The Owl House: Massive Verse Revision (High 6-A for Titan Luz, Titan Belos, 3-C rating for The Collector, Speed of Light for light spell, etc.)

[StoneKillerz12]

Howdy! Some of you reading probably remember me from a few weeks ago from that Kingdom Hearts True KH scaling CRT which I said I was going to follow up on eventually and built hype around. (Trust me, that’s coming very soon and will be much bigger than this. But for now I wanted to address another verse which I feel is in desperate need of being updated). This time it's…The Owl House, a verse that seems to be criminally underrated on this wiki. Not just in terms of stats, but more so how it’s treated in comparison to other cartoon verses which are centered around narratives. It doesn’t really get the same treatment and hype verses like Gravity Falls, Star VS. The Forces of Evil, and even Amphibia get on their profiles despite The Owl House also being an incredible series just as good as those. I do, however, think that we have neglected to update the verse in terms of stats as well ever since perhaps the first half of Season 2 for the series, as all we’ve seemed to do since then was add some keys, quotes, and images from Season 3 and nothing really else. Season 3 provides a ton of blatant buffs for the verses, and there are also many other feats, scaling, and mechanics in verse which have yet to be properly indexed here. So without further ado, I’d like to properly settle the score with these feats and finally get The Owl House to where I believe it rightfully deserves.

Key Additions + Minor Housekeeping​

To begin with, Luz should be split into separate season keys. Season 1, Season 2-3, and of course still Titan Luz. These would be for the same reasons we have Anne Boonchuy separated by the same keys, or Steven Universe, etc etc. To be more specific to Luz, her magic throughout the series progressively becomes stronger and stronger and post-Season 1 is clearly a far wider margin from Season 1. The 8-B and 7-C feats we accept already both come from Season 2 exclusively, and we know that Luz, as well as other characters in the verse, draw the strength of their magic from the heart as well as the powers of The Titan. Exclusively the latter in Luz’s case, but we see as her connection with The Titan grows, her power grows greater. For the Season 1 key, Luz should be granted “at most 7-C” rather than a definitive 7-C rating, due to the fact Lilith was nonchalant and restrained while “dueling” her and Luz is clearly not on her level. But downscaling would be fine as Luz was able to somewhat match Lilith’s magic blasts.

Likewise, Emperor Belos should be given a “Possessing The Titan” key. Again, this would be for similar reasons as to why we have a Dyoplosaurus Armor key for King Andrias. Also, it’d just be ******* awesome and it’s what a lot of people like to use him for in general matches, lol. Honestly don’t have much more beyond that, but with what I’ll be getting into later on, a “possessing the titan” key for Belos should be made simply just to clarify much of the High 6-A scaling I’m about to propose. Similarly, I propose for The Titan (A.K.A King’s dad) to be given a profile too. He is present throughout the entirety of the Owl House and has enough lore around him to be given a proper AP rating and explanation.

Outside of that, for now, most of the verse will remain at 7-C, however, I propose for the 8-B feat from Gus burning a tunnel into a wall should be removed from profiles and instead just remain as a supporting calculation for the verse on its page. It should still be used for reasoning, but not as a part of the actual tier. The 8-B feat has no significance beyond just a supporting feat for the verse, nor does it act as a “baseline” for Glyph’s magical power, which we know is clearly far lower. Instead, the characters should be given “Varies, up to 7-C with magic”. This is, again, due to the fact that magic comes from the heart and is explicitly variable in power depending on both what the user wants to summon as well as their connection to the Titan and/or the magic in their heart. This has rendered many witches just straight up unable to cast magic without aid in the past, or has made their attacks visibly far stronger than they normally are.

Besides that, all of the rest of the verse will remain the same except for what will be listed below. Let’s begin.

