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The One Below All (TOBA) Confirmation Statements From Writer Al Ewing (also question about immortal hulks Tier as well because it's most likely

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TheImagineBreaker121212

TheImagineBreaker121212

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so basically I got some scans from ZaStando27 (ya know the big bad menace that was extremely oppressive about Sonics Tier, better now and I can tell and his arguments are less off.......) And some debater named Cvc All-Ender showing that TOBA is Indeed TOAA's coined opposite (satan/god's hulk basically)

https://mobile.twitter.com/Al_Ewing/status/1088137492363124736

TOBA's direct influence is about as grave and special as TOAA

https://mobile.twitter.com/Al_Ewing/status/1093619244519051265

And Y'know the arguments about Hulk possibly not thunderclapping/holding back (that first one sounds wrong lol) "true" TOBA? Well here Al Ewing is completely oblivious to the concept (it matters because he writes TOBA)

https://mobile.twitter.com/Al_Ewing/status/1149754418717450240 Al Ewing: "I don't think TOBA or TOAA have "true forms". The smoke monster makes a good signifier, but even that looks different with different artists."

and when he's asked again (for Confirmation) Al Ewing: "I feel like you're overthinking it. It's like asking if the "real" TOAA looks like Jack Kirby or that guy Spidey met or a blank white page."

meaning that cloud monster Hulk Held Back with a thunderclap long enough to let everyone leave the green door dimension? That was TOBA.....

so is there a chance TOBA can get a profile and/or get scaled upwards to "possibly 1-A - 0" or are we gonna have to further discuss this?

and what about Immortal Hulk? He did send TOBA away for some noticeable amount of time.
 
^ No no no, that's fine but the writer al Ewing did also state they both have an influence and each is just as special as the other.

But it's a outlier that hulk held him back (it's confirmed he didn't beat the One Below All so there's that too)
 
No disputes from me in regards to TOBA's place in the marvel hierarchy. But I feel like we need to point out that he/it operates under a different set of rules than most cosmic entities.

Just to reiterate my point in the last thread on this matter:


  • TOBA is incapable of directly influencing the physical world with out a host soul or body
  • Even when he's possessed a soul or body he hasn't shown to amplify their powers in a significant way.
Keeping both these things in mind, we clearly can't scale the Hulk to TOBA based on the lore surrounding him, since it literally cannot express its power in any meaningful way. The only way we've actually seen TOBA directly influence the world is by subtly influencing ppl to get results desirable to it, like causing the men at the bar to fight and messing with Brian Banner through his dreams.

Hence why the Hulk can blow it away, it's a character that literally can't fight back in normal circumstances.

As further evidence Brian Banner (the current host) here describes the rules that TOBA functions under and then here basically gives us the TOBA's endgame.

Interestingly enough TOBA may be the only cosmic entity that is "weaker" in its true body than in an avatar or while possessing someone. When I say "weaker" I mean it in the sense that while it is probably one of marvels mightiest beings it cannot directly apply its power on anything.

This weakness will probably be circumvented at some point, but at the moment these are the rules as I understand them.
 
I also remember that somebody asked Al Ewing about this previously, and he said that the Hulk did definitely not one-shot the Devil/TOBA.

Also, all that he says above is that TOBA is that he is beyond physical form, which we already knew, if he is similar to TOAA.
 
And if the Hulk had defeated a 1-A entity, it would definitely be a one of Marvel's most extreme outliers.

In other comics with the Al Ewing Hulk, he is consistently severely damaged by Bushwacker's firearms btw, so we end up with the 1-A handgun argument mentioned in our page for Marvel and DC Comics outliers.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The One Below All is just a devil, he's really not so high up there in the Marvel Hierarchy.
Click to expand...
He is not just a Devil... It's literally stated that TOBA is God Absence. It's basically shown and implied he is equal and the opposite of TOAA based on the kabbalah concept they decided to choose.

Keter = TOAA/heaven as it's above all and is the divine unity. Thaumiel= TOBA/hell as it is below all.

All things is based on kaballah concepts within this comic and use the concepts correctly.
 
Antvasima said:
And if the Hulk had defeated a 1-A entity, it would definitely be a one of Marvel's most extreme outliers.

In other comics with the Al Ewing Hulk, he is consistently severely damaged by Bushwacker's firearms btw, so we end up with the 1-A handgun argument mentioned in our page for Marvel and DC Comics outliers.
Click to expand...

Problem though? I never said he oneshotted or defeated TOBA I said he held TOBA back just long enough for everyone to escape the green door dimension, which qualifies for 1-A and like I said it is a massive outlier.

1) I already showed a writer statement about how TOBA is TOAA's equivalent coined opposite.

2) It is stated that TOBA's direct influence in marvel is as grave and special as TOAA, so Fighting TOBA is like in some ways dealing with TOAA in a sense. That's my 2 cents on it to be frank with you guys. We're going to deny what the writer says when it confirms the speculation we've all been arguing over whether it's in another thread or a completely different site? I really suggest you guys think this over....
 
About The One Below All there's still to many questions than answers. Yes, without doubt it is the direct opposite of TOOA, but the best about this, in my opinion, is to wait and create the profile when most of the doubts are resolved. I say this to avoid any mistake or bad assumptions about the character.
 
DanielIH15 said:
About The One Below All there's still to many questions than answers. Yes, without doubt it is the direct opposite of TOOA, but the best about this, in my opinion, is to wait and create the profile when most of the doubts are resolved. I say this to avoid any mistake or bad assumptions about the character.
Click to expand...
In a sense you are correct, we haven't even seen the other cosmic deities reaction to the opposite of their supreme god.

but on another note he is the opposite of TOAA and has the same direct influence has him.


i say likely 2C to possibly 1-A| Possibly Tier 0
 
The Primal Monitor and The Writer are co-existing Tier 0s from the same verse (DC Comics) currently, though I have heard talk about removing the Writer for being too headcanon-nish.

Even then, Azathoth and Yog Sothoth still fit the same example. So yep, a verse can have multiple 0s.
 
I don't agree. The only thing he has going is his name and supposed place in the hierarchy. He has no feats that indicate Tier 1 stuff.
 
^ he definitely has statements though. If his direct influence is equally as relevant/grave as TOAA then he could be 1-A - 0 by scaling. But feats? Yeah we might have to wait until like Immortal Hulk #90 or Ultimates #175 to get something concrete. But right now he's TOAA Level by writer statements from the looks of it.
 
basically he is not just a devil. it is also confirmed in the comments that all these marvel devils and hells are just people and location. While below isn't a location but god face turned away.
 
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