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Stat equalization Tournament for the Undead Round 5! (Revenant vs Bonetail) (4-0-0)
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Poor Bonetail.
Revenant:
Standard Equipment: Twin shoulder-mounted rocket launchers | Twin Multiple Launch Rocket Batteries outfitted with mobility boosters
Range: Extended melee range physically (due to their size), likely hundreds of meters with missiles | Standard melee range physically, likely hundreds of meters with missiles
Bonetail:
Range: Standard melee range, several meters with breath attacks
Does the Revenant attack at a distance in-character?
Does the "missiles" its range refer to mean the Twin Multiple Launch Rocket Batteries outfitted with mobility boosters its Standard Equipment has?
How many missiles does it have?
Revenant:
Standard Equipment: Twin shoulder-mounted rocket launchers | Twin Multiple Launch Rocket Batteries outfitted with mobility boosters
Range: Extended melee range physically (due to their size), likely hundreds of meters with missiles | Standard melee range physically, likely hundreds of meters with missiles
Bonetail:
Range: Standard melee range, several meters with breath attacks
Does the Revenant attack at a distance in-character?
Does the "missiles" its range refer to mean the Twin Multiple Launch Rocket Batteries outfitted with mobility boosters its Standard Equipment has?
How many missiles does it have?
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And if approached by an opponent?
Will it move side to side? Back way? Move straight towards them? Move randomly?
The problem for Bonetail is that even in the most generous intepretations of "a few meters" vs "hundreds of meters", Bonetail is outranged by dozens of times & is so big you'd have to LITERALLY be unable to hit the broad side of a barn to miss it.
So whether or not Bonetail can even get into Standard Melee Range to attack the Revenant (Given that Speed is Equalized.) seems relevant here.
(TBH, I wonder if Bonetail can qualify for Extended Melee Range.)
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I'm wondering if this is fair, because of the range. If the Revenant simply moves back, it can constantly stay out of Bonetail's few meters of range just by running. It presumably has a lot of range to do so in the city-like environment of Helltower, unlike the huge Bonetail.
Meanwhile, the Revenant can fire back from anywhere it wants, with its hundreds of meters of range.
Hence why I'm wondering if it has tactics where it'll move away from Bonetail.
Meanwhile, the Revenant can fire back from anywhere it wants, with its hundreds of meters of range.
Hence why I'm wondering if it has tactics where it'll move away from Bonetail.
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I see. I forget how Bonetail's AI works, besides that it heals at certain HP thresholds. (But if we're going by the numbers, healing 20 out of 200 HP isn't very consequential. Especially seeing that Bonetail only does it twice, & IDK if Bonetail can or will heal more often than that.)
If the Revenant is within a few meters & Bonetail chooses to do so, its breath attacks have a few possible effects:
From the Mario Wiki:
Dangerous Breath (8, Piercing; sleep (white), confusion (green), shrunk (purple), frozen (blue)),
This might be game mechanics, but:
Unlike Paper Mario, some enemies in this game do have defense-piercing abilities. Those that do will ignore all Defend Plus and Damage Dodge badges that Mario or his partner have equipped, in addition to the defensive boosts granted by Power Lift, items such as the Courage Shell, Merlee's charm, Koops's shell, or even the Defend tactical command. D-Up, P-Down and D-Down, P-Up badges, however, are not affected, allowing even defense-piercing enemies to do more or less damage than otherwise expected. Also, since enemies can use items in this game, their defense-piercing properties still hold when used against Mario.
https://www.mariowiki.com/Piercing_attack
Even piercing attacks are not unblockable, however; Mario's Guard will still reduce the damage by 1, and the Superguard will prevent all damage, as it always does. Koops's Shell Shield will still absorb damage from these attacks.
All of the dragons (i.e. Hooktail, Gloomtail, Bonetail) (Breath attacks and Gloomtail's Earthquake attack)
https://www.mariowiki.com/Piercing_attack
Even piercing attacks are not unblockable, however; Mario's Guard will still reduce the damage by 1, and the Superguard will prevent all damage, as it always does. Koops's Shell Shield will still absorb damage from these attacks.
All of the dragons (i.e. Hooktail, Gloomtail, Bonetail) (Breath attacks and Gloomtail's Earthquake attack)
IDK if that means Bonetail qualifies for durability negation via breath attacks, nor how many hits it means Bonetail's breath needs to land to defeat the Revenant. (It seems to at least ignore boosts to Defense.)
