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Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: Universe level Upgrade

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Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann
Attack Potency & Durability

Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann now has an updated version of the calc used for its AP now, here. It seems to have been accepted, that SGGL will now become Universe level. To clear any possible misconceptions, SGGL isn’t Universe level, only with this attack, because this attack has been pulled off with the spiral power that runs it. Therefore, any other attacks would also be 3-A

Edit: Leyte also said later on, against their fight with the Ashtanga, that before Simon performed the Super Galaxy Giga Drill Break, he was hanging in there for a long time, and that he could finally cut loose if he wants. So, the Mega Vortex Maelstrom Cannon wasn’t him “cutting loose” at that time

Range
This mecha will be given a range of Thousands of Kilometers, shown in the calc that SGGL is a bit smaller than the Ashtanga which is about 16,000 KM. High Complex Multiversal via the Mega Vortex Maelstrom Cannon, as seen in the calc, the SGGL hit 10^68 Ashtanga in every space-time and dimensions, throughout the past and future simultaneously. There’s already a cosmology blog that explains TTGL’s High 1-C cosmological structure

Speed
Immeasurable reactions should also be removed, because the attack isn’t transcendent of time by nature, and requires hax to pull it off

Boota
This is insane, but believe me, I was also shocked, learning that Boota may very well be Universe level as well (of course not to the extent SGGL is). Let’s see how

On this website which holds one of Hiroyuki Imaishi’s interviews, he says this

あのクライマックスを見ると、つまりシモン自身がグレンラガンなんだ、という事が分かりますよね。

今石 そうですね。

メカも合体もいらない、体ひとつでいいんだ、と。今石 どうしてもそうなっちゃうんですよね。やっぱり、シモン自身に力があるという話になっちゃったから。螺旋力というのはロボットから出ているんじゃなくて、シモンから出ているんだという話になった時点で、そういう落とし方にしかならない。ロボット自体は増幅器でしかないから。

"When you see the climax, you can see that Simon himself is Gurren Lagann, isn't he?

Imaishi: That's right. You don't need a mecha, you don't need to combine, you just need one body.

Imaishi: I can't help but feel that way. Because Simon himself has the power. The Spiral Power doesn't come from the robot, but from Simon, and that's the only way to drop it. The robot itself is just an amplifier."


Simon himself is Gurren Lagann, he’s the one with the power, which would mean that anyone who has mastered Spiral Power, are capable are being equally as powerful outside of the mecha in which they insert their power into

Another really good example that supports this is Lordgenome on his own being capable of fighting equally with Lagann, which destroyed Lazengann, the gunman Lordgenome pilots


The warriors powering Gurren Lagann, Arc-Gurren Lagann and Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann; Simon and Boota. They are the ones who both give this awesome power to the SGGL. Boota is half of what powers it, therefore he is half of the results of the calc SGGL was given

In episode 26, it has been revealed that Boota is capable of releasing spiral power on his own, without the need for a gunman


Conclusion
Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann:
Tier: 3-A
Attack Potency & Durability: Universe level
Range:
Thousands of Kilometers, High Complex Multiversal via Mega Vortex Maelstrom Cannon (Hit at least 10^68 Ashtanga in every space-time and dimensions, from the near past to the near future, simultaneously)

Boota (Pigmole Form):
Tier:
3-A
Attack Potency & Durability: Universe level
(Is one half of what powers Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann, along with Simon. He is capable of releasing his spiral power, without the use of gunmen. It has been shown and stated, that those who have mastered spiral power, are just as powerful outside of the gunmen. Nullified The Anti-Spiral’s energy shot, by discharging spiral power)

Boota (Evolution Form):
Tier: 3-A
Attack Potency & Durability: Universe level
(Significantly more powerful than before, after absorbing much of Lordgenome’s spiral power)
 
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The range for SGGL would be High Complex Multiversal since it can strikes to any points of time, universes, and dimensions. 3-A SGGL I agree, but the rest I'm not entirely sure, so I won't touch that.

Edit: We shouldn't consider that Anti-Spiral nullifying feat for Boota, either an outlier or the Anti-Spiral were holding back, if it's the latter then the feat is unquantifiable.
 
The range for SGGL would be High Complex Multiversal since it can strikes to any points of time, universes, and dimensions
How is it a High 1-C range feat?
We shouldn't consider that Anti-Spiral nullifying feat for Boota, either an outlier or the Anti-Spiral were holding back, if it's the latter then the feat is unquantifiable.
Yeah, it’s pretty much an unquantifiable feat, which means we can’t know for sure if it’s an outlier or not, and that we don’t know how much the Anti-Spiral actually held back, so I guess it will be removed

Edit: the part where it says Boota discharged spiral power at the anti-spiral’s energy shot was just to show that Boota is capable of releasing this spiral power without a gunman
 
The range for SGGL would be High Complex Multiversal since it can strikes to any points of time, universes, and dimensions. 3-A SGGL I agree, but the rest I'm not entirely sure, so I won't touch that.
Shouldn't that qualify for Immeasurable Speed or nah?

