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The Ultimate Question: Is Goku stronger than Beerus now?!

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Whis says perhaps he has surpassed it. Right now we can only say that Jiren is comparable in power to a god of destruction.


Goku only got 3 hits on Jiren while going all out in his most powerful form and Jiren was unphased and neutralized Goku afterwards. How does this mean Goku can beat Beerus if he can't even damage someone with comparable power to a god of destruction while going all out?


God's are annoyed by the fact that a mortal has a power that isn't easy for them to attain, the angels are surprised that a mortal has this power which they supposedly have. This doesn't mean Goku can now beat them. Also, saying a god can't defeat Jiren doesn't mean Jiren would defeat said god or else it wouldn't happened by now.
 
I think that even in Kaioken x20 that Beerus would likely still beat Goku. (Well now definitely since High 3-A)

However, the Mastery of Self-Movement is something Beerus has not mastered how to do. That definitely puts Goku on a higher level, regardless of, "wank," or any other assumed investments.
 
Whis says he's the mortal who surpassed a god simply judging off a far more casual Jiren.

Belmond himself is hyping Jiren up and at one point even says, that what Goku is doing wpuld even have himself worried but for Jiren? Its nothing, he puts Jiren above himself every chance he gets.

Don't forget that Goku can blitz the shit outta Beerus too going by feats. (seemingly Blitzing every Kai, god, Dyspo (someone champa couldn't see, note Goku later casually grabs him and throws him mid attack) and Toppo as his first action, only jiren reacted)

Goku is stronger than Beerus in this form, its so obvious, its basically said straight to you. Also note, the narrator says the gods fear, not impressed, bothered by, but fear.
 
I can assure you Jiren would ragdoll Belmond casually if casual as shit Jiren is god tier as stated by Whis and has less trouble than something Belmond would be worried about.
 
With Goku's current control/limitations with this new state, as of Episode 110 (as in, he doesn't have true mastery over the state, since he ran out of time pretty quickly), I'm gonna call it inconclusive. We just don't know enough of where Jiren and Beerus are in the list. Goku is powerful, no doubt, but I don't think we can unequivocally answer the question this very moment. That and even in UI, he only got a couple of real good shots in on Jiren, who, as confirmed by Whis, is at least mid-GoD power, and very likely higher. Yeah, the narrator said that UI is a state that even gods fear, but fear how? It's power, capability, or the fact that a mortal could achieve something only the angels really have naturally, and that even GoDs can't use it easily, if at all. Again, my vote would be inconclusive.
 
Goku blitz Beerus, Dyspo was so fast that champa couldn't see him and even he couldn't react to Goku's kick, whis also stated even beerus couldn't perfect that form Goku used to fight jiren

Still this shouldn't be added to their page tbh
 
This ^. Beerus currently gets blitzed beyond belief. Normal SSG Goku could treat Dyspo like a kid, then there's SSB KKx20 which is MASSIVELY inferior to UI Goku, who's already evolved a decent amount since fighting Jiren.

Beerus gets a spanking.
 
Jiren is not God level he is above it, even his page in the official site now update and say his power is above them not equal, also jiren wasn't trying and whis already said he is gods level and may even surpass them, the clown god said the SB had him worried but its piece of cake for jiren and even said there no being who can compare to jiren

All this implies jiren is far above the clown god and the clown god beat beerus in arm wrestling match so he above him in raw power and beerus can't master the UI that Goku pulled this episode and he was in utter shock when goku could do it

Casual jiren = above gods and Goku was getting the edge on him before he ran out of time

So saying Goku can't beat Beerus because he couldn't beat jiren yet isn't argument at all

Goku take this 100%, the only way beerus would win is if he can hold his own until UI times run out which is unlikely
 
>casual Jiren' s eyes flash red, decks ssbx20 Goku several times in an instant. No one managed to see him do anything.

>Goku lunges at jiren, his eyes flash red. Except this time Goku can have an entire exchange of fists with him and can see jirens strikes.

Then there's the fact he can dodge toppo's justice flash by walking, and the first thing he did was in a single step, cover like a few hundred to thousand of feet and throws kick, Toppo and Dyspo couldnt see him move, only jiren, and considering it panned to most of the gods in shock, they couldn't see it either.
 
Yes if you pauze that moment with his first kick you can see that only Whis could follow him (putting his hand on his mouth like wtf)
 
God the wank is ridiculous. Can't wait till the next fight so toei shows goku hasn't mastered ultra instinct and can only use it for a while. Then goku fights beerus and beerus still beats him.
 
You need to stop.

If anyone is wanking anything it's you wanking Beerus.

We have statements from Whis, Belmond, and the narrator that Jiren is above the gods while heavily suppressed.
 
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No you don't know dragon ball enough if you actually think that Goku is going to spank, or speed blitz Beerus. No, Whis only stated that it's possible for jiren to be above the gods.
This isn't the first time dragon ball fanboys thought a character was a certain power level just to be proven wrong later on. Same with the FTL fighters bs.
 
Whis straight up, explicitly said that Jiren, while being hilariously casual is on par if not above the gids, he dudnt say he may be comparable, no he saud he straight up is and thst he may be above them.

Then Whis a minute later sats hey, thst Jiren dude ain't even trying in the slightest. So suppressed Jiren=Gods already, then add the fact that Belmond, a Gid think noe one can beat Jiren and puts Jiren far above himself.

Or the narrator saying the gods (plural, all of them) fear Goku.


