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Eficiente

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Stats wise

(Done) Magic's listed as FTL in our profiles but it should be changed to Varies, it doesn't always go at FTL speeds, nor some peak speed w/o a charge up or anything consistent. It always reaches things quickly regardless of distance but has also been reacted to, dodged and outran by characters.

(Needs calc) Cosmo's flight speed should be calc'd, the feat is on the profile, and as something possibly it should be kept in mind how Yugopotemia may be in another galaxy, the reasons for it being on the last part of this, before it talks about Da Rules, that would just need to be quoted or something in the calc.

(Done) Supreme Magical Ruler of the Universe Crocker and Fairy Versery Gifts Timmy can be given a speed based on 2 things:

(Done) 1. Crocker reacted to an angry and serious Cosmo flying at him and blasted him a few times, later Cosmo flew at him again faster (and closer) and Crocker reacted again w/o doing anything. The first time he flew Timmy was able to see that too. So the 3 in their respective states can scale to Cosmo's flight speed.

(Needs a calc)) 2. Crocker reacted to an atomic explosion after the atom that generated it was split in 2 while himself standing on them and subatomic in size (By the end of this). Maybe Timmy reacted to the same from a bit further away but he was off-screen. This needs to be calc'd.

(Done) Their speed should be "[The speed from the atomic explosion feat], likely [Cosmo's flight speed feat]".

(Need calcs) Other speed feats that can be calc'd are pointed out here, this link covers the second one but for the first people need to have access to Wishology Part 3.

Powers wise

(Done) SMRotU Crocker (See his profile) should have Morality Manip next to his Mind Manip (self-explanatory) and Dimensional Travel next to his Size Manip, as it sent himself and Timmy to the inside of a pencil a normal person had in a normal study when everyone in the world was turned into slaves with the same clothes and with all houses and structures getting f*cked up.

(Didn't add it yet) I never did apply this so I'll do so, one day.

(It's an over time process, they show doing stuff at random per episode) All fairies should scale to each other on what they can do w/o their wands.
 
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Eficiente

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Cartoon verses made the misconception that Toon Force somehow scales like it given lack of control, but that's not the case. Timmy's 8-B "at his best"/only at the few times he's shown on that level due to his own feats/scaling, others weren't shown scaling to 8-B Timmy and so they don't scale. Every time they harm Timmy they harm an average 10-year-old kid.
 

Eficiente

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Most of it it's done, I pointed out what needs calcs, what's done and what I didn't do in the OP.
 

Eficiente

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Alright, I would like to propose what I believe is a Likely 3-A feat for regular fairies, it's a bit complex to hear:
  • Here a comic with magic having some water in the real world coming in contact with it leads to a bunch of water coming to the setting inside, a city, flooding most of it. Then a villain aimed to destroy a certain page of the comic, making Crimson Chin panick as he states that that's where the staples are, and without them, the book will fall apart. Only that much is said but I believe the only interpretation we can have from it is that the comicbook world/the setting that the book shows would fall apart, as otherwise there isn't really something for Chin to panick about.
  • Here it's shown many times that altering things written in book changes the settings and stories in their worlds inside, changing 1 word of 1 thing changing past and future uses of that word into the same thing, the title of the book if needed to, those words in every other copy of the book in the world, and how people remembers the events in those books. By the end, it's shown that this isn't limited to fiction but can be used on reality as well, without any limit shown to it, just shown how it can happen. The book that exemplafy this was about the laws of physics, things that logically expand over the whole universe and with at least math and gravity being included.
  • Therefore, I believe that the same mechanics that happened in the first feat applying to the last one could lead to the destruction of the universe, in more than 1 way even. If magic is put into the book of physics and enough water is thrown at it, the whole universe should be flooded, replace water with just blowing up the book and the universe should be blown up, a character inside the book destroying a page that would make the book fall apart would make the whole setting/the universe itself fall apart.
As inconsistent as the show may be, it also had decent worldbuilting for how things works like this and so it's fair to say that the mechanics for this similar/same powers would carry over when used in other episode.
 

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It seems too subject to interpretation without further evidence that things work in the same manner outside of the Crimson Chin comic book.
 

Eficiente

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I don't see why the way magic treats the Crimson Chin comicbook wouldn't be the same to how it treats any other book,
  • the way the Immersion is shown in that comic and in the classic books from that last episode is by them having a world inside, images in the books showing a theater-like perspective of it from which characters can move outside of when needed to, and in other times that 4° wall not being shown in the world inside when things are going on there.
  • The feats of changing reality by changing things in those classic books is something that also happened in the Crimson Chin comic, making Crimson Chin be sad/in fetal position spaned over all his comics in the world, and Timmy going inside the comic as a sidekick made him "part of the continuity" from then on.
So it seems to be a mechanic of how things work that should apply to other uses.

The stuff that happened with the water can be summed up as "magic can be used to destroy the whole setting inside a book, and affect it all in ways comparable to the power that would take to destroy it all".

So, that knowledge going over how magic can affect books about reality in the same way as with fictional books would mean it can do the same. It should pass over previous feats on fictional books into those being able to be done in books about reality because that's what's being shown.
 

Antvasima

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Well, you may be right, but as far as I understand, it is still a fictional world to the standard TFOP reality, so speculating that the rules of the former carries over to the latter seems too speculative for us to scale it as a certainty to character statistics.
 

Eficiente

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Ok, I simply disagree then. Sorry to be repetitive but if affecting a work of fiction can optionally have the scale to destroy that whole setting then affecting reality in the same way should carry over how it can have the scale to destroy it all. As a conclusion based on what we know rather than inapplicable speculation like a headcanon. Any tiny thing everywhere in a work of fiction is subjected to be changed by magic as everything is encompassed by a book, even if something isn't shown/written about in the book but it's implied to exist or would realistically exist in the world of that setting, and as the same changes can be done in reality, there shouldn't be any tiny thing that can't be affected, any place that wouldn't be reached, or any limit to how many things can be affected at once, because none of that was shown as an issue with fiction and we simply know that the same can be done on reality, in a book that should very much encompass the universe.
 

