[Proposal 2]​

Second, I have two 7-C (well, technically, three) calculations... So, I want to upgrade the five-combat capable Level 5 Espers, and only them, to 7-C. And only the level 5s, and not any other Esper.

Wait... well, actually, before we continue, I want to talk about Mikoto's profile, or rather the mess that has caused her to have an 8-A rating with Magnetism and Railgun and 7-C with Lightning Strikes, first.

Magnetism is a byproduct/side-technique due to Mikoto's powers as an electromancer, and she typically uses it as pseudo-telekinesis through her making constructions out of iron sand (including but not limited to swords, tidal waves, and golem/mecha), using nearby metal objects to defend herself against attacks, and other telekinesis-like stuff - aka, LS stuff.

Mikoto's Lightning Strikes doesn't refer to lighting from the skies but electricity/lightning that Mikoto can generate around her body to attack other people, and can project said electricity/lightning in different ways to create various types of attacks and applications. For example, she can use the electricity she generates to make her signature attack, the Railgun (which is also what she named her ability), and due to lessons from a person named Junko Hokaze, Mikoto can even apply her ability onto her body to increase her physical ability, although for the last thing, she requires really fine control and a single mistake could give her a serious injury (since it isn't just plain enhancement but more along the lines of manipulating her body) and Mikoto isn't well-trained in it (and it doesn't help she is vastly more powerful than Junko, which is very bad for something that requires precision and can mess her up - like below, for example).

“You can use your power on your own nerves? Is there anything you can’t do?”

(I…)


An unpleasant sound caught up to her, but she sensed it more through her bones than from her ears.

(I dislocated…my thigh!!)

This was a trick she had learned from the Queen of Tokiwadai Middle School’s right-hand girl who handled most of the physical work since the Queen herself was so hopelessly unathletic, but just being able to control electricity was not enough to pull it off. Mikoto’s power was strong enough that she had to be very careful to avoid frying her own nerves or breaking her own bones.

• Toaru Kagaku no Railgun SS3 - Mikoto's one, and only, usage of her strengthening ability.

... Also, for some reason, Mikoto can manipulate the weather and create thunderclouds on a whim. Might be able to scale to her AP via her using her ability to manipulate clouds to form said thunderclouds and her capability of sending her electricity into the air to rain down a thunderbolt.

Not saying all of this to argue that Mikoto should be entirely 7-C - but rather... It is just weird to have two of her two main methods of attack listed as 8-A, but have one method of attack listed as 7-C despite the fact that Mikoto can passively generate the energy of the attack, can used the energy to propel objects to attack people, and can use her powers on herself to boost herself. And the two 8-A ratings come from her Railgun, which, again, is propelled by the energy she generates. In-universe, the first 8-A railgun calculation comes from a 12/13yr Mikoto who just came up with he attack on the fly to save some folks, and the second 8-A railgun calculation comes from a Mikoto who might've lowered her attack output due to her being cautious of her opponent's ability.

... Yes, to add on to that last part, it should be stated that Mikoto explicitly has the ability to control the output of her attacks.

So... I propose that Mikoto's AP Rating should be this, Tier: [Rating Here] Physically, 7-C with Railgun.

I would like to repeat that Mikoto's ability is formally named Railgun after her namesake signature move, so the term in the AP section refers to her Electromancer Esper ability in its entirety.

Of course, this also applies to the five other Level 5 that scales to her (and who are superior to her to varying levels in varying categories - Accelerator stomps her to the ground even when he is a cripple with brain damage, Kakine Teitoku could keep up Accelerator and fight against him for some time (even if Accelerator was more focused on keeping people safe from their battle), Mugino Shizuri is comparable if not superior to Mikoto in terms of firepower but loses to her in terms of versatility, and Gunha Sogiita can keep up with Mikoto in her base state and in her Level 6 Shift state that is magnitudes stronger than her in every category in her base form for some time until she accelerated development-ed her way into being stronger than he and his own brand of bullcrud could handle.

... Also, as a side note, making the Level 5 7-Cs would put them much closer to Maidono Hoshimi, a level 4 Esper, who is High 7-C via this calc and who is explicitly stated to have a power that could produce Level 5-class destructive output but isn't a Level 5 herself due to her power being too focused on destruction and killing.

[Proposal 3]​

Thirdly, I have a 7-C calc for the Magic Users of the ToAru-Verse. I think we, then, should upgrade the Magic rating for Magic Users from 8-B to 7-C. That is it... If this doesn't work out, let's just give Magic Users a higher rating for their magic.

[Proposal 4]​

Fourthly... Basically in my last ToAru CRT which strived to make a vast amount of the various less superhuman characters into At Least 9-B, Likely 9-Aers, but, well... I wish to one-up that CRT by making the characters whose profiles I edited (and the characters whose profiles I have yet to edit cuz there are so many gosh darn profiles and I came across feats that needed to be calculated) into...

At Least 8-B, Likely 8-A.

Got two 8-C calcs, one High 8-C calcs, five 8-B calcs, and two 8-A (three, if you count my 8-A+ that is currently applied to the LV5s) calcs - I figured I got enough proof for an 8-B ratings, and got two "non-superhuman" characters to survive 8-A attacks albeit they were injuried by said attacks; which I think is enough for either a Likely 8-A rating... or a Possibly 8-A, as a compromise.