In gameplay, the statuses have the following effects & all of them last a number of turns:
1. Sleep: The afflicted does nothing, but may wake up after an amount of turns(gameplay?) or when hit by an attack.
2. Confusion, quote the Mario Wiki:
A confused character, whether it be Mario, his partner, or an enemy, has an approximately 50% chance each turn to do something random and unexpected instead of what the player or the enemy's AI told it to do. One can tell a character is about to do something unusual if there is an extra-long pause before it acts. Possible results include:
Mario or his partner may attack each other with a basic attack which is not Action Commanded (such as a jump, hammer, or no-FP move), which the player cannot Guard or Superguard.
Mario or his partner may use the Defend, Appeal, or Run Away actions.
Mario or his partner may switch to a random partner. This move ignores the Quick Change badge if Mario has it equipped, so in effect, ending their turn.
Enemies may attack each other, or use healing moves or items on Mario and/or his partner. If an enemy is alone and attempts to attack an ally in confusion (or it cannot reach its ally), it simply does nothing.
Mario or his partner may attack each other with a basic attack which is not Action Commanded (such as a jump, hammer, or no-FP move), which the player cannot Guard or Superguard.
Mario or his partner may use the Defend, Appeal, or Run Away actions.
Mario or his partner may switch to a random partner. This move ignores the Quick Change badge if Mario has it equipped, so in effect, ending their turn.
Enemies may attack each other, or use healing moves or items on Mario and/or his partner. If an enemy is alone and attempts to attack an ally in confusion (or it cannot reach its ally), it simply does nothing.
So half the time, the Revenant would, instead of doing what it intends to do, might just assume a Defensive stance, maybe do the equivalent of appealing/waving to an audience, or trying to retreat, attempting to use any healing stuff it has on Bonetail, change allies, or use a basic attack on Bonetail.
3. Shrunken enemies are smaller, obviously. It also reduces their attack power, & makes their voice & sound effects higher. In TTYD, the game Bonetail is from, the Shrink affect reduces ATK by 2, whatever the equivalent of that is. In the original Paper Mario game (Which Bonetail isn't in.), being Shrunk halves Attack Power.
4. Frozen. Encases the afflicted in a hexagonal chunk of ice the victim's size for a few turns. In gameplay, 1 damage is dealt when the ice breaks at the end of the duration. Attacks that can inflict burns do not burn frozen characters, & instead cure the freezing effects. Surprisingly, Bonetail does not seem to HAVE a breath attack that can inflict a burn.
Of course, all those details about breath attacks are only relevant if they actually hit, which requires being a few meters from Bonetail's face. Speed is equalized, though, & Bonetail can presumably turn or pivot.
So yeah, if Bonetail lands a breath attack, it's devastating, possibly game-winning, & if the Revenant does approach in-character, that might mean Bonetail can win.
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I don't think the description indicates durability circumvention.
Sleep is a guaranteed hit, but otherwise not too bad.
Confusion sounds pretty bearable. Like, even if the 50% happens, in a 1-on-1 fight the action taken appears generally still beneficial. Like, running away is probably good for Revenant.
Shrunken is negative in the attack decrease, however, it does in turn probably make Revenant harder to hit (even if game mechanics don't account for that).
What frozen is concerned: Can Bonetail damage in that state? i feel like, if frozen in a block of ice, it should not be possible to damage the opponent while in it. Just, from a logical perspective.
Bonetail is not smart, so it will likely not exclusively choose the best effect. And by SBA Revenant will have some time before their range becomes short enough for Bonetail to attack. So Revenant can get some damage in before the battle really starts, going in the actual exchange of blows with an advantage.
All in all still leaning to Revenant, though it's close.
Sleep is a guaranteed hit, but otherwise not too bad.
Confusion sounds pretty bearable. Like, even if the 50% happens, in a 1-on-1 fight the action taken appears generally still beneficial. Like, running away is probably good for Revenant.
Shrunken is negative in the attack decrease, however, it does in turn probably make Revenant harder to hit (even if game mechanics don't account for that).
What frozen is concerned: Can Bonetail damage in that state? i feel like, if frozen in a block of ice, it should not be possible to damage the opponent while in it. Just, from a logical perspective.
Bonetail is not smart, so it will likely not exclusively choose the best effect. And by SBA Revenant will have some time before their range becomes short enough for Bonetail to attack. So Revenant can get some damage in before the battle really starts, going in the actual exchange of blows with an advantage.
All in all still leaning to Revenant, though it's close.
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If you'll forgive my asking, please, what's your reasoning why?