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Well, I am just saying that I am uncomfortable with scaling statistics based on speculation. That is all.
 

Eficiente

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I respect Ant's disagreement and would like other users' opinions on that feat.

And, I found another feat I propose that we should use as 1 more reason for fairies to scale to Jorgen; Here, unfortunately why that would justify scaling needs yet another somewhat complex explanation. That's how the show has it, to make it as short as I can:
  • Pixies took over Fairy World and nulled the magic of every fairy there when used, including Jorgen. They did this by buying the place and in unexplored ways but I fail to see how it wouldn't be via their own powers.
  • Cosmo was able to change Fairy World back to normal, including giving Jorgen back his powers.
  • To note, Cosmo did this with a phone the Pixies use as wands, and he was placed in a high position that would make one believe at glance that his magic was better than normal, but there're some factors indicating that this is not the case:
    • When Timmy asked Cosmo where was his wand, Cosmo said that "we don't use those anymore", indicating that the phone he has is something everyone had. Cosmo's phone isn't shown as above others as they're all the same.
    • The same feat Cosmo just so happened to do is something Wanda should be able to do too, as it was something Timmy planned on wishing in general.
This is similar to the other feat we have for 3-A scaling where Pixies created a contract that, when signed, would make them take over Fairy World and be above Jorgen, the reason why they show this high feats is because they need some sort of business-like motivation for them, hence why it's stated here that "Pixies are just as magical as faires, but they treat magic just like a business", and hence they do things like magic from phones, have everyone write their wishes & have them approved first, and a magical contract, but it's not that they're more powerful than regular fairies, the latter statement points them as equal and something like it is said in School's Out!: The Musical (Them being "just as magic" as faries). This also explains why buying allows them to null others' powers, it's just the Pixies' own powers being used over the powers of others.

Nor are this business-like goals they have some amp when reached that let's them do magic above that of Jorgen's, as that was never stated and it would go against them being equal to fairies. They're just that dumb.
 

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Are there any members that you would suggest that we send a notification to here for additional input?
 

Antvasima

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I found another feat I propose that we should use as 1 more reason for fairies to scale to Jorgen; Here, unfortunately why that would justify scaling needs yet another somewhat complex explanation. That's how the show has it, to make it as short as I can:
  • Pixies took over Fairy World and nulled the magic of every fairy there when used, including Jorgen. They did this by buying the place and in unexplored ways but I fail to see how it wouldn't be via their own powers.
  • Cosmo was able to change Fairy World back to normal, including giving Jorgen back his powers.
  • To note, Cosmo did this with a phone the Pixies use as wands, and he was placed in a high position that would make one believe at glance that his magic was better than normal, but there're some factors indicating that this is not the case:
    • When Timmy asked Cosmo where was his wand, Cosmo said that "we don't use those anymore", indicating that the phone he has is something everyone had. Cosmo's phone isn't shown as above others as they're all the same.
    • The same feat Cosmo just so happened to do is something Wanda should be able to do too, as it was something Timmy planned on wishing in general.
This is similar to the other feat we have for 3-A scaling where Pixies created a contract that, when signed, would make them take over Fairy World and be above Jorgen, the reason why they show this high feats is because they need some sort of business-like motivation for them, hence why it's stated here that "Pixies are just as magical as faires, but they treat magic just like a business", and hence they do things like magic from phones, have everyone write their wishes & have them approved first, and a magical contract, but it's not that they're more powerful than regular fairies, the latter statement points them as equal and something like it is said in School's Out!: The Musical (Them being "just as magic" as faries). This also explains why buying allows them to null others' powers, it's just the Pixies' own powers being used over the powers of others.

Nor are this business-like goals they have some amp when reached that let's them do magic above that of Jorgen's, as that was never stated and it would go against them being equal to fairies. They're just that dumb.
@Psychomaster35 @LordGriffin1000 @Alonik @Dino_Ranger_Black @Imaginym

What do you think about this?
 
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Why is it presumed Jorgen is above other fairies to begin with?
Also, if he is above normal fairies, scaling Normal Fairies to Jurgen who is above them might create circular logic, no?
 
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Seems like the Pixies have some form of Oath Manipulation, an ability that allows you to do what you normally couldn't do on your own.
Didn't he beat the all the Anti-Faries like 2 times or so? He also beat most Fairies in a battle royale for Timmy and was said to be the toughest/strongest fairy
 
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Eficiente

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Why is it presumed Jorgen is above other fairies to begin with?
Also, if he is above normal fairies, scaling Normal Fairies to Jurgen who is above them might create circular logic, no?
Here are a bunch of characters saying that he's the strongest or toughest fairy in the universe, but there're some catches
  • they could all refer to physical strength, hence at least once when they say that he shows his muscles, and being the "toughest" seems more fitting to being more rude, having more experience and the like rather than having more magical power.
  • Even if he does have more powerful magic, the degree of it is unknown.
  • And most notably, magic's pretty nonsensical in FOP, literally. Timmy as a fairy has the power to turn Cosmo & Wanda from humans to fairies, Cosmo can use his wand to create many more wands, and Wanda has a feat like it too as she shot wands at other fairies in Most Wanted Wish. I say that it makes sense for some gap in power to be able to be ignored when using magic and the use given to it requires so.
Seems like the Pixies have some form of Oath Manipulation, an ability that allows you to do what you normally couldn't do on your own.
The "Manipulation" in the name of the power sounds misleading. I would love seeing that ability in the wiki one day but that's something to be very careful about. Some of the characters that would seem to have it have strong contradictions to it or in others the mechanics aren't as limiting as they seem.

Here we don't know if Pixies have that power, we can start by assuming so based on how they "treat magic just like a bussiness", but that doesn't necessarily come as a real limit they have but something they feel like doing.

Cosmo alone was able to revert their feat that scales to Jorgen, Wanda would have been able to do the same, and that came out of Timmy wishing to his fairies, the "oath" there was just to allow Timmy to have a wish w/o paparwork. And Pixies being "just as magical as faires" when first explaining who they are and what they did to a Fairy World they took over would go against them having some extra power due to success in bussiness-like things, as having that extra power would make the Pixies not quite as just as magical as fairies, they owning everyone would mean each Pixies is above Jorgen. And that's not the case, each Pixie is just as powerful in that episode as they were in any other, and just as powerful as any fairy.

