Speedwagon VS Goblin Slayer

[ArgentinianDeadpool]

The powerful hat is restricted.

Speed equalized.

• Robert Edward O. Speedwago:

• Goblin Slayer (Character):

• Inconclusive:

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'll go for Speedwagon actually. Goblin Slayer is arguably more skilled and has actual combat skills, but even trained soldiers fall prey to unconventional warfare users like Speedwagon's gang.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Isn't it just speedwagon and not the gang?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Of course it's just Speedwagon, it's just that he uses unconventional warfare as a gang leader himself.

 

[DMUA]

>Building level via a hat

>Cut Jonathan's arm and hit bone

Wasn't that like

Jonathan before he got superpowers

Not sure that counts at all

 

[Torlikoff]

It was decided that Hamon only buffed him so much and that he was 8-C before it.

 

[DMUA]

That makes all of

No sense whatsoever considering he does his 8-C feats with hamon and he definitely can't blow up a cliffside as a dude without hamon.

 

[Torlikoff]

I know. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Kind of unrelated here tbh. Also there's an AP revision going on for JoJo so head there.

 

[DMUA]

Then I don't think we should really rate hamonless Jonathan as 8-C when his feats without hamon are only like, capping out at Wall level for surviving the long fall as he impaled Dio on the Family Guardian.

 

[Torlikoff]

Speedwagon wouldn't be affected from that, given that he doesn't at all scale to the 8-B feat.

 

[DMUA]

Anyways

Spoodwagon for reasons above

 

[Torlikoff]

The Concept of Speen Condensed into A Wagon FRA.

 

[Moritzva]

SPEEEEDWAGON fra

 

[Delta3000]

Goblin slayer due to being a more skilled fighter and a better tactician. Sure Speedwagon uses unconventional tactics sometimes but GS fights people (goblins) like that all the time and is a very dirty fighter himself.

 

[Moritzva]

Edit: Nothing to see here move along

 

[Delta3000]

According to the OP Speed is equalized and the hat has been restricted.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Speed Equal.

 

[Moritzva]

I'm blind.

Still Speedwagon, but with difficulty. He can play sneaky and use more unusual tactics. Although now that I'm no longer blinded, yes, it's close.

 

[Torlikoff]

Vote retracted then

 

[Moritzva]

Actually, SBA puts this in New York City, which gives Speedwagon an advantage since he's more use to such a battleground, being a surprisingly adept street thug. So I remain set on Speedwagon.

 

[Delta3000]

Isn't it central park in new York, which would be neutral territory for them both. Alleyways wouldn't be much of an advantage anyway as GS prefers confined spaces though speedwagon would still be more familiar.

 

[Moritzva]

Right, but this matchup is close and I think every little advantage matters here.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Needwagon for Speedwagon FRA

 

[Delta3000]

@ Thepixelkirby

I agree and it's why I think GS would win since he is the better fighter and is unlikely to fall for any of Speedwagon's traps.

 

[Moritzva]

Better fighter or not, I'd bargain Speedwagon wins.

Starting in New York, Needwagon would very quickly realize a face to face fight is not in his favor. So, he will more likely spend the battle messing in the shadows. Good fighter or not, Speedwagon was a born street thug with surprisingly adept skills. He would be able to use his environment to his advantage- even if traps don't work, Speedwagon can play stealthy and wait for a moment to strike.

I get what you are saying, and in a straight 1v1 in a Roman arena with no environment for Speedwagon to use, Slayer would likely win with versatility. But, Speedwagon is certainly capable of using his environment to his advantage, and since their stats are virtually the same physical-wise, I say Speedwagon wins with difficulty.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

This is central park, there is not much place to go stealthy. Most trees aren't even as wide as half of speedwagon.

 

[Delta3000]

So stealth and traps vs a guy who fights and slaughters stealth and trap users on the regular using his enhanced senses and traps.

 

[Moritzva]

I've lived in New York. Trust me, a street thug could certainly find a way- if he thought it was necessary, he could always just retreat to a better place to fight.

Seeing how GB would be in a completely new environment and against traps and tricks he's never seen or experienced, while Speedwagon is the one pulling the tricks, it's not unreasonable to say Goblin Slayer would eventually fuck up and be worn down, no?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Completly new envirement? It's a plain field with some trees. Using "He'll find a way" is also bad arguing.

 

[Delta3000]

If anything being in a new environment would put GS even more on guard and likely to retreat to an environment better for him (like a sewer) rather than following Speedwagon.