[Proposal 5]​

Fifthly, and to also get this over with... Let's remove the High 1-C ratings from Kamisato Kakeru as he only has the ratings via BFRing High (11-D manipulating) 1-C beings and their stuff via his right hand named World Rejector - said BFR is also extremely enticing for said High 1-C beings and a good portion of 'em might have willingly let themselves get BFRed by Kakeru; in fact, it was directly shown and stated that they were a-okay on where they ended up and they could even potentially leave if they wanted to do so but they consciously choses not to do so since they enjoy where they ended up in.

Basically it is a non-offensive hax that doesn't hurt or harm anybody, and just sends people/things somewhere else... Yes, it is literally a hand that can isekai shiz to another world.

In addition, if Kakeru loses his High 1-C right hand, Kihara Yuiitsu will also lose her High 1-C rating as she removed and transplanted Kakeru's right hand, the hand that holds the power called World Rejector, it into her own body - i.e, Yuiitsu is literally using Kakeru's right hand, simpy put.

[Proposal 6]​

Sixthly, speaking of High 1-C Right Hands... Let's talk about the High 1-C rating that Touma Kamijou has in his attack potency due to Imagine Breaker having the same effect as it does against supernatural bodies. No, wait... Have this quote.

With a glittering jewel on its forehead, the giant horse gave a tremendous neigh and
charged toward Kamijou.
Depending on the breed, even normal horses could weigh 400-500 kilograms. This horse
was two or three sizes larger than that and it showed no concern over its head scraping
against the tunnel ceiling that shot by at such high speed. If that thing struck a flesh-andblood human, the human could easily be smashed to pieces.
However, Kamijou Touma’s right hand held a power called Imagine Breaker.
The strength of his opponent did not matter. All that mattered was that his opponent was
supported by the supernatural power known as magic. He could then smash them to
pieces with a single fist no matter who or what they were.
“Ohhhhhhh!!”
Kamijou stepped forward while desperately suppressing the desire to surrender to this
giant horse that was even destroying the fluorescent lights on the tunnel roof as it
advanced. He slammed his fist against the chest of the horse that looked more frightening
than the bumper of a large truck.
The aggregation of tightened red thread burst like a balloon and disappeared into thin air.

• New Testament Volume 8 Chapter 4 Part 2

There are also these two [1] quotes [2]. But the main quote above is enough to prove my point - Touma shouldn't have a High 1-C rating in his AP, instead it should be replaced with durability negation against supernatural bodies and existences... which I am pretty sure is already stated in his profile to start with but is tied with Touma's High 1-C Rating.

... Also, before it is bought up, Touma keeps his High 1-C durability rating with Imagine Breaker. It can handle High 1-C shiz fine. His AP just shouldn't have a High 1-C rating as he isn't attacking and/or striking with High 1-C force with his right hand... Note; some people have one of their attack scaled to Imagine Breaker via them overcoming it, but... That's wrong. Their attacks only overcame Imagine Breaker via them just regenerating faster than his right hand can deal with, them having a power source that was too massive to deal with, or them using multiple attacks at once [in the first notable case, Touma's opponent was using/invoking 103,000 different types of "instant death" spells at the same time, and the second notable case, Touma's opponent was essentially casting a standard spell two billion times at once.]

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Side Notes

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[Note 1]​

There are several pieces of tech and weapons in the ToAru-Verse that have profiles. The Five-Over "Railgun", for example, which is 9-B physically (and has an 8-A weapon). Also, I gotta direct attention to a good number of other 9-Bs (and a few 9-As & 8-Cs) that predated my ToAru calc but were given said ratings without a calc and were only given their ratings due to statements... Not sure what to do with 'em or how to scale 'em, tbh. Suggestions would be helpful. I am leaning towards upgrading them to keep it simple and clean since a lot of 'em are still a threat to the lower-level cast mems, but that might just be my laziness speaking.

[Note 2]​

Not sure what to do about Mikoto's durability, however... Maybe 7-C with Railgun as well for simplicity's sake? She isn't like Mugino who's AP scales to Mikoto with her Meltdowner Beams and her Dura scales to her AP as it is explicitly her Meltdowner Beams that are just manipulated into the shapes of shields and barriers to protect herself. It is the same case with Kakine and his Dark Matter, and he flat-out scales physically to his Dark Matter in his second key as his very being existence is made up of his Dark Matter. In the case of Gunha, he flat out scales physically to his Esper powers due to his feats when he fought against Mikoto. Accelerator has his own can of beans regarding durability via his own High 1-C durability, so he doesn't matter and I am extremely unleveled to deal with that sort of topic... Nonetheless, this thread needs to figure out something here for Mikoto.

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Vote Counter

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Agree: @Excel616, @Aseka (On At Least 8-C, Likely 8-B Compromise, agree overall with everything else), @RandomGuy2345 (Agrees with almost everything; but is neutral regarding Tier 1 Matters with IB and WR), @Just_a_Random_Butler (Mod - Agrees with almost everything; but is neutral regarding Proposal 4), @DarkDragonMedeus (Mod - Agrees with almost everything; but is neutral regarding the Tier 1 Matters with IB and WR)

Disagree: @XDragnoir (On At Least 8-B, Likely 8-A Upgrade; agrees with everything else, and is willing to compromise and agree on the lower tier character upgrade if it At Least 8-C, Possibly 8-B instead of At Least 8-B, Possibly 8-A.), @Doggo (On Upgrade for Low-Tiers, and for the 7-C Upgrade for Magicians - but is willing to let it pass if the 7-C Upgrade for Magicians has a Likely Rating attached to it and agrees with everything else; desires At least 9-A, Possibly 8-B)

Neutral:

 

[XDragnoir]

• Removal of High 7-A Ratings in Kamijou Touma, Misaka Mikoto, and Sogiita Gunha profiles

Yeah, sad but now they will be 7C instead of H7A.