So no, to say that they could do something they normally couldn't doesn't add up. But meanwhile the idea that they're just incompetent and that that limits them from doing stuff that would let them take over Fairy World is easily fitting for the show:
  • Norm in his second appearance teamed up with Crocker to destroy Timmy, Crocker noted that Norm needed his wishes to trigger his magic and so they did what Crocker wanted to to attack Timmy, expept that was not the case at all as Norm could use magic on his own over that whole episode, not to mention his last and future appearances.
  • Cosmo & Wanda are implied to not be able to help Timmy in things w/o him wishing for something first, and they may even be willing to let themselves and others die for it, but then that's only sometimes and in other times they easiliy help out Timmy w/o him wishing for it.
  • Pixies in School's Out!: The Musical tried and failed 2 37-year long plans to take over Fairy World, when at least the second one could have been easily hurried by their use of magic, but they just didn't do that. Then they say that they will do a six-week plan later.
Didn't he beat the all the Anti-Faries like 2 times or so? He also beat most Fairies in a battle royale for Timmy
Idk about a second time but he did so once physically, if he also got knocked out by a number of them flying towards him before it. He also once got his magic nulled by "the presence" of many Anti-Fairies around. He beat some fairies in that battle royale and had good chances at winning, it consisted in everyone shooting at each other, aiming well anyone being able to beat anyone, it's not something that marks superiority over their magic.
 
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Here are a bunch of characters saying that he's the strongest or toughest fairy in the universe, but there're some catches
  • they could all refer to physical strength, hence at least once when they say that he shows his muscles, and being the "toughest" seems more fitting to being more rude, having more experience and the like rather than having more magical power.
  • Even if he does have more powerful magic, the degree of it is unknown.
  • And most notably, magic's pretty nonsensical in FOP, literally. Timmy as a fairy has the power to turn Cosmo & Wanda from humans to fairies, Cosmo can use his wand to create many more wands, and Wanda has a feat like it too as she shot wands at other fairies in Most Wanted Wish. I say that it makes sense for some gap in power to be able to be ignored when using magic and the use given to it requires so.

Pretty sure in Action Packed & Abra-Catastrophe when they were talking about power they included magic aswell. Also if it was just his physical strength they were intimidated than why wouldn't any of them try wish themselves getting jacked up or sth like. BTW nice findings.
The "Manipulation" in the name of the power sounds misleading. I would love seeing that ability in the wiki one day but that's something to be very careful about. Some of the characters that would seem to have it have strong contradictions to it or in others the mechanics aren't as limiting as they seem.

Here we don't know if Pixies have that power, we can start by assuming so based on how they "treat magic just like a bussiness", but that doesn't necessarily come as a real limit they have but something they feel like doing.

Cosmo alone was able to revert their feat that scales to Jorgen, Wanda would have been able to do the same, and that came out of Timmy wishing to his fairies, the "oath" there was just to allow Timmy to have a wish w/o paparwork. And Pixies being "just as magical as faires" when first explaining who they are and what they did to a Fairy World they took over would go against them having some extra power due to success in bussiness-like things, as having that extra power would make the Pixies not quite as just as magical as fairies, they owning everyone would mean each Pixies is above Jorgen. And that's not the case, each Pixie is just as powerful in that episode as they were in any other, and just as powerful as any fairy.

So no, to say that they could do something they normally couldn't doesn't add up. But meanwhile the idea that they're just incompetent and that that limits them from doing stuff that would let them take over Fairy World is easily fitting for the show:
  • Norm in his second appearance teamed up with Crocker to destroy Timmy, Crocker noted that Norm needed his wishes to trigger his magic and so they did what Crocker wanted to to attack Timmy, expept that was not the case at all as Norm could use magic on his own over that whole episode, not to mention his last and future appearances.
  • Cosmo & Wanda are implied to not be able to help Timmy in things w/o him wishing for something first, and they may even be willing to let themselves and others die for it, but then that's only sometimes and in other times they easiliy help out Timmy w/o him wishing for it.
  • Pixies in School's Out!: The Musical tried and failed 2 37-year long plans to take over Fairy World, when at least the second one could have been easily hurried by their use of magic, but they just didn't do that. Then they say that they will do a six-week plan later.
That's why I said "some sorf of" Oath Manip. You could say one of it's subpowers like Contract Bestowal would be more fitting in this case. I guess C&W could have it too then
Idk about a second time but he did so once physically, if he also got knocked out by a number of them flying towards him before it. He also once got his magic nulled by "the presence" of many Anti-Fairies around. He beat some fairies in that battle royale and had good chances at winning, it consisted in everyone shooting at each other, aiming well anyone being able to beat anyone, it's not something that marks superiority over their magic.
It was in the 1st episode of season 10. Timmy wished there were no more Fridays, which is the day the giant fairy wand gets recharged. It's power protects Dimsdale(and I assume the rest of the world) protected from the anti-faries. This wish left C&W very low on magic. Jorgen oneshot Foop with his wand,after that he undoes the chaos of the other anti-fairies and Timmy's wish.
 

Eficiente

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Pretty sure in Action Packed & Abra-Catastrophe when they were talking about power they included magic aswell. Also if it was just his physical strength they were intimidated than why wouldn't any of them try wish themselves getting jacked up or sth like. BTW nice findings.
In Action Packed he amps himself using other fairies and gaining physical strength was part of that, that doesn't tells us much of their gap in power, he could still have magic as powerful as that of other fairies and don't think he could make himself more powerful. In Abra-Catastrophe he calls himself the toughest fairy in the universe while showing his muscles, then doing a pose a saying that he fears nothing, that if anything talks about physical strength.

They could buff themselves, they don't because they lack the common sense to do so, and likewise an angry Wanda and his father have also intimidated Jorgen before. There's also the fact that his position of authority is also a factor as he abuses of it.
That's why I said "some sorf of" Oath Manip. You could say one of it's subpowers like Contract Bestowal would be more fitting in this case. I guess C&W could have it too then
Same as before, in C&W's case they also wouldn't have it as they can do magic on their own and use magic to help, harm or do anything to Timmy on their own. That's why I said that things like it would need to be looked carefully, we have characters like Calypso whose whole deal is to be limited by that and yet wouldn't should he have the power as he has a number of cases where he uses his powers at will.