 

[Moritzva]

Would GS in-character do that? If so, this might just be inconclusive, actually.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

What's stopping Speedwagon from wrecking the Goblin Slayer in fair combat? He wields a sledgehammer, which would absolutely wreck GS's armour. Heck, Speedwagon can likely fend off the GS relatively well considering he rose to the top of the Ogre Street Gang, who fight with knives. Granted, GS still outskills Speedwagon but he isn't instakilling him via skill. All Speedwagon needs to do is get a good hit on GS's head and he is dead. Also, heavy non-flexible metal armour of the kind GS wears is specifically good against slashing and stabbing weapons but weak against blunt weapons as heavy metal armour caves in on impact and depending on the place of impact, may cause all kinds of issues like suffocation (sternum), difficulty moving (joint regions), broken ribs etc.

Voting Speedwagon for better weaponry.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What does speedwagon take his 9-B from? Like, what feat do the zombies have?

 

[Moritzva]

I'm not exactly sure, but he was able to deal blows to them similar to the other Hamon users. Regardless, he has it.

Also, yes, a sledgehammer would indeed fuck over armor, yet another thing in Speedwagon's favor.

Overall, yea, I think Speedwagon can get this since while Goblin Slayer is more skilled, Speedwagon has battlefield advantage, unorthodox tactics only improved by this advantage, and a better weapon against armor.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The dude got hit by an ogre with a thing far worse then any sledge hammer. And unless speedwagon has some really good feats, he is much weaker than a nearly ten meter tall, muscular ogre.

 

[Moritzva]

Speedwagon's feats put him right next to Goblin Slayer in raw striking power (Wall-level AP, wall-class striking strength) So unless Goblin Slayer is just as strong as the Ogre in raw strength, which I highly doubt, Speedwagon is stronger than the Ogre.

Edit: Speedwagon's striking power is wall-class while Goblin Slayer has wall-class durability, so he can certainly compete with the ogre, meaning the advantages of his sledgehammer apply here.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That is objectivly false.

The weakest 9-B is litirally 1394.67 times weaker than the strongest 9-B's. Unless he has good feats, he is nowhere near that ogre, which the slayer can survive a full hit from.

 

[Moritzva]

While we do need specific feats for both the ogre and Speedwagon, he's still Wall-Level and a sledgehammer has plenty of force in it. As Goblin Slayer endures the hit, yes he is wall level, but simple force dictates that more force packed in a smaller weapon and sledgehammer will also be more lethal and dangerous. More force, less surface area.

Unless you can provide precise calcs from the Ogre, we can't even begin to claim that the Ogre was significantly stronger than Speedwagon.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Taking a hit from a ten meter tall monster is far superior to anything a sledge hammer can do dude.

That is once again false. Dinosaurs don't have calc but are still stronger than a sledge hammer can ever be.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And, mind you, a full grown t-rex at it's tallest is only comparable to the ogre, and they don't have an actual weapon they can properly swing.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Speedwagon scales from smashing fodder zombie troops into mush. Said fodder zombies are reanimated old British soldiers (age of knights) in some level of metal armour. Zombies are stronger than humans physically and even smashing humans to mush is an easy 9-B feat. Don't know numbers though.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Since it's not on his profile, you will need actual scans.

 

[Moritzva]

As well, a durability feat. Speedwagon surviving a thrown body from Dio that dismembers multiple people, surviving with only broken bones: https://m.imgur.com/a/SUwYA This shows he's also not lacking in durability feats, especially considering Dio has Multi-City Block AP and City Block Class Striking Strength. This shows he's certainly not outclassed by Goblin Slayer in terms of durability, either.

I would certainly not place him below the Ogre in strength just because he looks like it, since if we counted all the characters that didn't look like Vecna at her tier, we'd have a lot of issues.

Basically, at the moment they are both Wall level and we have no reason to believe one is significantly weaker than the other. They have both survived hefty blows- although, Speedwagon has taken hits from arguably stronger forces and survived. Overall, Speedwagon should get this.

 

[Delta3000]

Retreating and then setting up a trap is very much IC for GS.

Blunt weapons are good against armour but if Speedwagon misses or his strike is deflected he's wide open for a counter and given he's not wearing armour said counter blow will be lethal.

@ tacticalnuke002

Actually GS's armour isn't heavy or inflexible, if you look again he isn't wearing any armour at the joints so he wouldn't be slowed down

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

DIO is getting downgraded, or changed in AP regardless, but that didn't seem like really something he put much effort into, and if he did it's an outlier at best.

Show an actual feat from him. Surviving any kind of attack from a 8-B does not quialify for proof of his 9-B stuff.