Speed of Light upgrade for Light Spell/Glyph and possibly Relativistic to FTL reactionary/combat speed reaction for the verse​

While the light spell's actual attack applications contradict light-speed properties, the summoning/casting of the spell itself has no such contradictions and should clearly be light-speed. Here are multiple examples of this:

• The Light Spell expands out and burns in a flash of actual light that blinds like a flashbang
• The Light Spell casts shadows
  • Luz uses the light glyph to cast a shadow on the wall of a cave to stage a fake battle for Hunter.
• The Light Spell when summoned immediately illuminates darkened rooms, caves, etc.
• The Titan’s Magic, which correlates directly with the glyph magic in The Owl House as “its language”, illuminated the stars for Luz to see a light glyph constellation. This implies that light magic illuminates stars, which are lightened up clearly by actual light. We can also fully attribute this to Papa Titan (This should also be a contributor for High 6-A for Titan Luz, Titan Belos, and King, will again be addressed later on)
• The Light Glyph is used in the Invisibility glyph combo, consistent with how photons project color, light, and make things…y’know, visible.
• Luz’s journal regarding her journey learning about Glyphs, which Belos acknowledges as impressive and thus reliable, describes the light glyph as having “color”, and “reflection”. It does however state it has “power”, which implies force, meaning this could potentially be a detriment in regards to the light spell being fully light-speed, which will be addressed shortly below.
• The elements in The Owl House reflect the real world elements identically, having the exact same art and animation-style, including the light spell. Camera flashes expand out in a light flash identical in portrayal to the Light Spell’s flash of light. The glyphs also are discovered by their corresponding element in nature and is how it works.
  • Despite being weaker and less powerful than her normal light glyphs, the casting of her light glyph’s flash does not differentiate despite the light ball doing so, which is consistent with light-speed not changing in real life.

All of this undeniably proves that the light glyph's initial summon and “expansion” of sorts, when utilized in a sort of “flashbang” sense, is clearly light-speed. This would apply to attack speed too since Luz uses this blinding light spell to…well, blind opponents. This should undoubtedly be enough to justify the addition of a “Speed of Light with light glyph casting”. You may have noticed, which I’ve briefly touched upon above, the attacks, blasts, and constructs created from both Luz’s light glyph and other witches’ light magic, clearly possess force and thus cannot be light-speed. The movement of Luz’s light balls also clearly do not move at the speed of light. Nearly all of the reactionary feats when it comes to light glyph reaction speed is in relation to the force-filled blasts themselves and not the actual flash.

However, there are a few feats which debatably can be inferred as dodging or moving in tandem with the flash of light itself which would qualify for a Relativistic to FTL reactionary and combat speed rating for characters in the verse:

• Lilith raises her staff while Luz summons the light glyph, in a way that looks similar enough to the “flashbang” explanation mentioned above. Once it clashes with Lilith’s own magic, though, it clearly is applying its attack force and not the light-speed flash itself. Lilith, though, put her staff up before the flash hit her, thus moving it to protect her face before the light flash could reach her. This got 301,465,109.571 m/s, or 1.0055 c (Slightly above baseline FTL)
• Harpy Eda is able to move at a comparable/faster rate to Luz’s light glyph cast (which clearly and undeniably moves in the light-speed styled flash, this very example is listed in one of the links above). This gets anywhere from 71,650,397.5046 to 1,157,198,888.57 m/s, or 0.239 to 3.86 c (Relativistic to FTL).

The validity of these feats is something I admittedly cannot verify for certain. I personally think these feats are perfectly usable and have no real problems that make it any different from any other light dodging feat we have. I’ll let the comments be the judge on these, though. There is, however, another feat which doesn’t involve light-dodging at all which sort of backs this up as being consistent. That is what we will go into next:

3-C upgrade for The Collector with At least FTL speed upgrade​

Note: We cannot scale anyone in the verse, including Titan Luz or the Titan himself to the Collector. While the Collector stated that fully grown titans are “stronger than anybody”, this statement is highly unreliable given the Collector’s personality, and via the fact Collector himself later shows to not be aware of the fact that Titan magic cancels out Collector magic. This is a major plot point in For The Future as well as Watching and Dreaming, and is also implied to be how Papa Titan was able to defeat the Collector at all. Papa Titan also implies the Collector to be far stronger than him physically, and the Collector himself was implied to have been able to one-shot Titan Belos had he not tried a Steven Universe approach. We already don’t scale anyone in the verse to him at all including our Titan Luz key (which needs massive re-working as will be explained below), but I felt an elaboration to be necessary, and also I feel like putting this as a note under the Collector’s page or even Luz’s would be necessary too given how much of a common misconception this is.