Please do not link Superpower Wiki anymore, a power like that would need our own page with our own standards, you can make a CRT about it. It's better that the Contruction power currently being discussed.
It was in the 1st episode of season 10. Timmy wished there were no more Fridays, which is the day the giant fairy wand gets recharged. It's power protects Dimsdale(and I assume the rest of the world) protected from the anti-faries. This wish left C&W very low on magic. Jorgen oneshot Foop with his wand,after that he undoes the chaos of the other anti-fairies and Timmy's wish.
Ok, but undoing Timmy's wish is Causality Manip or other hax, it's not like he made his magic overpower the magic of all other Anti-Fairies to kick them away. They're glasscannons that can be easily dealt with by anyone with magic.
 
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They could buff themselves, they don't because they lack the common sense to do so, and likewise an angry Wanda and his father have also intimidated Jorgen before. There's also the fact that his position of authority is also a factor as he abuses of it.
Wanda has actually straight up said it in 1 episode, so at least she has that kind common sense. Pretty sure that was Wanda's sister disguised as her(he seemed more shocked by her having a different reaction than usual and was worried that his favorite show was going to get cancelled). Didn't her father use Magic Trash against Jorgen?
Same as before, in C&W's case they also wouldn't have it as they can do magic on their own and use magic to help, harm or do anything to Timmy on their own. That's why I said that things like it would need to be looked carefully, we have characters like Calypso whose whole deal is to be limited by that and yet wouldn't should he have the power as he has a number of cases where he uses his powers at will.
Then we just specify that they can do this and that via contract, like we have Black Hat/Alastor stealing souls via contracts or Bill Cipher gaining full access to his victims mind and body via deals. You said yourself, Pixies=Fairies and they wouldn't normally have the power to enslave all the Fairies. If it's just incompetence/personality, wouldn't sb who isn't ficsated on the whole bussines spiel & competent enough to think about it to just do it, like Anti-Cosmo, already try to pull off such a thing? Isn't this whole nulling everyones magic after buying Fairy World more hax than AP anyway?
  • Norm in his second appearance teamed up with Crocker to destroy Timmy, Crocker noted that Norm needed his wishes to trigger his magic and so they did what Crocker wanted to to attack Timmy, expept that was not the case at all as Norm could use magic on his own over that whole episode, not to mention his last and future appearances.
  • Cosmo & Wanda are implied to not be able to help Timmy in things w/o him wishing for something first, and they may even be willing to let themselves and others die for it, but then that's only sometimes and in other times they easiliy help out Timmy w/o him wishing for it.
That shows that Norm has minor freedom to do a thing or 2 with his magic ,but not have the fullpower he would have when he grants wishes. In the same episode he needed to give his lamp to Timmy, to make a wish to get rid of Crocker. I mean, he was SUPER annoyed with Crocker and if he had enough freedom with his powers do so, he would have done it; instead of just begging the kid,who tricked him last time,to make him do it.(I bet Genies would have their own rules like Fairies).
They have consistently helped him with simple stuff without him needing to make a wish, like healing him & "sometimes" keeping him safe(when they're paying attention). With more complex stuff, like wishing a superpowered world back to normal, h has to say it word-for-word.
Ok, but undoing Timmy's wish is Causality Manip or other hax, it's not like he made his magic overpower the magic of all other Anti-Fairies to kick them away. They're glasscannons that can be easily dealt with by anyone with magic.
That should be mentioned in his page. Also what would erasing Fridays from existance count as, Concept/Casuality Manipulation? Now that I'm thinking it, the 1st time he said he was going to do it he said he was going to use every urg of his awesome fairy power while holding his glowing wand up with both hands(likey including his magic too). When he does it in the end of the episode we don't get what he exactly did to them, you can't say it was just physical. Wouldn't the Anti-Fairy have just the slightiest amount of common sense to either team up and gang on him or just teleport away? Their leader is the foxy Anti-Cosmo afterall and anti-faires are equal to fairies in terms of magic. Jorgen is a glasscannon too and if had just the same amount of magic as a normal Fairy then he wouldn't have good chances against them.
 

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I haven't watch much of the Fairly OddParents after Poof came along but I do remember Jorgen is often treated to be a cut above other fairies. Some even outright feared him (save for the Tooth Fairy but they are engaged). Overall, I agree.
 

Eficiente

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Wanda has actually straight up said it in 1 episode, so at least she has that kind common sense. Pretty sure that was Wanda's sister disguised as her(he seemed more shocked by her having a different reaction than usual and was worried that his favorite show was going to get cancelled). Didn't her father use Magic Trash against Jorgen?
It's not something that mattes, their common sense isn't consistent and varies from episode to episode and in 1 same episode if it fits the plot or humor. Wanda did make Jorgen back off worried in A Wish Too Far!, his father use magic but it wasn't portrayed as in hax or something that would incapacitate Jorgen, he got intimidated for little reason other than Big Daddy messing with him.