Also, Touma's Dragons should have 7C dura as well, not sure why we didn't scale their dura to H7A before.

• Upgrade the abilities (and physical stats in the case of Gunha and Kakine's Second Key) Level Fives (Sogiita Gunha, Mugino Shizuri, Misaka Mikoto, Kakine Teitoku, and Accelerator [first two keys]) to 7-C (14.01 Kilotons) or 7-C+ (64.54 Kilotons)

Agreed, but i am still not sure if the 7C+ feat can really scale like that.

• Upgrade the Magic of Magic Users (too many to list) from 8-B to 7-C (10.04 Kilotons) | If this is not possible, just list Magic for Magic Users as Higher

Agreed.

• Upgrade the lower tier cast members from At Least 9-B, Likely 9-A to At Least 8-B, Possibly/Likely 8-A

Disagree, that's way too high for characters that are still treated as human throughout the whole series, we don't see anyone saying Touma has the firepower of a tank or something like that.

• The High 1-C ratings from Kihara Yuiitsu and Kamisato Kakeru should be removed as it isn't directly High 1-C in AP but can only affect upto High 1-C beings/attacks/etcetera under certain conditions due to the BFR hax in Kamisato's Right Hand.

Agreed.

• Touma's High 1-C AP rating should be removed, and replaced with durability negation.

Agreed.

• To anybody whose profile has a justification via them overpowering Imagine Breaker should be changed/reworded. Possibly downgraded if their justification relies entirely on the fact that they overpowered Imagine Breaker.

Agreed.

Not sure what to do about Mikoto's durability, however... Maybe 7-C with Railgun as well for simplicity's sake?

Sorry, what do you mean here?

Also, i plan to comment about the other parts later, but for now i will just post this.

 

[Excellence616]

Agreed

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Disagree, that's way too high for characters that are still treated as human throughout the whole series, we don't see anyone saying Touma has the firepower of a tank or something like that.

Calcs don't equal the author's intent - or more simply put, characters can have calculations that make characters stronger than what the author thinks they are. I.E, authors and mangakas don't account for Vs Forums stuff, basically. That, and there is more than enough calculations to at least put the idea of outliners off the table for now.

Sorry, what do you mean here?

Basically, I am referring to Mikoto's ability to use iron sand and nearby magnetic objects for defense under the umbrella of Mikoto's Esper ability that is named Railgun, as you know... Not sure if that is the correct course of action since that stuff isn't like Mugino's Meltdowner or Kakine's Dark Matter, which has durability that is tied to their AP, but don't know what else to do, atm.

Agreed, but i am still not sure if the 7C+ feat can really scale like that.

Am honestly not sure myself. At the very least, it does add some consistency.

Agreed

Noted.

 

[XDragnoir]

Calcs don't equal the author's intent - or more simply put, characters can have calculations that make characters stronger than what the author thinks they are. I.E, authors and mangakas don't account for Vs Forums stuff, basically. That, and there is more than enough calculations to at least put the idea of outliners off the table for now.

I know that, but 8B/8A is simply not consistent with what we see Touma and others who are currently at 9B/9A do most of the time, Touma wouldn't be damaged at all from most things if he was this much beyond a normal human.

And from what i have seen, two feats were done by Accelerator and left Awaki and Seike damaged, you can't scale them to it then (Seike wasn't badly damaged tho but the value was 8C anyway).

A few feats are for esper powers and shouldn't scale to base stats too so that's it, yeah overall i disagree with this upgrade.

Basically, I am referring to Mikoto's ability to use iron sand and nearby magnetic objects for defense under the umbrella of Mikoto's Esper ability that is named Railgun, as you know... Not sure if that is the correct course of action since that stuff isn't like Mugino's Meltdowner or Kakine's Dark Matter, which has durability that is tied to their AP, but don't know what else to do, atm.

Btw, when it comes to AP, i think all of Mikoto's powers should have "Up to X tier" attached to them, we know she doesn't use her max output at all times for her lightning/Railgun while the iron sand is completely different as it is related to how much she is using rather than having an output value.

Now back to the durability topic, her Durability with iron sand should scale to the same value her AP with it scales, which i think shouldn't be upgraded to the same tier her lightning is unless her iron sand gets a feat at that level.

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, did you ever try to calc Doppelganger Kaiju's AP? It's current tier has no calc and the actual value could help Mikoto's iron sand.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I know that, but 8B/8A is simply not consistent with what we see Touma and others who are currently at 9B/9A do most of the time, Touma wouldn't be damaged at all from most things if he was this much beyond a normal human.

And from what i have seen, two feats were done by Accelerator and left Awaki and Seike damaged, you can't scale them to it then (Seike wasn't badly damaged tho but the value was 8C anyway).

A few feats are for esper powers and shouldn't scale to base stats too so that's it, yeah overall i disagree with this upgrade.