However, scaling characters in the verse to the Collector in speed should not be an issue. We already have The Collector at similar speed to the rest of the cast despite having him as “the most powerful in the verse”, so this should not be much of a change. To provide specific examples, Luz with Stringbean as well as Eda and King are able to outrace the Collector and sting his tongue before he can react. She later moves fast enough to protect him from a blast from Titan Belos. On the topic of Titan Belos, Titan Belos is able to perceive and attack the Collector, albeit missing, and is still able to match him in some degree with his seemingly top flight speed. For reasons below, this should be around FTL too. But first, I’d like to go into why I believe the Collector should be ranked at 3-C, or at minimum, At least 5-A, possibly 3-C.

• The Collector’s bedroom contains a visible starry sky and nebulae, at minimum blatantly qualifying for 4-A

• The Collector’s bedroom is stated in the official audio description of the episode greenlit by Disney themselves as being the size of a galaxy, which is what would push this feat to 3-C.

• We see that The Collector created everything in the Archive without anything suggesting otherwise, which should reasonably include his “galaxy-sized bedroom”. As this is simply treated as being just another room within the archive while also being an entirely separate pocket reality, we can infer this to have been created when the Collector ‘designed” the Archive. The Collector also has not shown the capability of teleportation or portal creation even invery obvious caseswhere hewould have used such an ability, so assuming this is simply an already existing pocket dimension is an occam’s razor over simply assuming he created this realm when creating the archive in For the Future.

• The Collector has also been shown to have manipulated stars/star-based constructs later on, as well as creating matterand entirelyaltered versions of the Boiling Isles/Demon Realm, including creating and making objects disappear in the process, as is evident with the Archive’s very existence as well as the rooms within it having floors, paintings, etc., things we also don’t visibly see the Collector directly create. This would logically mean that a pocket reality he created in a similar manner above would have actual stars in them. His creation of the “Boiling Isles game” also expanded in a wave or shockwave, consistent with the formula we derive for the Starry Sky creation feat, so we can assume his “galaxy-sized bedroom” was created in a similar manner from nothing, which again, is consistent with how we treat Starry Sky creation feats. His creations also clearly have mass/weight, which would logically include his “galaxy-sized bedroom”, which itself has things which clearly have weight in it too.

• Additionally, we also see the Collector create pocket dimensions and realities in his “games” multiple times just in the opening few scenes of Watching and Dreaming, all of which just by simply the snap of his fingers if he so chose. These all have different environments, laws, and even…different skies too, including other starry sky dimensions (The Collector created this in place of the pac-man “game” dimension he just “lost” at, and this dimension clearly is different from the boiling isles/demon realm outside of having a similar sky/archivist floor. The “Jenga” dimension the Collector made is even literally just a (seemingly) infinite expanse of Jenga Blocks and nothing else. This all very clearly shows us that creating pocket realities is not at all out of The Collector’s realm of possibility when it comes to his powers, and that the “galaxy-sized bedroom” he created can almost only be attributed to him.

• The Collector creates a shooting star visible from the Boiling Isles’ night sky during Luz’s “king-ceanera”. This piece of evidence is admittedly weak, as shooting stars aren’t actually stars and are potentially tiny pieces of meteorites simply flying immensely fast through space. The “shooting star” here however does take the shape of an actual star expanding out from deep space, and as stated above, the Collector has manipulated what appear to be actual stars/star-based constructs in the past. But there simply is not enough context to back this up as actually being a 4-C or even a 5-B feat, but it does potentially back up what is stated above to support The Collector’s 3-C ranking.