It all really doesn't matter.
Then we just specify that they can do this and that via contract, like we have Black Hat/Alastor stealing souls via contracts or Bill Cipher gaining full access to his victims mind and body via deals. You said yourself, Pixies=Fairies and they wouldn't normally have the power to enslave all the Fairies. If it's just incompetence/personality, wouldn't sb who isn't ficsated on the whole bussines spiel & competent enough to think about it to just do it, like Anti-Cosmo, already try to pull off such a thing? Isn't this whole nulling everyones magic after buying Fairy World more hax than AP anyway?
Do not just ignore the points made above about this being wrong. Idk Black Hat but Bill had the power well defined and even could still enter to others' minds w/o deals and can possess inanimate things freely. Overthink how things would go due to their intelligence is wrong, I simply pointed why they didn't do certain thing. Any Pixie or Anti-Fairy could have erased the concept of Friday and mess things up because of it, they're all unable to use their powers competently when it comes to what if?s like it and how things should go, they only do things competently in 1 linear story done per episode when not overthought. Calling it hax is an excuse, they don't just have 3-A Power Nullification while having lesser magic, many uses of magic are similarly powerful w/o specific ones that eclipse others in powers, and they can even be used after they came out of a wand to be molded into a another use of magic with a new power different than the one/s used before.
That shows that Norm has minor freedom to do a thing or 2 with his magic ,but not have the fullpower he would have when he grants wishes. In the same episode he needed to give his lamp to Timmy, to make a wish to get rid of Crocker. I mean, he was SUPER annoyed with Crocker and if he had enough freedom with his powers do so, he would have done it; instead of just begging the kid,who tricked him last time,to make him do it.(I bet Genies would have their own rules like Fairies).
That's just downplay, it's not "minor freedom" when he literally liberated himself from Crocker while talking his lamb away too. You are the one making up it's "minor freedom" and that he would lack his "fullpower" when that's not the limit that was stated, it was that he couldn't use his magic, but he can, and so logically he can. He is restricted to having to grant Crocker's wishes but that's not the same as not being able to use magic himself, hence he gave his lamp to Timmy, you are the one making up that he needed to give his lamp to Timmy to make a wish to get rid of Crocker by using a legit limit he has to justify a made up one. You are the one making up that Norm would have done it himself if he could when being less annoyed with his enemy and betraying Crocker like that with Crocker's enemy is also valid. Idk if he begged, but the situation is not how you portray it, Norm was casual like always and still wanted to mess with Timmy after it.
They have consistently helped him with simple stuff without him needing to make a wish, like healing him & "sometimes" keeping him safe(when they're paying attention). With more complex stuff, like wishing a superpowered world back to normal, h has to say it word-for-word.
That is downplay as that's all PIS and CIS, they have many times done each and every thing they were limited by. You cannot throw some ill-defined difference between simple stuff and complex, they have reverted wishes he made, defended him from enemies, helped in things one wouldn't even know he needed help, etc. When the show feels like, Cosmo & Wanda are as smart as a normal person, sometimes even more, and have the common sense of one, logically leading to them using their powers in a way that would help out in the context they're in a way that any person would.
That should be mentioned in his page. Also what would erasing Fridays from existance count as, Concept/Casuality Manipulation?
Their durability and physicality is already below their magic and Jorgen can already use every power Timmy has. It was Conceptual Manip.
Now that I'm thinking it, the 1st time he said he was going to do it he said he was going to use every urg of his awesome fairy power while holding his glowing wand up with both hands(likey including his magic too). When he does it in the end of the episode we don't get what he exactly did to them, you can't say it was just physical. Wouldn't the Anti-Fairy have just the slightiest amount of common sense to either team up and gang on him or just teleport away? Their leader is the foxy Anti-Cosmo afterall and anti-faires are equal to fairies in terms of magic. Jorgen is a glasscannon too and if had just the same amount of magic as a normal Fairy then he wouldn't have good chances against them.
Dude, don't overthink the show, it runs on suspension of disbelief. We hear punches and screams when Jorgen attacks them, that's all you need to know.
 

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Also see this and this blogs that point out how bs the show is. I really do get when people use the verse in Vs debates and instantly buys into things like dragons being impervious to magic because the show said so, but there're far more to it. The suspension of disbelief is only subconscious or nonexistent, one may even look at an episode as an adult and not even think about how Cosmo & Wanda created a psychotic bike with hypnosis when they would never do that if the wish for it was in the middle of the episode and not to help most of the plot and set a climax at the end, things just happen and everyone rolls with them.
 
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It's not something that mattes, their common sense isn't consistent and varies from episode to episode and in 1 same episode if it fits the plot or humor. Wanda did make Jorgen back off worried in A Wish Too Far!, his father use magic but it wasn't portrayed as in hax or something that would incapacitate Jorgen, he got intimidated for little reason other than Big Daddy messing with him.

It all really doesn't matter.

Do not just ignore the points made above about this being wrong. Idk Black Hat but Bill had the power well defined and even could still enter to others' minds w/o deals and can possess inanimate things freely. Overthink how things would go due to their intelligence is wrong, I simply pointed why they didn't do certain thing. Any Pixie or Anti-Fairy could have erased the concept of Friday and mess things up because of it, they're all unable to use their powers competently when it comes to what if?s like it and how things should go, they only do things competently in 1 linear story done per episode when not overthought. Calling it hax is an excuse, they don't just have 3-A Power Nullification while having lesser magic, many uses of magic are similarly powerful w/o specific ones that eclipse others in powers, and they can even be used after they came out of a wand to be molded into a another use of magic with a new power different than the one/s used before.

That's just downplay, it's not "minor freedom" when he literally liberated himself from Crocker while talking his lamb away too. You are the one making up it's "minor freedom" and that he would lack his "fullpower" when that's not the limit that was stated, it was that he couldn't use his magic, but he can, and so logically he can. He is restricted to having to grant Crocker's wishes but that's not the same as not being able to use magic himself, hence he gave his lamp to Timmy, you are the one making up that he needed to give his lamp to Timmy to make a wish to get rid of Crocker by using a legit limit he has to justify a made up one. You are the one making up that Norm would have done it himself if he could when being less annoyed with his enemy and betraying Crocker like that with Crocker's enemy is also valid. Idk if he begged, but the situation is not how you portray it, Norm was casual like always and still wanted to mess with Timmy after it.

That is downplay as that's all PIS and CIS, they have many times done each and every thing they were limited by. You cannot throw some ill-defined difference between simple stuff and complex, they have reverted wishes he made, defended him from enemies, helped in things one wouldn't even know he needed help, etc. When the show feels like, Cosmo & Wanda are as smart as a normal person, sometimes even more, and have the common sense of one, logically leading to them using their powers in a way that would help out in the context they're in a way that any person would.

Their durability and physicality is already below their magic and Jorgen can already use every power Timmy has. It was Conceptual Manip.

Dude, don't overthink the show, it runs on suspension of disbelief. We hear punches and screams when Jorgen attacks them, that's all you need to know.
Eh, what you said makes sense. As long as the pages note how they like to use their power their powers I'm ok.