True, but the whole normal human argument falls apart once you consider the fact that the self-proclaimed high school boy that is known as Touma Kamijou can let out a gosh darn speech after having his lower half blown away by a (now) MFTL+ Crossbow bolt (after dodging several other exotic MFTL+ crossbow bolts), and that a majority... no... all of the 9-B and 9-A calculations I did were done by a character who did them rather casually or in response to getting hit by a blow and didn't intentionally do them.

And again, I once again must parrot this: authors don't know or don't consider battleboarding stuff when they are writing. Even if they think they are writing "normal" human characters, they can, and will, knowingly or unknowingly have said characters perform feats that are utterly impossible for humans to do for the sake of the story.

And the value itself doesn't matter. Seike wasn't too injury by it, The other 8-C feat was done casually by Junko. The High 8-C Calc should matter, even if it was done by an Esper power, due to the user just surrounding himself (and his plus 1) with water and physically propelling themselves through two walls and then into a ship's wall. For the 8-B Awaki feat, she didn't die, sure, she needed to go to a hospital afterwards, but if she was a normal human, she would turn into mush. There are also the two Touma 8-Bs that were him withstanding 8-B tier attacks. The last 8-B feat is from that... paper golem girl... moving on from that. And the 8-A calc is just a feat of withstanding an 8-A attack.

Edit: I am not sure on how to say this but deciding to hold onto the idea that a character is a "normal human" and thus can't go beyond a certain 'tier' that is defined in this site would essentially mean to deny any and all feats and reset them back to the normal human levels of 10-A and 9-C in a manner of speaking since that train of logic is like plainly deciding to ignore feats and stick with a presubscribed notion that a series and its characters is limited to logic and reality despite everything that says otherwise.

Apologies, if I am speaking out of line, however.

Btw, when it comes to AP, i think all of Mikoto's powers should have "Up to X tier" attached to them, we know she doesn't use her max output at all times for her lightning/Railgun while the iron sand is completely different as it is related to how much she is using rather than having an output value.

Now back to the durability topic, her Durability with iron sand should scale to the same value her AP with it scales, which i think shouldn't be upgraded to the same tier her lightning is unless her iron sand gets a feat at that level.

Hm... Would a comprise of, [Tier Here] Physically, Varies from 8-A to 7-C with Railgun work? For both AP & Dura? Honestly, I have no idea on what to do here. But just think that it is dumb and arbitrary to seperate all of Mikoto's moves into different tiers, and in turn, cut her off from them in a verse match.

Also, did you ever try to calc Doppelganger Kaiju's AP? It's current tier has no calc and the actual value could help Mikoto's iron sand.

I think I did and got something that was around 8-C to High 8-C via its size, thus, I decided that it wasn't worth making a calc blog for it.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Also, I should say this in advance... apologies for the inconvenience on when I ramble on or if I write and/or say something that doesn't make sense. I am not the best at debates nor is English my first language, so I make (a lot of) mistakes when I have to type up a large reply, or have to reply to a lot of people at once.

 

[Aseka]

Agreed overall, neutral to 8-B/8-A calcs.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Agreed overall, neutral to 8-B/8-A calcs.

Noted. Hope to convince you on the idea in the future, Aseka!

 

[XDragnoir]

True, but the whole normal human argument falls apart once you consider the fact that the self-proclaimed high school boy that is known as Touma Kamijou can let out a gosh darn speech after having his lower half blown away by a (now) MFTL+ Crossbow bolt (after dodging several other exotic MFTL+ crossbow bolts), and that a majority... no... all of the 9-B and 9-A calculations I did were done by a character who did them rather casually or in response to getting hit by a blow and didn't intentionally do them.

I am not saying Touma is a normal human, normal humans aren't 9B to begin with, i am saying being as strong as actual esper powers such as Junko's and Naruha's is beyond what the narrative puts Touma at.

And the value itself doesn't matter. Seike wasn't too injury by it, The other 8-C feat was done casually by Junko.

Junko as a kid had feats comparable to what we see Touma doing, no way a much older Junko middle fight would be at the same level as Touma and other humans without super strength powers.

The High 8-C Calc should matter, even if it was done by an Esper power, due to the user just surrounding himself (and his plus 1) with water and physically propelling themselves through two walls and then into a ship's wall.

Man, why would it even scale to the physicals of the guy who did it? Is there any proof he needs to sustain the impact from the water colliding with the walls or anything like that? For real, absolutely nothing in the feat hints to it scaling to his physicals, much less to someone else.

For the 8-B Awaki feat, she didn't die, sure, she needed to go to a hospital afterwards, but if she was a normal human, she would turn into mush.

You know all that and still think she scales to it? Really? This is direct proof that she and the others shouldn't be this high.

There are also the two Touma 8-Bs that were him withstanding 8-B tier attacks.

The feat against Carissa he had to use IB to defend himself so there's no way we're scaling him to it, as for Accel's shockwave how much of it did Touma actually have to endure? Iirc he wasn't at ground zero.

The last 8-B feat is from that... paper golem girl... moving on from that.

Again, narratively speaking there is no way a level 3 esper using their power would be the tier that all powerless humans should scale.

And the 8-A calc is just a feat of withstanding an 8-A attack.