Agree on OP.
 
How is it a High 1-C range feat?
This
"[Possible space-time simultaneous firing][Special Move / Episode 26] A Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann's "Mega-Vortex Cannon" and "Maelstrom Cannon" is an all-gun attack that fires probability fluctuation bullets. Artor an immeasurable number of enemies in every space-time and dimensions from the near past to the near future."
 
I thought it's range is interdiemnsional? Would dimensions mean universe in Thai context? If so I feel Low Multiverse level is better than Multiverse level range.

Neutral on boota, I dunno whether or not powering it means getting the AP
 
I thought it's range is interdiemnsional? Would dimensions mean universe in Thai context? If so I feel Low Multiverse level is better than Multiverse level range.

Neutral on boota, I dunno whether or not powering it means getting the AP
The context means all the observed spacetime and dimensions in the multiverse, so not exactly.

Source
"Spiral Wave Detection Monitor [Mecha/Machine - Episode 23] Popular name, Spiral radar. It is connected to the Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren's Spiral space transcendence machine and hyper Spiral computer, and explores all dimensions and space-time. It is possible to track what has been recognized once and detect its location. It traced the ring of Nia and discovered an isolated universe between the 10 dimensional universe and 11 dimensional universe where the Anti-Spiral is hidden."
 
The context means all the observed spacetime and dimensions in the multiverse, so not exactly.

Source
"Spiral Wave Detection Monitor [Mecha/Machine - Episode 23] Popular name, spiral radar. It is connected to the Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren's Spiral space transcendence machine and hyper spiral computer, and explores all dimensions and space-time. It is possible to track what has been recognized once and detect its location. It traced the ring of Nia and discovered an isolated universe between the 10 dimensional universe and 11 dimensional universe where the Anti-Spiral is hidden."
Wouldn't that be 2-A range then?
 
I would say Immeasurable speed with prep since it can attack across time, but I'm not really that care on that regard for now.
It should never been given immeasurable for that reason, the attack is literally 3D by nature, and the use of hax to travel throughout time is just part of what makes the attack what it is in the first place
 
It should never been given immeasurable for that reason, the attack is literally 3D by nature, and the use of hax to travel throughout time is just part of what makes the attack what it is in the first place
You can be Immeasurable with hax, Immeasurable with X or Immeasurable with Y as examples. Also, Immeasurable doesn't really have anything to do with dimensional numbers, the very idea of Immeasurable is to make time as undefined and to have movement beyond linear time, you can also be 1D and Immeasurable.

Like I said, I'm not really care about that either so do what you like.
 
You can be Immeasurable with hax, Immeasurable with X or Immeasurable with Y as examples. Also Immeasurable doesn't really have anything to do with dimensional numbers, the very idea of Immeasurable is to make time as undefined and to have movement beyond linear time, you can also be 1D and Immeasurable
Seriously? I already know that having a certain amount of dimensions doesn’t mean immeasurable automatically. That’s why I say “it’s not transcendent of time” instead of “it’s not at least 4D”. All of us already know that the 3rd dimension in TTGL is a spatial dimension that isn’t transcendent of time and/or not temporal. Also, the argument that “you can be x” is not a good enough argument, it can be the use of hax or pure speed, in this case there isn’t enough proof that this attack is transcendent of time, and would just equate to an attack that can time travel or dimension travel
 
Seriously? I already know that having a certain amount of dimensions doesn’t mean immeasurable automatically. That’s why I say “it’s not transcendent of time” instead of “it’s not at least 4D”. All of us already know that the 3rd dimension in TTGL is a spatial dimension that isn’t transcendent of time and/or not temporal. Also, the argument that “you can be x” is not a good enough argument, it can be the use of hax or pure speed, in this case there isn’t enough proof that this attack is transcendent of time, and would just equate to an attack that can time travel or dimension travel
Who told you that you have to be a complete 1-dimensional transcendent to time in order to be Immeasurable? And who told you that ones can't be Immeasurable without multiple temporal dimensions being presented?

Rimuru got Immeasurable speed with Time Warp before, via hax, and the very reason it was removed, was because it's no longer adequate to Immeasurable speed standards.
 
So it’s not high 1-C, it’s still 2-B
Even by your logic that Multiversal range isn't justifiable, Universal+ range already consisted the entire timeline from the very past to the very future, so 10^68 doesn't make it suddenly anything more to Universal+. High Complex Multiversal is correct, you don't need to bust the whole High 1-C cosmology in order to earned it, also SGGL explicitly can attack to "all" or "every" targets.
 