As for FTL, this would come from similar logic. The Collector during Luz’s monologue explaining the aftermath of Belos’ defeat was stated to have “returned to the stars”. We know this is a quite literal statement as the Collector is nowhere to be seen in the epilogue, and had just summoned a shooting star while in deep space “in the area” (obviously not on the planet, so we can assume probably within the Demon Realm’s local star system or something similar). Using a minimum time frame of 4 years (which is the amount of time skipped from Belos’ defeat to Luz’s “king”-ceanara, given the fact that Luz had just graduated from high school and had successfully applied and was accepted into University of Wild Magic, making her 18 at minimum). Using the distance from Earth to Alpha Centauri (4.367 light-years), this gets a speed of 327,305,328 m/s, or 1.091 c (just above baseline FTL). This in itself is a low-ball as it assumes the Collector’s trip back to the “stars” took the entire 4 years from the aftermath of Belos’ defeat to right before Luz returned to the BI for her king-ceanara, which is a bit of a stretch. But there’s no other quantifiable timeframe beyond this, so we should rank the Collector’s speed at “At least FTL”. We can also likely scale this to his attack and reactionary speed, as he was able to talk, move his hand and head, and pilot himself on his shooting star flying towards the Archive as fast as he physically possibly can, which should scale above the aforementioned “returning to the stars” feat.

So basically, while the context is vague, there are enough things to concretely justify and back up a 3-C rating for The Collector. The 5-A+ feat for The Collector we currently use is quite far from The Collector’s peak by a completely ridiculous amount given the effortlessness of the feat implying such, and we accept this already with the “At least 5-A” tier. This would make a 3-C tier not at all an unreasonable assumption for The Collector’s true power. While we do not have the precise context for this realm’s creation, from what we’ve seen the Collector do, his already shown capability of creating realms and pocket realities with similarly altered environments, skies, and even altered size, and there being very little to suggest that the Collector did not create his bedroom in the Archive outside of various fallacious mental gymnastics, there is no reason that the Collector should not be 3-C.

High 6-A for Titan Luz, Titan Belos, and “eventually High 6-A” tier for King.​

The Titan’s magic massively upscales all other magic in the verse. It is magic stated to be so "potent" that it is what was responsible for the usage of magic across the boiling isles all-together. As stated above, it is also what correlates with and is responsible for witches to use magic in the first place and has it's strength dependent on it to an extent. The Boiling Isles' residents have seemingly utilized The Titan's magical power source for centuries on end without any sign of limitation. This of course on it's own isn't enough to back up any tier at all, let alone High 6-A, but the feats and statements below certainly do.

• The Boiling Isles’ Titan’s “knockout punches” were calc’d at High 6-A by @Oleggator. While this wouldn’t technically scale to Titan Luz physically due to her being normal human sized, there should be no reason for The Titan’s magic to not upscale it’s own physical strength for the same reasons Luz herself is shown to be stronger with her magic than she is physically, which we accept with the 9-B to 9-A tier with have for her physically. The Titan also has a direct feat on this level with its magic which is listed below, which backs this idea up undeniably.

• The Boiling Isles (which is The Titan which is stated verbatim by Luz herself), was responsible for showing Luz the ice glyph formation in the stars by illuminating said stars. This feat got High 6-A, around 11.78 Exatons, and this should definitely scale to Papa Titan’s magic. One rebuttal for this feat I’ve seen in a CRT that I posted a while back was “Well, this was probably just a natural occurrence from the Boiling Isles itself and not anything anyone did”. However, the fact that this was a “natural occurrence from the Boiling Isles” itself would mean that The Titan would be fully responsible for this. Even if it passively did this subconsciously (which is unlikely given the fact Papa Titan was watching Luz throughout her entire journey and helping her), it would still count for the power of its magic. And since we take magic in TOH as UESs, like with the creation of Luz’s ice glacier getting 7-C, this should scale to all of The Titan, and thus Titan Luz’s magic.

• Belos began to shake the entire Boiling Isles just by breathing inside of the Titan’s body (giggity) before he even begins to stand up at all, (which Titan Luz replicates with Eda and King charging into the Planet [just using KE for this alone would likely get much higher than the current 7-C rating anyway). This would at minimum justify 7-A (no I didn’t mean to go to the shaking an island thing here since the BI is stated to be the size of Vermont, but that should get a calc on it’s own), up to possibly even 6-B with some calcs of this even just using the BI itself (will post these in a blog after posting this). Alternative, instead of KE which is semi-unreasonable, we can use angular displacement arm swings for kinetic energy, which I was able to get to High 6-B. Belos does this a few other times so you can get other ends with this. But it backs up High 6-A since this is clearly far from the Titan’s physical peak.