When we have seen a character get damage by 8C attacks and badly damaged by 8B attacks, the 8A feat (which is the only one in this tier afaik) should be an outlier

Hm... Would a comprise of, [Tier Here] Physically, Varies from 8-A to 7-C with Railgun work? For both AP & Dura? Honestly, I have no idea on what to do here. But just think that it is dumb and arbitrary to seperate all of Mikoto's moves into different tiers

No, Varies doesn't fit Mikoto, she should have "Up to" for all of her tiers, honestly i have no idea what's your problem with the way her profile works currently, her powers have different mechanics for all of them and different feats too, do you think her iron sand sword is 7C or something like that? Or do you scale her Railgun to her cloud creation?

and in turn, cut her off from them in a verse match.

Sorry, what do you mean by cut her off?

I think I did and got something that was around 8-C to High 8-C via its size, thus, I decided that it wasn't worth making a calc blog for it.

If you still have it, calc less profiles are a problem so it would be good to solve this one.

Also, I should say this in advance... apologies for the inconvenience on when I ramble on or if I write and/or say something that doesn't make sense. I am not the best at debates nor is English my first language, so I make (a lot of) mistakes when I have to type up a large reply, or have to reply to a lot of people at once.

No problems, English also isn't my first language

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So much.... Lol. I bought this upon myself, let's do this.

No problems, English also isn't my first language

First off, thank you!

If you still have it, calc less profiles are a problem so it would be good to solve this one.

Unfortunately, I trashed the thing a while. Made it around my first CRT, and figured it would probably just be easier to do it later when I got around to doing my profile revision I have been talking about for awhile.

Sorry, what do you mean by cut her off?

To explain this... Well, basically if Mikoto is ever in a verse match, and she is limited to her 8-A stuff, she can never use any of her lightning despite it being a major part of her attack moveset, for lack of a better word. If she is limited to her 7-C stuff, she can't use anything below that... not because it is locked but because it is useless and can't harm her opponent or defend against their attack due to the massive AP & Dura gap.

No, Varies doesn't fit Mikoto, she should have "Up to" for all of her tiers, honestly i have no idea what's your problem with the way her profile works currently, her powers have different mechanics for all of them and different feats too, do you think her iron sand sword is 7C or something like that? Or do you scale her Railgun to her cloud creation?

Yes, more or less. Her entire 8-A tiering is based entirely on her Railgun on when she was either younger and likely weaker than she is as of canon or when she might've purposefully lowered the output of her Railgun. There is no 8-A calc for her magnetism, her iron sand usage, nothing. Just those two calcs which have a reason in context for them being weaker than her 7-C rating.

The feat against Carissa he had to use IB to defend himself so there's no way we're scaling him to it, as for Accel's shockwave how much of it did Touma actually have to endure? Iirc he wasn't at ground zero.

Will you give that about the Carissa thing. However, for the thing that came from the second round with Accelerator I won't. Both Touma and Accelerator were at the literal ground zero of the event, in both the novel and in the anime, so there is no reason to assume that Touma didn't endure all of the shockwave's force. I intensely studied this scene in particular to make sure that this was the case.

You know all that and still think she scales to it? Really? This is direct proof that she and the others shouldn't be this high.

On this topic, I... actually started look into it... And I don't actually think Awaki was damaged to badly. Here. From Volume 8 of the Index OT LN.

Musujime, who had given up on the calculations, immediately used the luggage bag as a shield. However, this negligible defense was broken to pieces instantly once Accelerator’s iron fist slammed it. The exterior of the luggage bag was smashed to pieces, the middle layer that was meant to endure impact was flying all over the place, and the ‘content’ that was tightly sealed became numerous parts and pieces, flying all around from Musujime’s hands like sakura petals.

“I'M SORRY, FROM HERE ON NOW, THE PATH IS ONLY A "ONE-WAY ROAD"(Note: In Kanji, Accelerator is written as Ippō Tsūkō, ‘One-Way Road’)!!”

The esper curled his lips and smiled,

“YOU CAN'T ADVANCE, JUST HIDE BEHIND YOUR TAIL AND CRY YOUR WAY HOME!”

Musujime’s throat released a weird sound.

The hard fist pierced through the luggage bag at a terrifying speed and smashed her face.

BAM!!

Musujime Awaki’s body was sent flying away diagonally to an even higher place, landing on a safety metal net on the edge of the roof of a building. The numerous pillars supporting the metal net were uprooted, as Musujime’s body was like a soccer ball that hit the back of the net, unable to move forward anymore.

Accelerator, who had released all the force from his body, didn’t do anything. Due to the effect of gravity, he started to fall down to the ground covered in darkness.

But his eyes weren’t looking at the ground.

As he descended, he slowly looked up at Musujime, who had slammed into the roof, muttering,

“With this pitiful state of mine, maybe I might not have the right to be called the strongest in Academy City.”

He silently narrowed his eyes.

“However, I’ve already made up my mind. I’ll always be the strongest in front of that brat, damn it!!”

These words echoed throughout the night wind as nobody listened to it. Accelerator continued to descend toward the ground.

It doesn't say that Awaki was badly hurt by this. Just implied that she was incapacitated and couldn't fight and/or escape anymore due to getting punched in the face.

Then there this moment from Volume 2 of the Index NT LN.

“Oh, you’re the guy who called the ambulance during the Remnant incident, aren’t you?” said Musujime Awaki who she once had a confrontation with and had fair-sized breasts.

It says Touma called an ambulance for her to get her to a hospital. We know that she was trapped in a high place without a way to get down as she was either too shell-shocked to do so, her complex regarding teleporting herself, or literally knocked out. We also know that she made a fairly fast recovery - in fact, a lot of her injuries that were treated at the hospital could've come from her fight with Kuroko - due to her being able to fight during the time of Index OT SS1, and the fact that she showed up in the Railgun manga... and honestly did the creepiest thing in fiction I have seen in a long time with that precog boy.

