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Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends - Episode II

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Hey, did any of you people have read a relatively new legends material called "Supernatural Encounters: The Trial and Transformation of Arhul Hextrophon" It is a novella that adds alot of stuff and the entire read is a mindscrew. It pretty much adds a multiverse to Star Wars and that one of the Bedlam spirits created Disneyverse. As for it being licensed and approved legends material, yes it is according to this facebook post by the author of the novella:

https://www.facebook.com/starwarstimeline/posts/2299148380171506
 
I think that's what Everlasting and Matt were planning to go over.
 
The Ones according to the Supernatural Encounters are Celestials and that the Bedlam Spirits are the spawns of a Celestial named Wutzek and that Splendid Ap created a whole new universe what we known today as the Disneyverse, this makes the Bedlam Spirits actually universal. In the later chapters of the book, it's completely clear that the Celestials can fight off the Bedlam Spirits. This means that the Ones are actually universal.
 
These two paragraphs from the said novella would prove the existence of a multiverse in Star Wars.

(((Cue-nyne then pointed to what was a clear depiction of four eggs, a motif that ran throughout the earliest pictographs in this section of pillars. "Now take a look." Cue-nyne pressed down on the glyph above the eggs, and a hologrammatic representation appeared, depicting a much larger scene. "The cosmic eggs at the center of the universe. Note the shapes. Look familiar?"

"That's a close approximation of our galaxy," I said. "But what are all these over here?"

"Judging by their size in relation to the main one, I'd say they're other universes."

"Don't you mean other galaxies?" I asked.

"No," Cue-nyne said decidedly. "Here are our satellite galaxies. They're much smaller. These are much larger. The indication appears to be that this is the creation of this universe."

"That's interesting. What's this dark shadow over here? It looks like the echo of a galaxy."

"I think that's where we are," the droid said.

"Otherspace… And these figures standing over there above the universe. The symbol here is the same one the Osserians use to depict the Celestials. So, they're indicating that these beings seeded the center of this universe with what? Cosmic Eggs? I don't know, Cue-nyne, I have to admit I'm a little disappointed to see this kind of primitive mythology represented here. I supposed I thought they'd have a more advanced record of what happened. Apart from the high level of art and technology, this is just more of the same."

"I thought you'd say that," the droid chimed a little too merrily. "That's why I didn't show you the first three pillars. They provide the context, and I think once you read them you'll see everything a little differently."))) -Supernatural Encounters: The Trial and Transformation of Arhul Hextrophon

((("So, this is an earlier world," I surmised

"An earlier universe, to be more precise."

"A parallel dimension, like Otherspace?"

"No, Otherspace is a pocket dimension within our galaxy, and there are potentially others; but this isn't just a pocket dimension," Cue-nyne pointed out, "It's the primary universe from which all these others extend. All of these spheres represent universes, and all of them emanate from a single source."

"The fishbowl?" I asked.

"I suppose that is what it looks like, but yes, that would be the Prime Universe. Ours appears to be here, just one of many spheres."

"But we're the Prime Universe…"

"Apparently not," said the droid, as if surprised himself. "All of the later action takes place on this sphere. Nothing further is depicted of the Prime Universe in any of the later pillars, suggesting..."

"… that the Osserians are concerned with life in this universe. So, the dragon here is the cycle of life and death? Suffering and destruction? Above it again is the symbol of the Force. And these figures here, to the right of the world… they're the same as the deities we saw creating life on the fourth pillar, the Celestials, presumably. Co-creators?"))) -Supernatural Encounters: The Trial and Transformation of Arhul Hextrophon

TLDR; there's an existence of a Star Wars multiverse. The galaxy we have all known is not even the primary universe, and is but one of countless offshoots
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
I just came from a comicvine thread that said that marka ragnos could solo windu anakin obi wan, and Luke at the same time LMAO
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That got to be one of thre few stupidest thing that I've ever seen. Seriously, though. What's the version of Luke. If it's Post-ROTJ Luke, then that would be even more stupid.
 
i mean, rots anakin mace and obi wan (honestly, any of them could solo bar obi wan in a the force tbh) and rotj luke, who is stronger than starkiller, who prolly dominate korriban by himself
 
Yes. This is official Legends work.

Js250476 said:
Both canon and Legends have a confirmed multiverse.
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And, yes, both Legends and Canon are confirmed to contain multiple universes. There are stories from both Legends and Canon comics that involve beings from other universes.

I remember Star Wars Explained and Eckhartsladder once talking about how Dave Filoni has actually hinted in some interviews that what we now know as Legends is a separate parallel universe to Canon.

Many fans have always speculated as such since 2014 itself (myself included).
 
Zoomed in on this image and took a closer look at Papa Palpatine's face.

He looks more like the Palpatine we see in Rebels Season 4.

Hmm... Since George Lucas was personally involved in the making of TROS, it's quite possible Filoni was also involved.

That'd explain his appearance here.
 