 

[Moritzva]

It is worth noting that Goblin Slayer's durability feat was with his armor, while Speedwagon's feats against Jonathan and Dio were with no armor, so it is likely he could survive a few hits from Goblin Slayer.

But yes, it is close. Very close. However, Speedwagon has terrain advantage so I still grant him the advantage. The sledgehammer is good against armor, the terrain favors him and his tactics, and Goblin Slayer likely hasn't fought many people quite like Speedwagon.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Goblin Slayer could also, you know, potion scum.

And again, survivng an attack from an 8-B is not a 9-B feat, it's an outlier. Provide something that can actually be used.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Dura feats(should scale to AP):

Dio throws a corpse so hard, it tears through 4 people. Speedwagon is hit by the attack and only breaks his arms and ribs

https://www.imgur.com/a/SUwYA

https://www.imgur.com/X8DfG7o

Gets hit directly by Jack the Ripper's scalpel which he launches at speeds high enough to shatter rock.

https://www.imgur.com/NwX17mj

AP:

Smashes a zombie's head with his sledgehammer

https://www.imgur.com/08RAqKC

 

[Moritzva]

Also, I wouldn't call either that or his feat against Jonathan a massive outlier when both are quite impressive feats and both are on his profile.

Assuming both were holding back, he still survived two hefty blows that more than place him at wall-level.

https://imgur.com/FASrYcW

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Plus, he didn't take the full strenght of the hit, because as logic will tell you, it hitting people before slowed and weakened it, and even then it only hit his arm, which broke.

He got hit to the shoulder, and it went through, that isn't a feat.

The hammer is honestly far too low-end to matter.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Pretty sure JoJO was not 8-C at that point, and I already explained why the feat with dio isn't aplicable directly. It going throug bodies slowed and weakened it, and it broke the part it hit cimpletly.

 

[Moritzva]

If you don't believe the hammer is wall-level, go request something. But for this fight, it is, and we're going with it.

Also, he quite clearly got hit right in the arm.

In the end, we have no feats as to the Ogre's strength so we can't properly say Speedwagon isn't as strong as the Ogre. Counting that, the battlefield advantage, and weaponry good against armored opponents, Speedwagon takes this with difficulty.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, it is baseline 9-B, not even close to something like the ogre due to sheer size.

Yes, and the asrm snapped easily.

The ogre made several dozen meter wide explosion, which is about halfway into 9-B, and used magic and physical hits interchangibly. It also scales above a sledgehammer by sheer size, much like how a caracter can be 8-C via sheer size.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Speedwagon just needs to aim for the head tbh.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What? You realize the ogre's blow got all of his body, head included, yeah? And unless you can give some proper feats, a sledgehammer would be barely enough to faze someone who can take a hit from anything larger than 5 meters.

And again, potion scumming.

 

[Moritzva]

Right, so the Ogre hit with 9-B, while Dio threw the body and has 8-B AP. Even if you are to assume he was barely trying, the force to rip through four people in a row is absolutely absurd- the amount of force needed to do that not once, but four times is incredible. I highly doubt this is below a 9-B feat.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You really don't understand? Dio being 8-B doesn't matter here. If he put any of his power into it the feat would be any outlier.

It ripping through those people is the problem as well. I can throw a cannonball hard enough to rip through two bodies, but after it rips through those bodies the cannonball will be severly weakened.

Beyond that, the only part of him that was hit broke with no proper resistance at all. If he were hit on the chest he'd be long dead.


Also, Goblin Slayer has his scroll, which pulverized the lower half of said ogre.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Dio wasn't 8-B at the time tho. Like the drunkard vampire who threw him right through a huge wall, Dio should be somewhere in mid to high 9-B at the time he threw the policeman.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Make a crt to get him that key then, and I'm also pretty sure he was at least 8-C at that point.

 

[Moritzva]

Also, check the feat and look closely.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Lxl4XFUh1...aXSKshUcvPOhCvH9gZYUgwCHM/s16000/0008-019.png

The weapon's width is around the size of the Ogre's head, and GB is clearly reeling over, chest blown backwards, as if hit in the stomach.

Let's say the Ogre's feat is 9B, sure. Dio's body throwing feat is certainly at least 9B, if not higher. At the very least, this puts them at equal. Not only that, but Speedwagon's single strike with his sledgehammer was enough to shatter through the zombie's head, while zombies in JJBA are much stronger than a regular human. In the end, it's unreasonable to say Goblin Slayer flat-out outclasses Speedwagon.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He was hit upwards in the chest area.

