SSJ4 Gogeta vs Dino Thunder Black

[Ryukama]

This seems like a rather fair match. Both are an unknown yet very high degree above baseline Galaxy level. And both are pretty lacking in the hax department.

Conditions:

Speed is Equalized

Gogeta's Fusion is Permanent

Standard Battle Assumptions

Current Tally:

Gogeta: 5

Oliver: 2

 

[Cropfist]

Tommy, illusions and invisibility give him the edge. Plus he doesn't toy around with his foes.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Hmm, does gogeta fusion stay at around 10 minutes? or is it premanent in this vs thread?

 

[Ryukama]

@Peter I've seen many threads have Gogeta's fusion be permanent and that was my idea for this thread. I'll specify that in the OP. Either way 10 minutes is an insanely long time to either of these guys.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Tommy, illusions and invisibility give him the edge. Plus he doesn't toy around with his foes.

Both hard countered by Ki sensing.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

@Peter I've seen many threads have Gogeta's fusion be permanent and that was my idea for this thread. I'll specify that in the OP. Either way 10 minutes is an insanely long time to either of these guys.

Ah ok, thanks for clarify

 

[Ryukama]

@Peter No problem.

 

[Cropfist]

Okay, but there's still my other point and his constantly increasing power still giving him the win. And ki sensing counters illusions?

 

[RadicalMrR]

Why would an illusion have a Ki signature?

Also Gogeta was debated if he should be multi galaxy rather than just galaxy so hes not exactly hurting for power.

Also this isnt "I gotta make sure the villain does this before I kill him" like in GT this is rather "I have no reason to mess around" like fusion reborn.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Tommy:When unmorphed, he possesses Superhuman Physical Characteristics. When morphed, his strength, durability and speed are all increased considerably. He also possesses Ninja powers in certain forms that allow him to cast Illusions and heighten his speed even further. The Zeo Crystal allows his Zeo form to constantly increase in power over time. The Black Dino Gem grants Invisibility.

Gogeta: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Chi Manipulation and sensing, Flight, Teleportation, Knowledge of all Goku's and Vegeta's abilities

I like tommy alot (his run in dino charge is the goat), but Gogeta has the abilities of both Goku's and Vegeta (see both links plz) so it's kind of hard for me to not choose gogeta in this one.......though his likeness to toy with his enemies may come into play.....

Gogeta 8/10

 

[Cropfist]

Being debated for multi-galaxy does not make him any stronger. It only means those who debated for it did not understand the massive gap between the two APs.

 

[RadicalMrR]

The staff, the staff thought might of been reasonable before deciding at least was the safer choice.

Syn Shenron is a casual galaxy buster, Omega is 10X that. Gogeta would have needed to be about 64 times that.

Base Fusion form > SSG 4 Goku who is 3-C, the kaio ken multipliers alone would push to the high end of 3-C.

 

[Cropfist]

Made-up multipliers? The gap between the low and high end of galaxy is 644 times.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Like I said Gogeta only needs to be 64.4 times stronger than Omega Shenron to be Multi galaxy.

Either way Gogeta has the AP advantage here.

 

[Ryukama]

If we're going to make assumptions like that, then Dino can very well be 3-B or higher. He's stronger than someone who's stronger than someone who created Triassic Dimension. And Triassic Dimension did have vast space surrounding that galaxy. For all we know there can be far more galaxies if we want to start speculating like this.

Since neither of these people are a decisive amount above 3-C, we shouldn't assume one of them is stronger than the other.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Ryu said what I was just about to say. Both characters could very well be 3-B, but they're not. Also, I'm pretty sure Tommy's ability to constantly get stronger as time goes on is a nullpoint for Dino Black, since he had that ability from the Zeo Crystals, which he no longer uses.

Edit: For better clarification, this is Conners galaxy feat, and Tommy is considerably stronger than him.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Ryu Unlike Tommy, Gogeta has numbers to back him up. I know we dont use power levels but having his power level be 4000X what it was previously it fairly safe to assume hes quite a bit stronger than a single galaxy buster.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Radical

Gogeta doesn't have any numbers to back it up. Your numbers aren't really based on anything beyond assumptions.

"Like I said Gogeta only needs to be 64.4 times stronger than Omega Shenron to be Multi galaxy."

 

[RadicalMrR]

Ever wasnt Omega Shenron 10X stronger than Syn?

 

[Ryukama]

"Unlike Tommy, Gogeta has numbers to back him up."