• The Titan Belos thing is just pretty clearly and blatantly shown as being a surface wiping feat treated as an imminent threat. His moss is already quickly spreading across the BI and for reasons above, would possibly be spreading across the entire Demon Realm A.K.A the Boiling Isles’ planet (reddit provides interesting arguments for this being the case too, but obviously they aren’t an actual source, just other arguments besides mine), and is very nearly completed before Luz comes back to life. Even with as long as an hour long timeframe, this would still count as High 6-A (18.4 Petatons) using vaporization of the surface over the course of said one hour timeframe (assuming Belos’ heat breath could be taken as vaporization). However, given that Belos’ Titan heat breath is likely hax related when it killed Luz, we could instead go with pulverization, which would still yield 154.223 Teratons, or at absolute lowest with fragmentation 5.75 Teratons.

• We could also try to use Belos’ goop (giggity) spreading across the demon realm over the course of 1 hour (which we’d use as 40,075 km) for KE, which would likely yield High 6-A too or possibly even higher. We can also fully attribute this magical force to the Titan’s magic as well given the fact that Papa Titan himself states “Belos nearly has full control” over him.

• The force of Titan Luz removing Belos from the Titan’s heart also nearly immediately cleared (I.E vaporized in this case) a darkened cloud which covered at minimum the entire Boiling Isles to likely the entire BI planet (this should qualify as High 6-A using condensation value for a cumulonimbus cloud with the volume equivalent to 1% of Earth’s volume). We can consistently attribute this to The Titan/Titan Luz as a massive storm accompanying boiling rain to melt Belos is created shortly afterwards.
  • While Fandom isn’t a first-hand source, Belos’ draining spell is stated to be affecting the entirety of the Demon Realm (which is likely what the BI planet is), and Belos using the Titan (which again, is the Boiling Isles) would also be implying him to be destroying far more than just the boiling isles too, since at that point he’d just be walking around as the Boiling Isles eventually.

TL;DR: The Titan, and thus Titan Luz, Titan Belos, and eventually King, would all consistently be High 6-A. This is entirely consistent with the fact that Titan's magic is immensely more powerful than the entire civilization of the Boiling Isles to the point they are able to seemingly unlimitedly feed off of its power for hundreds of years on end. This clear level of absurdly massive upscaling above a majority of the verse does not warrant an only “likely higher” rating for Titan Luz’s key which besides that is the exact same as her base key. Additionally, the Titan’s sheer size makes its physical blows High 6-A which it’s magic should clearly upscale from, Titan Belos’ feats of shaking and manipulating the body of the Titan while possessing him get into around a High 6-A range and again, the Titan’s magic should upscale, and the Boiling Isles, who is The Titan is responsible for the High 6-A illumination feat which gets around 11.78 Exatons. 11.78 Exatons should be the numbered value we give for The Titan, Titan Luz, Titan Belos, and as an “eventually” for King.

And for one more minor cleanup, King’s Titan Wail should be High 7-A. This is due to the cloud splitting feat here from Titan Trapper island getting extremely close to High 7-A, and I was able to get it to similar levels as well. Finally, King should also be given an “eventually High 6-A” tier for his Season 2 onwards key FRA. (oh yeah, King should be given that as well due to his powers objectively increase after discovering more about them during Season 2). I'll let the comments discuss this one more, though.

This is about all for what I think should be changed for The Owl House in terms of its top-tiers. The verse also needs a heavy clean-up in terms of quality to put it on the same level as verses such as Amphibia, Star VS The Forces of Evil, Gravity Falls, etc, etc.

Agree:

Disagree:

Inconclusive:

 

[MrKerf]

Following + agree + great work. However, I am iffy about Titan Luz being High 6-A, let's see what others think.

 

[StoneKillerz12]

Following + agree + great work. However, I am iffy about Titan Luz being High 6-A, let's see what others think.

What do you agree with exactly then? You said "I am iffy about Titan Luz being High 6-A", which implies you don't agree.