Let's say..? You realize that through sheer size that thing scales above t-rexes right? The weapon it's using also mostly works like a sledge hammer, exept with much more mass, so sledge hammer is flat out useless.

Well, being far above human meansd nothing. They could be X50 stronger than any human and still be baseline 9-B at best. The ogre is at least scalable to a t-rex, whiuch is faaaaar above that.

 

[Moritzva]

The argument that it slowed down keeps getting brought up; while true, this even supports the feat in the way. It effortlessly flew through four people! It hit someone, went through them, and the next person, and the next person, and the next person. Effortlessly. But Speedwagon survived. Sure, it slowed, but it was still clearly fast enough to kill more people. Very clearly.

 

[Moritzva]

And if the weapon scales above a T-Rex, I would like a feat and calculation for that. Some amount of evidence would do.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So your going to ignore the part where it only hit his hand, and said hand broke effrotlessly too?

And again, he slaps out the scroll and proceeds to atacking him with something that pulverizes 9-B's on that level. Or potion scums to victory.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And if the weapon scales above a T-Rex, I would like a feat and calculation for that. Some amount of evidence would do.

Do you not understand through sheer size..?

A t-rex can at most be 9-B, and they lack the physiology to properly strike something or charge well. Something the size of a T-rex, with human physiology, especially when with a weapon, is far above anything a t-rex can muster.

 

[Moritzva]

It hit his arm, very clearly, and close enough to impact his ribs. Hurt or not, he survived. As well, I don't see any feats for the scroll on the profile putting him at above wall-level AP.

Goblin Hunter got blasted into the air by the Ogre, so he certainly didn't shrug that off. If it's any indicator of GB's durability, one hit from Speedwagon should certainly send him backwards- aim for the head, and he's just about done. Meanwhile, Speedwagon was hurt, but he didn't fly into the air, either, showing a certain manner of resilience where all the other people were splattered across the entire room.

 

[Moritzva]

Also, the weapon isn't remotely close to T-Rex size. At least, not in width- it's no bigger than the Ogre's head. The length is hidden off-screen.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

An arm being close to his chest doesn't mean that the arm being hit also hit the chest. He got hit by one attack, and it completly snapped the part it hit. And dura is nbot scalable to AP either way anyways, and nothing you brought up in attack feats is really worth mentioning in this fight.

The scroll is 9-B, just on a much higher degree. And again, potion scumming. And if you know anything about actual combat, you know that a hit to the head with a sledge hammer is the easiest thing to see.

The weapon doesn't need to be t-rex sized. A hammer doesn't need to be human sized to be 10-B. It is simply the fact that it's being swung by something bigger than a t-rex, faster than a t-rex could hit directly, that puts it above it.

 

[Moritzva]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ssx7EYtKh...XtmxCwMaDaPfw3D6Ix53rACHM/s16000/0008-020.png

Damn you, accidentally posting the wrong image.

This image shows an Ogre similar to the first one failing to even break a pillar. This hits GS so hard he's down, on the ground, struggling to even get back up.

Are we really arguing that GS has higher durability than Speedwagon? Unless there's reason for the other Ogre to be much stronger than this one, being knocked into the air and surviving is even more of an outlier as he got hit by the same species.

 

[Moritzva]

Also, I'd like evidence that the person swinging was anywhere near as big or strong as a T-Rex.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dude, nothing you showed for his AP is even close to any of that. Plus, there are hogoblins (fodders) who can smash through pillars without being even slightly slowed

 

[Moritzva]

Okay, then could you give me an AP feat or striking feat that puts him drastically above Speedwagon, with evidence for how durable the creature he hit was?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The ogre is above a hogoblin who can destroy a pillar.

Gonna post the scan in a bit, and likely call the strike og the ogre to begin with

 

[Moritzva]

Finding exact feats for the zombie is difficult; closest one can get is comparing one to Jack the Ripper, who died to Jonathan's Hamon.

However, this does show that Speedwagon has strength enough to fight blow to blow with creatures that other Hamon users need Hamon to kill.

Still looking for more conclusive evidence.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I highly doubt you can directly scale it to jack at all. Regardless, I'll calc it. Probably tomorrowm since it's night, but I'll calc it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oh, here is the ogre's lower half being vaporized by the way

 

[TacticalNuke002]

There were also the 4 fodders who were confident of defeating Straizo (lol) who had a chandelier dropped on them.

https://mangapark.me/manga/jojos-bizarre-adventure-part-1-phantom-blood/s2/v5/c39/e3/10-1?zoom=5

Granted there were 4 of them who managed to lift the chandelier, but it still may be a 9-B feat.