Who told you that you have to be a complete 1-dimensional transcendent to time in order to be Immeasurable? And who told you that ones can't be Immeasurable without multiple temporal dimensions being presented?
But that is how it works. The only reason immeasurable movement for TTGL god tiers were rejected was because of the statement that transcending time and space wasn’t good enough for immeasurable. But having good enough context of a character’s transcendence above time is good enough for immeasurable. And when did I say anything about multiple temporal dimensions? I never mentioned anything about that
Rimuru got Immeasurable speed with Time Warp before, via hax, and the very reason it was removed, was because it's no longer adequate to Immeasurable speed standards.
It is unprofessional to use one character to suddenly make another character being the same thing with hax, as a point at all
Even by your logic that Multiversal range isn't justifiable, Universal+ range already consisted the entire timeline from the very past to the very future, so 10^68 doesn't make it suddenly anything more to Universal+. High Complex Multiversal is correct, you don't need to bust the whole High 1-C cosmology in order to earned it, also SGGL explicitly can attack to "all" or "every" targets.
Alright, then it’s universal+ range. I don’t see how it’s High Complex Multiversal just because of the cosmology of the verse. Because of the multiverse being 11D, doesn’t mean that SGGL actually reached the 11D portion of the multiverse
 
But that is how it works. The only reason immeasurable movement for TTGL god tiers were rejected was because of the statement that transcending time and space wasn’t good enough for immeasurable. But having good enough context of a character’s transcendence above time is good enough for immeasurable. And when did I say anything about multiple temporal dimensions? I never mentioned anything about that
Here me out, walking/attack across time can be Immeasurable speed, you don't need "transcending time and space" always to be Immeasurable speed that every requirements for X and Y characters are evaluated case by case. That "transcending time and space" statement also was a bad example since it had nothing to do with SGGL's cannon, and means to have the power of the multiverse in-context. If multiple temporal dimensions ain't even talk here then I don't understand why would you brought up that temporal dimension or 3D in TTGL are just spatial since being a temporal dimension doesn't make one Immeasurable, either.

It is unprofessional to use one character to suddenly make another character being the same thing with hax, as a point at all'
So what is a good counter against "they aren't Immeasurable because they are just hax"?

Alright, then it’s universal+ range. I don’t see how it’s High Complex Multiversal just because of the cosmology of the verse. Because of the multiverse being 11D, doesn’t mean that SGGL actually reached the 11D portion of the multiverse
Lmfao but they already reached that, how do you think they reached the Anti-Spiral's dimension? And why "all dimensions and space-time" is being ignored here? Even Dark Dragon Medeus said High Complex Multiversal range if it ain't Immeasurable speed.

Edit: Like I said, I careless regarding this fuckery so why would you derail this long?
 
@BluudyManikin777 I'm pretty sure the argument for MMVC was never it transcending time but it moving through time.

That being said, if you can get immeasurable with hax and is something the wiki allows then it could probably stay, it just needs to be reworded. However no one else should scale to this and it scales purely to the MMVC's attack speed.

I imagining something like "Immeasurable attack speed with the Mega Maelstorm Vortex Cannon".
 
Here me out, walking/attack across time can be Immeasurable speed, you don't need "transcending time and space" always to be Immeasurable speed that every requirements for X and Y characters are evaluated case by case. That "transcending time and space" statement also was a bad example since it had nothing to do with SGGL's cannon, and means to have the power of the multiverse in-context. If multiple temporal dimensions ain't even talk here then I don't understand why would you brought up that temporal dimension since being a temporal dimension doesn't make one Immeasurable, either.
Oh yeah, it CAN be, but in this case it’s not, there’s not enough proof that this attack moves throughout time with sheer speed. And you have to be kidding me AGAIN. I did not use the space-time transcendence because it relates to SGGL, I used it to debunk a misconception that being fully transcendent of time (with good proof obviously) is immeasurable, because of the time portion of the velocity formula, unidentifiable.
So what is a good counter against "they aren't Immeasurable because they are just hax"?
An exception would be an ability that can accelerate your speed like “Superhuman, Massively FTL+ via insert speed accelerating hax” Think of it this way, traveling through time with time travel, sure you’d travel throughout time, but without it, you’re really not that fast, without it you’re as slow as us. But traveling through time with sheer speed, you can move through time as if it was second nature, moving as naturally as us, by just living. In SGGL’s case, there’s no good proof it travels through time on a whim
And why "all dimensions and space-time" is being ignored here? Even Dark Dragon Medeus said High Complex Multiversal range if it ain't Immeasurable speed.
It’s not being ignored, I just want to be careful about how we use this statement, but if it’s accepted, High 1-C range it is then
 
@BluudyManikin777 I'm pretty sure the argument for MMVC was never it transcending time but it moving through time.

That being said, if you can get immeasurable with hax and is something the wiki allows then it could probably stay, it just needs to be reworded. However no one else should scale to this and it scales purely to the MMVC's attack speed.