I rewatched the Norm episode; my bad, he was chill when he talked to Timmy in the end of episode

Nay. Bill can hunt people dreams without needing deal, but to get full access to the mind he needs to make deals (Ford pointed this out in Wierdmaggedon. If it wasn't for that rule, he would have gotten the info needed to free himself from GF without any problem). He can possess inanimeted objects without deals, but he needs them to possess humans. He has human possession and soul removal already listed as deal/non combat applicabble power in his page

I didn't mean them being glass cannons getting mentioned in their page. I meant Jorgen undoing the Friday Wish getting mentioned in his page as another example of Causality Manipulation. Also C&W erasing Friday would be worth mentioning too, no?

Also see this and this blogs that point out how bs the show is. I really do get when people use the verse in Vs debates and instantly buys into things like dragons being impervious to magic because the show said so, but there're far more to it. The suspension of disbelief is only subconscious or nonexistent, one may even look at an episode as an adult and not even think about how Cosmo & Wanda created a psychotic bike with hypnosis when they would never do that if the wish for it was in the middle of the episode and not to help most of the plot and set a climax at the end, things just happen and everyone rolls with them.
When I've time I'll give them a better look. BTW in the blog you linked at the start of the thread i made a comment a few month ago, any thoughts?
 

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Eh, what you said makes sense. As long as the pages note how they like to use their power their powers I'm ok.
Idk what you mean there.
Nay. Bill can hunt people dreams without needing deal, but to get full access to the mind he needs to make deals (Ford pointed this out in Wierdmaggedon. If it wasn't for that rule, he would have gotten the info needed to free himself from GF without any problem). He can possess inanimeted objects without deals, but he needs them to possess humans. He has human possession and soul removal already listed as deal/non combat applicabble power in his page
Something like it, it was an example to point out how careful one needs to be with this would-be limitations.
I meant Jorgen undoing the Friday Wish getting mentioned in his page as another example of Causality Manipulation. Also C&W erasing Friday would be worth mentioning too, no?
I'm rewatching the show and adding in several albums on Imgut notable uses of magic in the show, along it updating the profiles and adding individual videos having powers being used. I'm on season 4 right now and anything beyond season 6 will be done in dues, so it will take a while to add it with evidence.
When I've time I'll give them a better look. BTW in the blog you linked at the start of the thread i made a comment a few month ago, any thoughts?
I see them. "Fairy magic cannot affect other magical or super-powerful items." was actually not a rule but a fan interpretation done by the FOP wiki, idk the context of those eps but they seem like PIS, the things they were unable to do there seem to pale next to many other similar things they were able to do. What has a monster vaccum cleaner that makes them unable to teleport out of it when they can teleport across the universe and into other universe? Magic has also been said to be "all-powerful", therefore we can't say that magic doesn't work against all-powerful things, Norm was also an "all-powerful" Genie and Cosmo & Wanda didn't have an issue defeading Timmy against him when they believed they had to. Those Greek Gods may have some resisance to magic described in the much simpler way of just saying that they're super powerful, that's common in fiction.
 

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@Ant I believe from my point of view that I clarified the doubts about Jorgen and other stuff and that the conclusion should be to apply what I proposed, but it would be better if others were to say so.
 
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iirc, didnt Wanda father also could scare Jorgen in a sense of being more powerful/dangerous?
 

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@Ant I believe from my point of view that I clarified the doubts about Jorgen and other stuff and that the conclusion should be to apply what I proposed, but it would be better if others were to say so.
Okay. Let's wait a bit then.

If you write an explanation of the arguments here so far, I could send a notification to several other staff members, and ask them to evaluate it.
 
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Idk what you mean there.
About Norm, C&W cases being more of them sometime lacking common sense or just not deciding to use their powers in a certain way and not being a limitation on their magic

Something like it, it was an example to point out how careful one needs to be with this would-be limitations.
Pretty much
I'm rewatching the show and adding in several albums on Imgut notable uses of magic in the show, along it updating the profiles and adding individual videos having powers being used. I'm on season 4 right now and anything beyond season 6 will be done in dues, so it will take a while to add it with evidence.
So even if bring scans that happen after that season, like a supporting lifting strength feat for example, it still won't get added?
I see them. "Fairy magic cannot affect other magical or super-powerful items." was actually not a rule but a fan interpretation done by the FOP wiki, idk the context of those eps but they seem like PIS, the things they were unable to do there seem to pale next to many other similar things they were able to do. What has a monster vaccum cleaner that makes them unable to teleport out of it when they can teleport across the universe and into other universe? Magic has also been said to be "all-powerful", therefore we can't say that magic doesn't work against all-powerful things, Norm was also an "all-powerful" Genie and Cosmo & Wanda didn't have an issue defeading Timmy against him when they believed they had to. Those Greek Gods may have some resisance to magic described in the much simpler way of just saying that they're super powerful, that's common in fiction.
It is defenetly NOT fanmade. That magic brownie recipe was made by Jorgen's granny to win a competition to win a contest which decides whether the fairies or anti-fairies will have goddchildren by Mother Nature. 1 little crumb made Timmy addicted to them. The brownies were powerful enough to effect both Poof and Mother Nature(who likely stronger than a normal fairy. She indimidated Timmy's fairies, Jorgan, his granny and seeing her athority). Cosmo admits he can make them without the recipe cause their magic. So you're saying their teleportation can't be negated cause they have good range? Btw the vaccum cleaner was likely made by anti-fairy magic. Wether sb is weaker/stronger than C&W, they would try protect Timmy anyway, as long as it doesn't break the rules(also I think Genies=~Fairies).
We already use this rule in their pages-"Timmy stated that "magic can't affect other magical items" when using Cosmo transformed into a magical shield to reflect a couple of magical transmutation beams, later using Santa's magic bag to protect himself and Cosmo from Crocker [warping the world and manipulating everyone's minds, Timmy had every magical item still working afterwards[24]. While controled by Calamitous he created a magical, yet otherwise regular desk to hide behind it and avoid being destroyed by a bomb that would blow up the universe and tear & revert time[25]. Attack Reflection (Magic mirror)"
...I clarified the doubts about Jorgen...
Speaking of which, why does Jorgen has Plot/Fate hax in his with wand power where he never even used the wand in that episode? Check it yourself when you have time.
 