 

[Moritzva]

For Zombies:

https://m.imgur.com/oKKImuv Small ball thrown with enough force to completely obliterate a human head does show they aren't slouches at all offensively.

https://m.imgur.com/BW1jNDa Jack the Ripper tossed a carriage so hard the cave they were in collapsed.

At the moment, it is difficult to find a proper durability feat besides being hit by Jonathan and other Hamon users.

However, this does show that they are clearly hefty and powerful and certainly aren't slouches.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The first feat is something that can be done by the elf archer in goblin slayer, and she was plain fodder to the ogre.

Jack, once again, isn't really scalable.

 

[Moritzva]

As for the Ogre, I'd say they are pretty close. The Ogre is certainly 9-B, but we don't have a metric for durability and they have been very inconsistent.

I do say their feats are very similar in strength- Surviving Dio's attack vs being knocked into the air, both were clearly affected and hurt.

In the end, for me, this comes down to Speedwagon's terrain advantage. If this were, say, in a forest, Speedwagon would likely lose. But this is close.

Hopefully we can both find some new feats- I'm enjoying this fight, after all.

...Might need a vote tally though.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

how does the terrain help him..? There is nothing asround but trees.

And I already said I'm calcing the ogre stuff.

 

[Moritzva]

Looked at the chandelier scene- They seemed to be completely unaffected by it being kicked down at them by a Likely 8-B character in Straizo. (Although they got stuck, they didn't show any visible injury from this).

It's possible Straizo held back, but it's worth considering and calcing. At the very least, the zombies aren't slouches and have high AP to not make this seem like an outlier.

 

[Moritzva]

Terrain helps because leaving City Park is always an option, and if Speedwagon thinks the city would improve his chances, he'll go for it. Once in the city, he has the advantage.

Basically, Speedwagon is still a coward and would see no qualms with heading for a better location to fight.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Cacling it would at most yield high-end 9-C. And the guy being 8-B doesn't matter, as it would make it an automatic outlier.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Terrain helps because leaving City Park is always an option, and if Speedwagon thinks the city would improve his chances, he'll go for it. Once in the city, he has the advantage.
Basically, Speedwagon is still a coward and would see no qualms with heading for a better location to fight.

runnign 2 kilometers away? That's self bfr dude.

And it' hard to run and parry at the same time, especally som,ething small like an arrow.

 

[Moritzva]

Even at high 9-C, they were completely unaffected, so I'd bargain their actual durabilities are higher.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

High 9-C doesn't exist.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

He meant high in 9-C

 

[Moritzva]

Yea, that's what I meant.

 

[Moritzva]

Also, Speedwagon wouldn't purposely disqualify himself- Just play defensive and stay at a range while edging the fight towards the city.

Basically, any legal ways that exist that get him toward the city. Given their speeds, it won't take too long.

 

[Moritzva]

https://gfycat.com/BountifulIdealAntarcticfurseal The fact that a majority of the zombie's durability feats are them being curb stomped by 8-C and higher Hamon users makes them difficult to compare to Speedwagon- however, the fact that these people are always hitting them so hard makes it seem as if the zombies have some amount of durability to warrant that. They've survived 9-C attacks easily, but get one-shot by 8-C or 8-B attacks specifically meant to kill them. So I would say they are somewhere in between?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dude, the goblin slayer would just keep fiering arrows. Luring you into an advantagous place is the main plan he deals with daily.

 

[Moritzva]

Then Speedwagon just dodged the arrows and continues gaining distance.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And..? The slayer will not follow him.

 

[Moritzva]

Then is this incon?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Looked it briefly over, and if the.. mace (What is that weapon called?) is made of iron, and the strike happened in one second, it could be 9-A.

Huess I'll make a crt, not right away tough.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

All this back and forth of AP and stuff aside, which is probably best left for a CRT and until then this is what we have, Goblin Slayer is completely accostumed to hunting droves of little child-like things that constantly rely on trickery, scumminess and dirty play because they don't have much else. He has again and again pulled tactic after tactic just relying on what's available even when Elf Archer limited what he could do getting fed up with his constant trickery.

He's very adept at using his Shield for defense or offense and I don't see Speedwagon just sneaking on him effectively enough to circumvent him, especially when his usual prey is tons of small and quick fuckers that can see in darkness while he... can't. Not even a good place in general to go hiding around.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ah, the fever is getting to me.


Put the calc itself gives 104120.1 joules, so X6 times above baseline

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Regardless, goblin slayer through experience and skill