ANormalMetalSheevite said:
Hey, did any of you people have read a relatively new legends material called "Supernatural Encounters: The Trial and Transformation of Arhul Hextrophon" It is a novella that adds alot of stuff and the entire read is a mindscrew. It pretty much adds a multiverse to Star Wars and that one of the Bedlam spirits created Disneyverse. As for it being licensed and approved legends material, yes it is according to this facebook post by the author of the novella:
https://www.facebook.com/starwarstimeline/posts/2299148380171506
Click to expand...
Or the other way around or a third option, if you are referring to the point in the story I think you are.

Because the events where the Bedlam Spirits originally appeared was, if I'm understanding what I'm reading correctly, the reult of Splendid Ap "moving forward" into the projection of time, ending up in a "best-projection" of the future. Their actions there, specifically Ap's, left behind eidolons/"echoes" that resulted in the pocket dimension, instead of disappearing, becoming its own timeline.

But I think we should consider it complete apocrypha due to multiple points I came across, of which two I'll recount as especially glaring:

1.Chapter 16, Songs of the Eternal. Just...All of it. The Supreme Maker is clearly the Christian God; these - Kərub├«m, Ōphann─½m, ┼Üər─üf├«m, and Mal'─ükim - are all ancient names for angels, making the Celestials Biblical Angels; "Erets" and "Nakhash" are Ancient Hebrew for "Earth" and "Serpent" aka. the Devil, respectively.

2. The second half of chapter 19 describes a familiar story, only told with Tilotny's inclusion and transplanting Humans on two two specific worlds - Cobol and New Earth. Twelve worlds are established in an Cyrannis system. A saurian race replaced by their robotic creations that engage in a thousand year war that destroys all but a rag-tag group of Humans which they pursue. The Celestials secretly visiting these two worlds and becoming worshipped as "Beings of Light". They're all elements of the Original Series Battlestar Galactica history. With New Earth becoming Coruscant.

I...Cannot stress enough how much this feels wrong, to me. Can't even put it into words.
 
I'm done with Thrawn: Treason.

I stand by my earlier assessment. This is a 10/10 book.

I can see why many people think it's the weakest book in the trilogy. However, it should be noted that the first book just set a very high bar, and this book does do two things something better: It handles the characters better than Alliances (in my opinion) and does a better job of making the Empire seem like the good guys.

If anyone wants to pick up this book, do it. It was a fantastic read.
 
What do you mean by complete apocryhpa? It's true that the story are filled with some elements that would obviously make people saying "what the ****, did I just read?". I can't see it the justification as to make it apocrypha. TBH, I wanted to see what if Star Wars had an actual multiverse and this is the only story that actually confirms it. I do think that part of the stories are nonsense and some of it don't. I disagreed with the idea of a benevolent monotheistic god on Star Wars, I prefer it would be forever be a mystery. I'd prefer Kreia's views on the Force than that stupid idea.
 
Why it is solely apocrypha is, in part, for the reasons I outlined above. It's not just a "benevolent monotheistic god"; it's explicitly the Christian God.

Furthermore, it directly rips off the original Battlestar Galactica's story for its origin story of Humanity in the Star Wars universe. There are probably even more highly questionable points I could find if I searched a bit more, but I don't think it's worth the effort.

As a personal opinion, considering this novella canon would be the death-knell for the Legends continuity, stripping away the unique nature of the Force in favor of "it comes from God" and ripping off/plagarizing another franchise for part of its own story.

Also, there is one thing I'm curious about: what part of this story makes you think Splendid Ap "created" the Disneyverse, according to this novella?
 
Well this:

"Splendid Ap sought to seal the pocket dimension behind him, but something wasn't quite right. Then he remembered the error! Their actions with the tiny movers would leave behind an echo of them at a projected future moment in time. Even worse, the small bubble that had been the pocket dimension would not cease to exist, as it ought to, but would continue to grow. He, in essence, created a parallel dimension that would begin to develop its own separate history and timeline based on—but apart from—its original. Yet it had no true beginning, save the one he gave it, and its path would follow a different trajectory from the original. Without the investment of the Celestials working on it, developing it into an interwoven fabric, and without even his hand upon it, it would only ever be hollow and sterile, a pale and broken imitation of a far greater thing."

―Supernatural Encounters: The Trial and Transformation of Arhul Hextropho​

The words "Even worse, the small bubble that had been the pocket dimension would not cease to exist, as it ought to, but would continue to grow." meant to represent that Splendid Ap have created a big bang which would grow to be a whole new universe AKA the Disney Canon universe which is further proven by the words "it would only ever be hollow and sterile, a pale and broken imitation of a far greater thing." These words makes a lot of sense, why? Because Disney Canon by many SW fans agreed that it would never reach the same awesomeness as Legends.

I can understand what you're saying but an opinion of a fanbase doesn't change that fact that the novella is of course being both licensed and approved legends material being stated by the author itself. Agreed that the Force should always be kept as a mystery and I don't like how the Force is being benevolent and all of that in the novella, same goes for the main Celestials.
 