... Gah. Japan and their weirdness. Let's just not think about that part in Railgun again. Just acknowledged that she was in decent condition at the time, and prior to that moment, she moved in with Komoe at an unknown timeframe.

Junko as a kid had feats comparable to what we see Touma doing, no way a much older Junko middle fight would be at the same level as Touma and other humans without super strength powers.

Again, Junko's own 8-C feat was a fairly casual one and one that she did in order to disable Iruka's equipment. It also doesn't help that she doesn't have much fights in her own manga - she literally only fights Iruka and Arei (and Gunha, but it wasn't serious), and both times it was more or less stated that she wasn't fighting at full-power, and once she actually did so, she overpowered and blitz Arei and was only knocked out due to her full power's strain and everything else that had happened to her.

When we have seen a character get damage by 8C attacks and badly damaged by 8B attacks, the 8A feat (which is the only one in this tier afaik) should be an outlier

Two 8-A feats, actually. Already said my piece regarding Touma and Awaki, and how I believe that they weren't too injuried by said 8-B attacks.

Man, why would it even scale to the physicals of the guy who did it? Is there any proof he needs to sustain the impact from the water colliding with the walls or anything like that? For real, absolutely nothing in the feat hints to it scaling to his physicals, much less to someone else.

It is still colliding with walls, Noir. That is a physical feat of flying away from somebody strong and having to slam through walls to get away from them, nothing more nothing less. It was also a literal face-first impact. Can't say much else.

I am not saying Touma is a normal human, normal humans aren't 9B to begin with, i am saying being as strong as actual esper powers such as Junko's and Naruha's is beyond what the narrative puts Touma at.

Again, narratively speaking there is no way a level 3 esper using their power would be the tier that all powerless humans should scale.

And Naruha - I honestly forgot her name, thanks for reminding me - is in the same boat as Junko in where she did her 8-B extremely casually - but instead of Junko's case where she was holding back for various reason, Naruha did her 8-B feat to show-off her strength in front of everybody, for lack of a better way to explain it. Which should give her, and people at a similiar level like Junko, a likely Far Higher rating to whatever rating they end up getting.

---

Man, this is much harder than I thought. Other verses just need one or two calcs, and everybody can scale to it with no issue. Moi, I chose this for myself, so I can't complain.

Could remove the 8-A thing entirely. And replace it with say... At Least 8-C, Likely/Possibly 8-B.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I believe that there is enough proof for a At Least 8-C, Likely 8-B Rating for Touma and Awaki-tier people and that people like Naruha (and Junko) could get Flat-Out 8-B Ratings, Far Higher attached to them - the former got injured during their 8-B calculations but there is still the possibility of scaling to them, while the latter could casually do their 8-B Feats and have them listed at a far higher number than the latter's 8-B feats while also very close to the threshold of 8-B+.

 

[Aseka]

Could remove the 8-A thing entirely. And replace it with say... At Least 8-C, Likely/Possibly 8-B.

It's also fine, tho. At least.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

It's also fine, tho. At least.

So you are okay with At Least 8-C, Likely/Possibly 8-B? Or the other one?

 

[Aseka]

So you are okay with At Least 8-C, Likely/Possibly 8-B?

Yeah

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yeah

Added you to the agree pile, if you don't mind. Added that you were fine/agreed with At Least 8-C, Likely 8-B.

 

[Doggo]

agree with anything but not the 7-C upgrade for magicians

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

agree with anything but not the 7-C upgrade for magicians

To get a bit of a more in-depth answer, are you fine with Magicians just getting a higher rating for their Magic instead of a 7-C Upgrade? Additionally, you are fine with everything else?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Need to know your answer before I add ya to the vote counter.

 

[Doggo]

To get a bit of a more in-depth answer, are you fine with Magicians just getting a higher rating for their Magic instead of a 7-C Upgrade? Additionally, you are fine with everything else?

Im fine with 7-C as long as its "likely town level" rather than outright 7-C

 

[Doggo]

not fine with upgrading characters like touma to city block tho

 

[Churronzon]

How would Kihara Amata fit into this considering he is stated(in his profile) to be superior to Kamijou Touma in strength and fighting skill? There might be other characters with similar scaling.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Im fine with 7-C as long as its "likely town level" rather than outright 7-C

not fine with upgrading characters like touma to city block tho

Noted. May I ask on why you are not fine with upgrading characters to city block level, tho.

How would Kihara Amata fit into this considering he is stated(in his profile) to be superior to Kamijou Touma in strength and fighting skill? There might be other characters with similar scaling.

Where did this come from, tho? Could it be that since Kihara actually has some form of training, practices martial arts, and is willing to train, he has been considered stronger than Touma? Just seem very weird and makes me wonder where this train of thought came from.

 

[Doggo]

same reasons as XDragnoir

 

[Churronzon]

Where did this come from, tho? Could it be that since Kihara actually has some form of training, practices martial arts, and is willing to train, he has been considered stronger than Touma? Just seem very weird and makes me wonder where this train of thought came from.