No. Gogeta has a contradictory once stated multiplier based on assumptions that this site does not accept to back him up. Tommy has actual feats backing him up.

Like Dark said, both of these guys could be 3-B, but there isn't enough concrete evidence to support them being so.

When characters are an unknown level within their tier, we assume them to be equal for the sake of a VS match.

Also remember that if Triassic Dimension even has 3 galaxies, which is quite possible, considering the vast space surrounding the galaxy in the very tiny portion we can actually see, then Dino curbstomps any multipliers you want to add on to Gogeta.

 

[SomebodyData]

Gogeta's afterimages + teleportation + likely greater intelligence take this as ki sensing counters Oliver's abilities.

BTW what's Oliver's range?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I haven't watched Dino Thunder in years, but he does have a weapon called the "Brachio Staff" which can fire elemental attacks. Dunno about the exact range, but he's not without ranged attacks.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Ryu I have only watched like 40% of GT so most of the stuff I say I see here. Ive been under the impression Omega is 10X stronger than Syn from here.

Since it doesnt seem to be true. I'll try something else.

Since we are following anime canon, the base form of a fusion is stronger than the peak of either participant. Like how base Vegito was stronger than SSJ3 so base Gogeta 1 galaxy strong.

We also accept the Kaio ken as a direct multiplier.

The highest showing of a base form Kaioken is 20 so Gogeta should be around there.

Is this logic flawed?

 

[Ryukama]

@Radical I guess not. But once again I can just say Triassic Dimension has 3 galaxies and blow any multiplier of yours way out of the water.

I can extrapolate Dino FAR more than you can extrapolate Gogeta. However presumptious extrapolations on either side should not be accounted for.

Therefore both of these unquantifiable levels of 3-C or higher are considered to be equal for the sake of fairness.

Could you please stop derailing the thread now. There is nothing but assumption to support Gogeta being stronger than Dino. And I can make assumptions that put Dino vastly above Gogeta.

Let's actually focus on other points regarding these two now.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Well since we are assuming they start equal in power Dino probably takes it if he has his power boosting thing.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

@Radical.

With all due respect, I believe a post like that would be better suit for a Content Revision thread rather than a vs battle thread. This isn't really forwarding the discussion between Tommy or Gogeta.

Edit: Also, the Power Boosting is only a thing with the Zeo Crystals, which I don't think he uses after Power Rangers Zeo.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Not sure who would win off the bat, but we're assuming that Z Fighters' sensing is automatic. It's not, or else flash stepping in that verse would be useless. He'd have to adjust to being in the dark for a second.

 

[SomebodyData]

I don't see what that has to do with anything @Cal? While it is true Gogeta has to actively use it in battle, its something that isn't too hard to do. Also Solar Flare has generally only worked on characters that don't have ki sensing if I remember correctly.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It worked on Vegeta in the Cell Saga. And Tien, Krillin, and Piccolo in the Cell Saga. And what I said is important because if Tommy sets up illusions or invisibility, Gogeta will need a second to realize he needs to switch to ki sensing, and that gives Tommy a chance to attack. It's a small opening, but an opening nonetheless. And in this fight, every opening matters.

 

[SomebodyData]

I see, well this is quite the opening, which would give him an edge in the first part of the fight. However, once Gogeta uses his ki sensing and afterimages (Which he has no counter to) Tommy will suffer hard.

Not to mention, from what Dark said, it seems Gogeta does have quite a bit of a range advantage.

 

[Huesito88]

Wait I thought the mega zords increased there speed why didn't you give tommy the mega zord or would it have been a speed stomp in his favor?

 

[SomebodyData]

I think his standard profile already includes Megazords

 

[EnoYaka]

I vote Gogeta based off having the abilities of goku and vegeta, better ap, sensing ability, instant transmission, solar flare, plus goku is a fighting genius and gets better when he fights tough opponents. Plus what other have said above

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Gogeta has enough abilities to give him the W

 

[Ryukama]

@Jo-Smooth could you please elaborate on which abilities so your vote can be counted?

 

[Pikachu942]

This is a tough battle, but I think I'll give it to SSJ4 Gogeta high-diff (sadly). Due to having all of Goku and Vegeta's abilities at the time of his transformation, he has far more versatility. Tommy's invisibility could come into play though, as intangibility is one of the banes of most DB characters. Right now I say Gogeta wins, but I'm not out of the realm of being persuaded otherwise.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Gogeta for reasons above