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So even if bring scans that happen after that season, like a supporting lifting strength feat for example, it still won't get added?
I download the epidose in a reasonable quality and audio, cut the parts that matter and put them on Imgur, that's on reverse, idk if I can use that page, and the quality and audio are a bit bad. So sorry.
Butch was reading it from the FOP wiki, as it had it that way word for word. The other page is fanmade and interpreted by fans, many of its rules aren't even rules and even has a part showing fanmade, made up rules for no reason.
That magic brownie recipe was made by Jorgen's granny to win a competition to win a contest which decides whether the fairies or anti-fairies will have goddchildren by Mother Nature. 1 little crumb made Timmy addicted to them. The brownies were powerful enough to effect both Poof and Mother Nature(who likely stronger than a normal fairy. She indimidated Timmy's fairies, Jorgan, his granny and seeing her athority). Cosmo admits he can make them without the recipe cause their magic. So you're saying their teleportation can't be negated cause they have good range? Btw the vaccum cleaner was likely made by anti-fairy magic.
Idk why any of this matters, the structure isn't clear. If Anti-Fairies made that thing then it made give a form of Sealing or some other powers to allow fairies to not be able to get out of it, do not use your time on something that doesn't matter.
Wether sb is weaker/stronger than C&W, they would try protect Timmy anyway, as long as it doesn't break the rules
You're not being clear, idk what do you mean by trying to protect Timmy being something that would break the rules.
Yes, and why does it matter that we do?
Speaking of which, why does Jorgen has Plot/Fate hax in his with wand power where he never even used the wand in that episode? Check it yourself when you have time.
It's something he can do and has done so before, he had the book from off-screen and it could have been a normal book affected by magic.
 
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I download the epidose in a reasonable quality and audio, cut the parts that matter and put them on Imgur, that's on reverse, idk if I can use that page, and the quality and audio are a bit bad. So sorry.
It's bit zoomed in, didn't have any audio problem for me, but whatever
The other page is fanmade and interpreted by fans, many of its rules aren't even rules and even has a part showing fanmade, made up rules for no reason.
It was written in the offical part of Da Rules list, not the fan made section
Idk why any of this matters, the structure isn't clear. If Anti-Fairies made that thing then it made give a form of Sealing or some other powers to allow fairies to not be able to get out of it
Besides that it was meant to show how powerful and important the brownies were and why they couldn't just be created/summoned with magic. A somewhat simular case to the magic muffin. (Suprisngly both were baked by Jorgen)
, do not use your time on something that doesn't matter.
Like using it for vs debating
You're not being clear, idk what do you mean by trying to protect Timmy being something that would break the rules.
WHAT? I didn't mean them protecting Timmy is against the rules in itself. I meant they would protect him no matter how powerful the opponet he's facing is, as long as, along the way they don't do sth else that does break the rule
Yes, and why does it matter that we do?
You accept that rule when it gives the characters a resistance and you don't when it gives them a limitation. Since Crocker couldn't effect those magical items that would be a limit to his own/Wanda's magic
It's something he can do and has done so before, he had the book from off-screen and it could have been a normal book affected by magic.
U saying he used his wand off screen?
 

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It's gonna take a while, Fireld doesn't stop asking things.
It was written in the offical part of Da Rules list, not the fan made section
What they have as offical are still fanmade interpretations of rules of Da Rules and other unrelated limitations, it's so unprofessional they have the time to have in fanmade rules below it.
Besides that it was meant to show how powerful and important the brownies were and why they couldn't just be created/summoned with magic. A somewhat simular case to the magic muffin. (Suprisngly both were baked by Jorgen)
The muffin has resistance to magic as later difined by Timmy as something all magical items have, and yet Cosmo could affect the muffin when he fixed the world the first time, they just couldn't wish it back to Timmy.

If a normal fairy can't do to this things what not even Jorgen has then it doesn't matter Tier wise for this thread.
Like using it for vs debating
Dude, you had just proved that the regular thing magical beings couldn't get out of was made by other magical beings, thereby making it thing they couldn't get out of magical too, it's a clear waste of time to bring false limits and weaknesses like that, let alone in a show that has so many easily dismissible ones.
WHAT? I didn't mean them protecting Timmy is against the rules in itself. I meant they would protect him no matter how powerful the opponet he's facing is, as long as, along the way they don't do sth else that does break the rule
It's redundant to say "they will try to do something as long as they don't go beyond what they can't do", it was poorly structured unless you meant they could easily come across something that would break Da Rules.
You accept that rule when it gives the characters a resistance and you don't when it gives them a limitation. Since Crocker couldn't effect those magical items that would be a limit to his own/Wanda's magic
We accept rules that are legit and in the way that they're proven to work, they can't use Death Manip on humans, they can't mess up their bodies to have them beat up or mutilated while they feal the pain of it, they can't separate true love, but they can kill others in dozens upon dozens of other ways, same with harming others, they were shown to cut bodies if they make it so that the target doesn't feel pain, and they can affect someone feeling true love in any way via magic, which is not the same as separating it from whatever it loves, etc. The wording used makes it so that it's a resistance to magic rather than a limit to magic, and it can wear off with enough hits.
U saying he used his wand off screen?
The show always portrays using wands as what gives faireis their magic, regardless of how that's objectively not the case, it doesn't matter if he created the book, buy it or it's a normal book, the easier thing to claim is that it needs his wand for it.
 
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What they have as offical are still fanmade interpretations of rules of Da Rules and other unrelated limitations, it's so unprofessional they have the time to have in fanmade rules below it.
So, this wiki is fanmade too. Also this hasn't stopped in other verses to get links from their respective show wiki as evidence here. Like Najimi Ajimu's page having her manga's wiki linked for 1 of her AP's reasoning.
The muffin has resistance to magic as later difined by Timmy as something all magical items have, and yet Cosmo could affect the muffin when he fixed the world the first time, they just couldn't wish it back to Timmy.