I don't know the exact odds in gameplay, but it's not a guarantee, IIRC. So it may not be "a" hit. In gameplay, it can last for several turns.
Yeah, but standing still in a Defensive stance isn't that good. & arguably, the "flee the fight" possibility of confusion might mean retreat, which could be argued as a forfeit. But I don't consider a Confusion-caused retreat to be a reliable win condition.
In gameplay, frozen enemies can be damaged.
Also, as you're well aware, given you're responding to my bringing it up, Bonetail has 4 kinds of breath attacks. In TTYD, all of these can deal damage when Mario or his partner are encased in ice, & I don't see why those breath attacks would be any different here.
(To say nothing of how a frozen solid enemy should be impervious to Bonetail's bite or stomp attacks.)
Also, from a logical perspective, why should the ice thaw in enough time for the Revenant to resume battling? Even if it does thaw within 24 hours, it'll be over time, thus leaving exposed limbs & other bits to attack.
That is true, but it has more kinds of attacks that are Breath Attacks than not.
(Also, I'm not 100% sure about a reliable source, but I've read that it's like 10% per Breath Attack
Yeah, that's another thing that concerns me about this match; Revenant would start hundreds of meters away, against an opponent who's range tops out at "a few meters", in a Speed Equalized match where the slowest speed is:
Subsonic movement speed. At least Supersonic+ (Faster than before. Comparable to other Demons), potentially higher with jetpacks
Speaking of, which of those is the Revenant's Movement Speed?
& what speed value(s) does it scale to?
Because Subsonic ranges from 34.3 to 171.5 meters per second.
Since, IIRC, we Equalize to the Lower Speed, the combatants starting at Revenant's range of "Range: Extended melee range physically (due to their size), likely hundreds of meters with missiles | Standard melee range physically, likely hundreds of meters with missiles" means it could easily be several seconds before Bonetail could approach, even if the Revenant DIDN'T put any distance between them.
If it's dumb enough to get within a few meters of Bonetail, it's in trouble. Will it understand it should avoid Bonetail after an attack hits it, or will this zombie zoner mindlessly continue its usual tactics?
Would it stay away form the start?
Good to know.
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I haven't played eternal but in DOOM 2016 Revenants tended to jump around with their boosters back, forth, left and right while spamming missiles, even flying up in the air out of melee range to shoot missiles down at you from there. They only ever did melee if you were close to them (well on rare occasions they would sprint up to you and try and swipe at you lol).
Also revenants have guided rockets too as stated in the profile that are stated to be near impossible to dodge without taking cover.
Also revenants have guided rockets too as stated in the profile that are stated to be near impossible to dodge without taking cover.
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I'll also vote revenant then, to advance this.
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Yeah, if the Revenant's not going to be a few meters from Bonetail's face very often, Bonetail is practically a sitting duck. & a very big duck in a city that probably feels very small for it.
IMHO, the circumstances are a bit unfavorable for Bonetail, for example; Besides that SBA puts them far too far away for Bonetail to land a hit without spending time approaching, it's dubious if it has room to turn around &/or evade, if it wanted to.
There is an arguable case that Bonetail should be able to fly, based on dialogue from Grifty, but we don't know if it can or will; Bonetail is only moving seemingly for being undead, & spent the last millennium 100 floors deep into a torture chamber, in a room that hardly fit it & gave it little incentive to fly. Coupled with Bonetail's seemingly low intelligence & Mario fighting it on the ground....
To Bonetail's credit, the living Hooktail may be its sibling & Hooktail can fly, but Hooktail is also far less skeletonized; For all I know, the means to fly have atrophied or decayed away for Bonetail.
Anyway, if the circumstances are to be as is, I'm also voting for the Revenant.
IMHO, the circumstances are a bit unfavorable for Bonetail, for example; Besides that SBA puts them far too far away for Bonetail to land a hit without spending time approaching, it's dubious if it has room to turn around &/or evade, if it wanted to.
There is an arguable case that Bonetail should be able to fly, based on dialogue from Grifty, but we don't know if it can or will; Bonetail is only moving seemingly for being undead, & spent the last millennium 100 floors deep into a torture chamber, in a room that hardly fit it & gave it little incentive to fly. Coupled with Bonetail's seemingly low intelligence & Mario fighting it on the ground....
To Bonetail's credit, the living Hooktail may be its sibling & Hooktail can fly, but Hooktail is also far less skeletonized; For all I know, the means to fly have atrophied or decayed away for Bonetail.
Anyway, if the circumstances are to be as is, I'm also voting for the Revenant.
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