Just something people agreed on I guess. Amata aside for a moment, what about Tsuchimikado and Hamazura(in NT12)? Would these be considered outliers or are they getting bumped up too?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

same reasons as XDragnoir

Ah, got'cha. Welp, let me try this argument... There is one recurring theme for my two MJ Wall level calculations and my two Small Building level calc - that is also following through all the way up to the High 8-C calc - which is... none of the feat performers put much effort into performing said feats and those in the receiving end weren't harmed by said attacks that much.

First 9-B feat was a BoS feat and done after Kuroko was being beaten for an untold timeframe, the second 9-B feat was done by Agnese repeatedly striking surfaces with her rod and to create invisible attacks that Touma could tank, first 9-A feat was Arei just using a nearby tree to stop her flight after getting headbutted by Junko, second 9-A feat was just Mami casually kicking a person through a thick wall, first 8-C was casually done by Junko to slam a water tank into the room and flood it in order to disable Iruka's equipment, second 8-C feat was of Seike getting slammed into a trunk by Accelerator and received no apparent injuries but Accelerator decided to screw with him via messing with his bio-electricity to knock him out cold, and the High 8-C feat was an unintentional and casual wall-busting feat.

8-B is where the lower-tier has to put effort into enduring when they are i the receiving end. And even then, they aren't too badly injuried or crippled by them. The 8-A feats, after I looked at them, are where the lower tier characters start suffering from notable damage and injuries, but there is still a thing called downscaling, but I digress

Just something people agreed on I guess. Amata aside for a moment, what about Tsuchimikado and Hamazura(in NT12)? Would these be considered outliers or are they getting bumped up too?

Oh. For NT12 Hamazura... Didn't he have the help of the Power Lifter, his weird luck, and the fact that Touma was suffering from intense PTSD from thinking St.Germain was a 'Magic God' so wasn't in the best mental state to fight either? As for Tsuchimikado, well... Touma wasn't in prime condition at all when they fought. He didn't have much sleep (as he was trying to make sure that his parents wouldn't do the deed during Angel Fall), had just been almost poisoned yesterday, experienced a terrifying encounter with that serial killer, had to deal with the idea of his father causing Angel Fall for awhile and had unwittingly made himself smell chloroform - all before he fought with Tsuchimikado, while also having to deal with the pressure of Tsuchimikado going to kill his dad to save the day; even then, Tsuchimikado didn't physically overpower him in the traditional sense...

"You can't even last three seconds?"

Looking down at Kamijou, Tsuchimikado sneered.

That was the difference between Kamijou and Tsuchimikado.

Even though an expert may slip up and reveal an opening when fighting against an amateur, the difference in ability between an expert and an amateur wouldn't change because of a little slip up.

An ace pitcher of a pee-wee club wouldn't become a real professional opponent.

The main fighter of a judo club in middle school wouldn't be able to beat an Olympic gold medalist.

"...uu, ahh...tsu!!"

Kamijou frantically tried to get even.

Even though he could barely move his fingers, he was still trying to stand up.

"It's useless, Kami-yan. Because of how the human body is constructed, there are some parts that can't be strengthened no matter how much training you make. For more information, please read the Kaitai Shinsho."

In other words, those were vital spots.

"Kami-yan, AIDS can't be healed through willpower, the Ebola virus won't be healed through patience, everyone knows that, right? It's the same logic, right now, you can't stand up, it's not a mental issue but an anatomical issue."

Cheap blows.

Even though numerous people in the past had confirmed its effectiveness, their destructiveness was so powerful that most people abstained from using them out of consciousness. However, these had become Tsuchimikado Motoharu's favorite weapons.

Even if he was criticized as being despicable and dirty, Tsuchimikado wouldn't even frown.

• To Aru Majutsu no Index OT Volume 4

He, more or less, pressure point'ed Touma in less than three seconds, i.e, used "durability-negating moves", so to speak... even if afterwards, Touma got up and fought Tsuchimikado again for ten seconds which he was impressed with Touma for doing.

 

[Churronzon]

Oh. For NT12 Hamazura... Didn't he have the help of the Power Lifter, his weird luck, and the fact that Touma was suffering from intense PTSD from thinking St.Germain so wasn't in the best mental state to fight either? As for Tsuchimikado, well... Touma wasn't in prime condition at all when they fought. He didn't have much sleep (as he was trying to make sure that his parents wouldn't do the deed during Angel Fall), had just been almost poisoned yesterday, experienced a terrifying encounter with that serial killer, had to deal with the idea of his father causing Angel Fall for awhile and had unwittingly made himself smell chloroform - all before he fought with Tsuchimikado, while also having to deal with the pressure of Tsuchimikado going to kill his dad to save the day; even then, Tsuchimikado didn't physically overpower him in the traditional sense, he pressure point'ed Touma.

Ah, thanks for the correction. I shoulda rechecked it myself.

 

[Churronzon]

I disagree with removing Touma's High 1-C tiering and am neutral towards Kamisato's, although my opinions could change as I think it over more.
In Touma's case, it's because he causes destruction on top of the power null.

“Imagine Breaker has wandered the edges of history as a reference point for the world. It
has existed in a variety of forms: people, objects, places, and buildings. But why does it
break? If it merely pointed to an uncorrupted world, it would have a number of different
reactions, such as deflecting, diverting, and slipping through. And yet it chooses to destroy
the supernatural things it cannot accept. That is my point here. In its natural state, the
world bares its fangs against all things. If the conditions are right, death is the natural fate
for all people and creatures. That which cannot be broken down must be rewritten into
that which can, even if that means smashing it to pieces. That is the perfectly natural cycle
you find in this world.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 2 Part 4

I'm fine with removing Kamisato's tiering so long as we add in a resistance to power null.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Will take that into consideration, Churronzon.