If a normal fairy can't do to this things what not even Jorgen has then it doesn't matter Tier wise for this thread.
Barely effected the muffin, it was in Crocker's hand both before & after Cosmo's wish granting. Couldn't the magic brownies have the same resistance the muffin has?

Why u bringing up Tiers? Didn't we already leave behind the topic of Jorgen's magic not being more powerful of that of other fairies?
Dude, you had just proved that the regular thing magical beings couldn't get out of was made by other magical beings, thereby making it thing they couldn't get out of magical too, it's a clear waste of time to bring false limits and weaknesses like that, let alone in a show that has so many easily dismissible ones.
We accept rules that are legit and in the way that they're proven to work, they can't use Death Manip on humans, they can't mess up their bodies to have them beat up or mutilated while they feal the pain of it, they can't separate true love, but they can kill others in dozens upon dozens of other ways, same with harming others, they were shown to cut bodies if they make it so that the target doesn't feel pain, and they can affect someone feeling true love in any way via magic, which is not the same as separating it from whatever it loves, etc. The wording used makes it so that it's a resistance to magic rather than a limit to magic, and it can wear off with enough hits.
When did i even call the monster vaccum cleaner "a regular thing"? It was another example of magical/superpowerful object giving them trouble. I said it myself it was made by magical creatures(it falls in a simular case to the magical gifts)
I still don't see why it can't be both a resistance & a limit to magic or how it being a being false limit when it's shown multiple times. The magic gifts resist Wanda's magic(resistance for them), Wanda magic can't effect them(limit to her); it goes hand in hand.
The show always portrays using wands as what gives faireis their magic, regardless of how that's objectively not the case, it doesn't matter if he created the book, buy it or it's a normal book, the easier thing to claim is that it needs his wand for it.
Wouldn't stuff like them doing magic with a snap of fingers fall in the same category too?
 

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So, this wiki is fanmade too. Also this hasn't stopped in other verses to get links from their respective show wiki as evidence here. Like Najimi Ajimu's page having her manga's wiki linked for 1 of her AP's reasoning.
This is bad logic. Yes we're not affiliated with what we index, that's no discovery. Link other wikis as evidence is pretty lazy for us to do, but if we evaluate that the claims in other wiki are legit then it would at least be the same as claiming it ourselves. You have no reason to take it in a black and white way and think that if we use other wikis then we can always do it, it's obviously a matter of what's being claimed, nor would all wikis being fanmade make them all wrong, if you have any actual reason as to why we do something wrong then we hear. But please do not derail this thread needlessly, make your own thread.
Barely effected the muffin, it was in Crocker's hand both before & after Cosmo's wish granting. Couldn't the magic brownies have the same resistance the muffin has?
I don't think this matters for anything in this thread, I don't see what would this make us move forward towards.
Why u bringing up Tiers? Didn't we already leave behind the topic of Jorgen's magic not being more powerful of that of other fairies?
You didn't make it clear on what you said.
When did i even call the monster vaccum cleaner "a regular thing"? It was another example of magical/superpowerful object giving them trouble. I said it myself it was made by magical creatures(it falls in a simular case to the magical gifts)
I still don't see why it can't be both a resistance & a limit to magic or how it being a being false limit when it's shown multiple times. The magic gifts resist Wanda's magic(resistance for them), Wanda magic can't effect them(limit to her); it goes hand in hand.
You implied it as it's otherwise something utterly pointless. Their own magic creating something that stops them isn't a showing of a "superpowerful object giving them trouble", you can't equialize superpowerful things in fiction as a whole to be able to do the same as they lack the feats to do so on FOP's level of magic, it's clearly downplay.

Make your own thread if you want the resistance to magic to also be a weakness, or anything not talked about in this thread.
Wouldn't stuff like them doing magic with a snap of fingers fall in the same category too?
That's magic w/o his wand, but it doesn't matter as a whole because he has been portrayed as powerless w/o his wand.
 
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This is bad logic. Yes we're not affiliated with what we index, that's no discovery. Link other wikis as evidence is pretty lazy for us to do, but if we evaluate that the claims in other wiki are legit then it would at least be the same as claiming it ourselves. You have no reason to take it in a black and white way and think that if we use other wikis then we can always do it, it's obviously a matter of what's being claimed, nor would all wikis being fanmade make them all wrong, if you have any actual reason as to why we do something wrong then we hear.
So u saying the Da Rules from the FOP wiki were linked here for years out of laziness and weren't evaluated before your thread/blog? I've saying what I think is wrong on the other points (for this case)
You implied it as it's otherwise something utterly pointless. Their own magic creating something that stops them isn't a showing of a "superpowerful object giving them trouble", you can't equialize superpowerful things in fiction as a whole to be able to do the same as they lack the feats to do so on FOP's level of magic, it's clearly downplay.
Like the resistance to magic, so would the limit to magic specificaly mention about the Magic in verse
That's magic w/o his wand, but it doesn't matter as a whole because he has been portrayed as powerless w/o his wand.
Since he still needs have his wand for that it should be w/his wand then. If sb makes a match and decides to restrict his wand, wouldn't they mistake that he would be able to use that ability without his wand around
But please do not derail this thread needlessly, make your own thread.
Make your own thread if you want the resistance to magic to also be a weakness, or anything not talked about in this thread.
I doubt I will. Lack of time, losing interest, the fact that threads I make,barely get any attention. Besides you, there's barely anyone (if any) who argues about the show
It's gonna take a while, Fireld doesn't stop asking things.
@Ant I believe from my point of view that I clarified the doubts about Jorgen and other stuff and that the conclusion should be to apply what I proposed, but it would be better if others were to say so.
It's not just me asking questions. It's also the fact that the others have stopped responding(like in thread linked in the beginning). Anyway I'm unfollowing the thread.
 

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If you do your own thread then remember to add the "The Fairly Oddparents!" tag to it, otherwise it's going to be in a vacuum.

----

@Everyone I finished explaining here the Plot Manip accepted in this thread, so I'm gonna add it now that's properly evidenced.
 

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You can ask a few calc group members to help you out if you wish.
 
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