Which brings me to a third reason: spite and hypocrisy.

Apparently, the novella author's idea of "getting back at Disney" is to publish a book implying its universe is just "hollow and sterile" and a "broken imitation", which essentially spits on those people who actually like the new canon so far. A new canon that is young compared to the old one and has room to grow.

Then we get into the hypocrisy: the World Between Worlds was a concept introduced in the new canon, yet this author, who has already demonstrated true hollow sterility by plagaring Battlestar for the Human origin story; by forcibly incorporating the Judeo-Christian God into the backstory of the Ones, also stripping them of their own uniqueness by insinuating they're just part of "God's celestial host"; by stripping the Force of its uniqueness to be something made by said God; by claiming the Star Wars Universe itself was crafted by the Celestials because things are so messed up in our world because f***ing Satan.

"But it's licensed and approved!" Who in their right mind could approve this for Star Wars Legends?
 
Good points, you made there for the exception of the SW universe crafted by the Celestials. Older legends material claimed that the Celestials created the Force which is just obviously asinine, but I don't see how the concept of a multiverse is stripping the Force of its uniqueness, the way I'd see, it made clear that even in other universes, the Force is stil there, always being omnipresent and acts a primordial concept that had no boundaries of whatsover, instead of it being an artificial energy field created by angel-like beings. Albeit, all of your other points are valid.

Well, there's even more crazy legends material like the introduction of the "Anti-Force" from Crystal Star, and that it's the polar opposite of the Force. Yeah, that's just bullshit. Funnily enough, the novella stated that the Anti-Force is just a name for otherspace, instead of it being a polar dual counterpart of the Force itself.
 
It's not the Multiverse existing that strips it of its uniqueness. It's the fact they inserted a clearly Christian God as its "source" and Creator.

People hated it when the FOX Percy Jackson movies forcibly injected Christian elements into a story with Greek Gods. Doing the same with Star Wars is worse, stripping away the individual nature of the entire setting. It's no longer its own Universe; it is just an off-shoot of a "Prime Universe" with a Judeo-Christian God; The Force is no longer its own thing, it is something made by the "Supreme Maker".

That's the major problem, more than anything else.
 
That's completely true. The Force isn't created from anything or anyone, it's always being omnipresent, there's no definite on how it's created because it had always existed.
 
Also, many elements of the Force were inspired by Hinduism. This novella essentially tries to strip away the Hinduism inspiration and replace it with Judeo-Christianity.
 
ANormalMetalSheevite said:
HOLY SHIT! That many Galactic Empire-era ISDs in just one place. The film is trying to pull off like from the Dark Empire trilogy.
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We knew that the First Order had Imperial-class star destroyers thanks to the "Before the Awakening" novel and other Canon works. Rae Sloane in the Aftermath trilogy even guesses that Palpatine had hidden a huge ******* fleet out there somewhere, potentially numbering in the several hundreds.

But, yeah, to see so many on-screen is a surprise to be sure, and a damn welcome one.
 
The orbital bombardment we saw in the trailer is rather clear proof the Onager-class will also be in the film. The appearance of the lasers destroying the landscape are too much like those in the Onager artwork to be coincidence.
 
Catalyst75 said:
The orbital bombardment we saw in the trailer is rather clear proof the Onager-class will also be in the film. The appearance of the lasers destroying the landscape are too much like those in the Onager artwork to be coincidence.
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The blast didn't look like the superheavy turbolaser shots depicted in the FFG artwork. Perhaps they could be the particle cannons mentioned in Rebel Files (assuming it is indeed an attack from an Onager)?
 
I just saw Eckhartsladder's breakdown of the D23 trailer.

He pointed out that the Imperial I-class star destroyers of the hidden fleet we see each have a massive ventral cannon in front of the primary hangar bay.

It's possible that we won't see the Onager-class star destroyer in TROS, and that the bombardment we see in the D23 trailer is actually from one of those ISDs.
 
I've just got a question. Would anyone say Berch Teller's Providence-class Dreadnought (which was modified and basically assembled from scrap and parts of the Invincible, Lucid Voice and some frigates) from the Tarki novel is comparable to other warships of the same class?

I bring this up because it's said Teller's ship would have destroyed the Electrum, a Venator. They do later imply it would at least put up a fight.

  • "Wake rotation!" another spec cut in. "We've got a mark in from hyperspace, sir—and it's a big one. Nine hundred twenty meters long. Gunnage of twelve turbolaser cannons, ten point-defense ion cannons, six proton torpedo launchers. Reverting on the near side of the planet. Range is two hundred thousand klicks and closing." He blew out his breath. "Good thing you dispatched the Electrum, sir, or it'd be in pieces by now!"
  • Even if he had dispatched the Electrum to the marshaling station—even if he had been taken in by the distress call and dispatched half his flotilla—the energy shields and laser cannons that protected Sentinel would have been sufficient to ward off any strikes, let alone from droids.
 
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