 

[XDragnoir]

I disagree with removing Touma's High 1-C tiering and am neutral towards Kamisato's, although my opinions could change as I think it over more.
In Touma's case, it's because he causes destruction on top of the power null.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 2 Part 4

I'm fine with removing Kamisato's tiering so long as we add in a resistance to power null.

The destruction it is talking about here is it's power null.

Like, for real guys, unless y'all think IB can PUNCH and actually do DAMAGE comparable to Gungnir and Flaming Sword then he shouldn't have H1C AP.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

The destruction it is talking about here is it's power null.

Like, for real guys, unless y'all think IB can PUNCH and actually do DAMAGE comparable to Gungnir and Flaming Sword then he shouldn't have H1C AP.

Ye, let's talk about the topic of IB not something that deserves to have High 1-C AP before moving onto the other subjects for this CRT... as it is something that I am in complete agreement on with Noir. I would like to repeat that Imagine Breaker's offensive showcasing fits more along the lines of Durability Negation more than anything else, ngl... Also, Zon, anybody, know why World Rejector would have Power Null Resistance? Like World Rejector bypassing Imagine Breaker was due to it 'essentially' being the same type of thing it was, right?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

... Honestly, I have to bring the topic up... Does IB even deserve to have High 1-C durability? Like IB isn't traditionally following the meaning of durability when facing those High 1-C attacks, it is just negating the shiz out of 'em.

 

[XDragnoir]

... Honestly, I have to bring the topic up... Does IB even deserve to have High 1-C durability? Like IB isn't traditionally following the meaning of durability when facing those High 1-C attacks, it is just negating the shiz out of 'em.

Ehhhh

IMO, it shouldn't have it, but people are already against removing it from AP, while Durability is somewhat valid and there are arguments for it.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Same, same. I honestly just want to remove the High 1-C tiers from Touma entirely. And just add a note on his - and the World Rejector users - that they can affect High 1-C shiz. Want to hear more from others regarding this topic, tho. Removing the High 1-C ratings from the three before moving on since it is essentially the most "important" topic in this CRT, for lack of a better way to explain it.

 

[Churronzon]

Now that I think about it, would Coronzon have died if Touma punched her while soul-ripped or would she get sent back to the Abyss?

Kamijou Touma’s right arm was forcibly severed at the shoulder and flew through the air.
Even if it functioned as a reference point for the world, it could not be converted into a
destructive power once it was removed from his body. It could not punch Coronzon in the
face anymore.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 4 Part 21

Edit: I recall Touma warning Coronzon to get away from his fish eggs attack, so I doubt he would use IB to kill her.

Magic was a technique of distorting the world’s causality for your own purposes. Its sparks
and spray would eventually find their way back to influence the magic user in unexpected
ways. An action taken to achieve a certain goal could end up crushing that very some goal
in some hidden way.

In this case, that was seen when something burst from Kamijou Touma’s right shoulder
with an unpleasant noise.

It was like dark red fish eggs. But that collection of perfectly triangular surfaces seemed
to symbolize the artificial. Those artificial objects were like the polygons in a video game.

They came in all sizes, they were connected together, and they moved like a single giant
arm.

There was no pain.

This was what he had worked so hard to restrain. It was...

“Wha—?”

There was a deafening straining sound. It did not just come from the shoulder where the
arm had been. Kamijou Touma’s entire body gave off a great din that never should have
come from a human. The control had shifted. Instead of the boy controlling his right
hand’s power, the hidden power now raced throughout the boy’s entire body.
What was going through his head as his body moved against his will?

Or was he capable of taking an objective view of the situation?

“No...it’s going to come out... You have...someone to rely on, don’t you? Then go ask for
their help, Coronzon!!!!!!”

What followed was a sticky sound like bursting bubbles.

The objects that resembled giant fish eggs made from triangular surfaces burst within as
something else made an appearance. But this was not just one thing. That swarm was
clearly larger than the boy’s own body. The boy was not controlling the power; he was
hanging from the power. That was the symbolism here.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 4 Part 21

Can someone remind me what exactly happened to Archangel Gabriel. Were they only sent back to heaven without being destroyed or is it unknown?

Also, Zon, anybody, know why World Rejector would have Power Null Resistance?

Idk what other reason there is for why World Rejecter doesn't get power nulled. If it's straight up a stronger smurf hax that can overpower the other, then we might as well tier them.

 

[Aseka]

Can someone remind me what exactly happened to Archangel Gabriel. Were they only sent back to heaven without being destroyed or is it unknown?

Iirc sent back to Heaven

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Honestly, I would go with Coronzon just getting sent back to the Abyss based on what happened with Gabriel.

 

[Churronzon]

Like World Rejector bypassing Imagine Breaker was due to it 'essentially' being the same type of thing it was, right?

Was this ever stated to be the reason?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I have no idea. But... It makes the most sense. Imagine Breaker and World Rejector are the same type of power that came from the same source - the end result of their abilities are different, but both of those hands are still the hopes and dreams of magicians of returning to the original world/going to a new world. Imagine Breaker being able to negate World Rejector would essentially mean that it could negate itself. Am talking about out of my bum, tho. So take what I say with a grain of salt.