I imagining something like "Immeasurable attack speed with the Mega Maelstorm Vortex Cannon".
Like I said, if it’s a hax that accelerates things to such speeds, in this case the attack doesn’t even have good enough evidence that it moves that fast on a whim
 
Oh yeah, it CAN be, but in this case it’s not, there’s not enough proof that this attack moves throughout time with sheer speed. And you have to be kidding me AGAIN. I did not use the space-time transcendence because it relates to SGGL, I used it to debunk a misconception that being fully transcendent of time (with good proof obviously) is immeasurable, because of the time portion of the velocity formula, unidentifiable.
It was using a sheer speed unless if you're using that "portal" argument again which is asinine, since there is no way you could portray an attack that hitting targets regardless of their locality and temporality without some space effects being distorted or something like that. Even the dimensions travelling from SGDG/SGGL were using sheer speeds, like how we could see SGDG/SGGL were traversing through stars and galaxies in time rather than randomly jump with teleportation or warp, but because we don't know if it's combat applicable we just assumed it as a dimensional travel with Spiral radar.
Then I seriously have no idea why would you assumed there is a misconception here since I never said that you can be Immeasurable with space-time transcendence (which I think they can if it's a 1-dimensional transcendence anyway), you're the one who brought it up on the first place for the reason that you said they aren't Immeasurable just because they don't transcend the time dimension.

An exception would be an ability that can accelerate your speed like “Superhuman, Massively FTL+ via insert speed accelerating hax” Think of it this way, traveling through time with time travel, sure you’d travel throughout time, but without it, you’re really not that fast, without it you’re as slow as us. But traveling through time with sheer speed, you can move through time as if it was second nature, moving as naturally as us, by just living. In SGGL’s case, there’s no good proof it travels through time on a whim
Since when Rimuru's Time Warp accelerates Rimuru's base speed? What's up with your professional line of reasoning if you can't even follow the crude example of mine as an instance? Rimuru got his Immeasurable revoked anyway (although with different reasons) so I'll leave it for fair sake. But think about this way, an X arrow from a bow which capable to travel in no time would be infinite speed, regardless the arrow ain't coming from you or just acted as a weapon, we still count it as Infinite with X arrow in your speed section. For SGGL, it would be Immeasurable with MMVC since it capable to travel across time regardless time or place, every place, in infinite multiverse which is 11-dimensional including the past and future.

It’s not being ignored, I just want to be careful about how we use this statement, but if it’s accepted, High 1-C range it is then
It's already a blatant High Complex Multiversal range for given statements so it definitely should be, funny is, DDM even said it way before any of these VSB guys were aware of the databooks.

Also like I said, I give no **** about this Immeasurable MMVC, I ain't even insisting at all, this would be the last reply on regard to that (I already made TTGL profiles in TSW anyway).
 
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It was using a sheer speed unless if you're using that "portal" argument again which is asinine, since there is no way you could portray an attack that hitting targets regardless of their locality and temporality without some space effects being distorted or something like that. Even the dimensions travelling from SGDG/SGGL were using sheer speeds, like how we could see SGDG/SGGL were traversing through stars and galaxies in time rather than randomly jump with teleportation or warp, but because we don't know if it's combat applicable we just assumed it as a dimensional travel with Spiral radar.
Then I seriously have no idea why would you assumed there is a misconception here since I never said that you can be Immeasurable with space-time transcendence (which I think they can if it's a 1-dimensional transcendence anyway), you're the one who brought it up on the first place for the reason that you said they aren't Immeasurable just because they don't transcend the time dimension.
There’s still not good enough proof that it moves through time on a whim
Since when Rimuru's Time Warp accelerates Rimuru's base speed? What's up with your professional line of reasoning if you can't even follow the crude example of mine as an instance? Rimuru got his Immeasurable revoked anyway (although with different reasons) so I'll leave it for fair sake. But think about this way, an X arrow from a bow which capable to travel in no time would be infinite speed, regardless the arrow ain't coming from you or just acted as a weapon, we still count it as Infinite with X arrow in your speed section. For SGGL, it would be Immeasurable with MMVC since it capable to travel across time regardless time or place, every place, in infinite multiverse which is 11-dimensional including the past and future.
No time does not equal infinite, because infinite speed still takes time to pull off, just in an infinitesimal amount of time. And like I said, there’s still no good evidence that the attack moves through time on a whim, or is even naturally that fast in the first place. Of course, it’s basically impossible to even make a good portrayal without some spacey effects, or to make something look like it actually goes that fast in the first place. We can’t say that it isn’t that fast, but we also can’t say for sure that it is that fast as well
 
Agree with it being universal and the amendment of Boota to unknown, neutral on downgrading the attack speed via a certain technique/hax/prep
 
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