And funny you say that, now that we have like 15 MFTL+ feats in dragon ball.
 
Well, knowing Dragon Ball, yeah, you're right, Beerus will probably still be stronger, but we can't say Beerus would win because "he'll probably still be stronger in the next episode", that episode isn't out yet, so it doesn't matter, and everything we have right now is pointing to Goku being superior to Beerus, so, he is superior until proven wrong.
 
If Goku can MASTER this power (Which, he will, it's inevitable), then yes, Goku will win.


But, Beerus also has this power. He's just FAR from Mastering it. However, that doesn't mean he's better than Goku by a million. Judging by what happened, Goku seemed to have handled that power really well, even if that took away the rest of his Stamina. Once Goku gets used to it, and once he's capable of fighting again (Which will be the case in a few episodes), Goku will likely surpass Beerus.


But, as of now, since Goku hasn't yet mastered it, Goku is likely CLOSE to Beerus' Level, but just not there yet. Besides, we've yet to see the full thing. Remember, all of the Art showed Goku with a red Aura, and shit added on his new-found power. Also, his shirt was destroyed. It is possible that this will take place during Goku's second battle with Jiren (AKA, the Final Fight of the Tournament).


It's not over yet.
 
Oh that figures. http://readms.net/r/dragon_ball_super/028/4587/37 , Beerus is equal or greater to Goku in terms of that ability. I mean he was fighting all the other gods which presumably would be much more of a burden than Toppo, Jiren, and Jispo in terms of power, speed and agility altogether.

I agree that EOZ or (End of Super) Goku would certainly be above the gods.
 
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In reality goku won't surpass beerus, he'll just keep getting more powerful. Fans here don't understand that toriyama wants a hard barrier set for goku.
Also, beerus has ultra instruct too and most likely knows how to use it better than goku
 
What? No he doesnt.


He most defintly doesn't know how to use it better than Goku.

Whis, even Beerus himself makes that obvious.

Whis even says Goku is doing something even Beerus can't at one point.
 
Wasn't it even mentioned that Beerus was barely learning that during Fukkatsu no F? Also considering everyone's reactions, Goku truly did something even gods cant achieve. All gods were in awe, as if he did the impossible. Beerus himself was at a loss of words. If it was something easy to pull off and everyone had it, I doubt they'd react like that.
 
Goku literally hit state all the gods fear and beerus cant tap into it, goku was above beerus in that form no way around it, he was only limited because he didnt had enough stamina left
 
Okay, first off, everyone is jumping to the conclusion that UI goku is above gods.

First, why would the gods suddenly fear Goku after they learned that he was using UI? Maybe because he is stronger than them? Then they'd be scared from the very moment goku rised in that pillar of light.

Then, assuming that Goku isnt stronger than the GoDs (yet), why would they fear UI? Maybe because is something they cannot do? And it isnt raw power dependant, its a technique. Everyone freaked out when Beerus said UI.

Next one, the only one stated to be superior to the gods is jiren. Stated by belmod (who probably knows his full potential) and by whis (who only said that perhaps he would surpass the gods, but given Jiren was casual at the moment, there is not doubt that full power jiren is > gods).
 
Jiren is, stated by Whis, to be comparable and possibly above the gods, in his casual state.


Also Belmond said the spirit bomb and and ssbx20 would worry him, but for Jiren? Its nothing, even in this state of being casual.

Goku then proceeded to make Jiren use more effort than either those and at the end caused him to briefly power up.
 
PaChi2 said:
Okay, first off, everyone is jumping to the conclusion that UI goku is above gods.
First, why would the gods suddenly fear Goku after they learned that he was using UI? Maybe because he is stronger than them? Then they'd be scared from the very moment goku rised in that pillar of light.

Then, assuming that Goku isnt stronger than the GoDs (yet), why would they fear UI? Maybe because is something they cannot do? And it isnt raw power dependant, its a technique. Everyone freaked out when Beerus said UI.

Next one, the only one stated to be superior to the gods is jiren. Stated by belmod (who probably knows his full potential) and by whis (who only said that perhaps he would surpass the gods, but given Jiren was casual at the moment, there is not doubt that full power jiren is > gods).
Click to expand...
Funny thing is Gods were scared by Goku not jiren despite matching him equally, still Goku is above gods because of whise statement and gods were scared after they knew exactly what goku is using
 
Probably Goku UI would beat the GoDs because of speed and technique. But still I dont see him having an AP advantage. Being on par with casual jiren isnt still proof of being > gods, being on par with Full power jiren, is.
 
Well, then, above casual jiren. Which goku hasnt proved because the moment Jiren powered up once, it was gg. Probably the next time he becomes UI, tho.
 
Jiren was putting more effort to his fight and was on par with him according to several characters the clown god is on top of them and Goku only lost because his time ran out not because jiren stomped him
 
Not so sure, he's at least equal to casual Jiren since the whole red flash thing and breaking through his guard and getting that knee in.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Not so sure, he's at least equal to casual Jiren since the whole red flash thing and breaking through his guard and getting that knee in.
Click to expand...
Funny how that knee and the later energy wave didnt even scratch jiren, lol
 
I don't why the arguing, putting jiren aside Goku could reach status that beerus couldn't achieve according to whise himself
 
After, it still broke through his guard and caused him to flinch. He needed to power up for a reason. It wasn't just to show off.

They could of saved that for hit or the big fight.
 
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