Soul Manipulation Adjustment

[Andytrenom]

Here's a paragraph from the Soul Manipulation page.

"It should be noted that not all forms of Soul Manipulation bypass conventional durability. The ability to attack or destroy a ghost is simply not comparable to directly interacting with the soul of a physical body. User discretion is necessary when determining the extent and potential power of a character's ability to manipulate souls."

I'm pretty sure this was before Non-Physical Interaction was added which is what attacking ghosts would now quaify as. Therefore I think this should be either be removed from the page or at least reworded in a sufficient manner. There are other parts of the page which list interacting with spirits as soul manipulation which I think also should be changed.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Being able to destroy a disembodied soul is soul manipulation, which is what destroying ghosts commonly comes down to.

Non-Physical interaction doesn't necessarily include soul destruction, just being able to physically interact with them. Not even sure if we generally consider soul interaction Non-Physical Interaction, if it isn't physically interacting with them.

 

[Andytrenom]

Is that really true? I could have sworn being able to attack ghosts was non physical interaction now.

 

[DontTalkDT]

No idea how it's actually handeled. It would seem strange to count, for example, excorcism is non-physical interaction IMO.

I mean, in the text above we can generalize from "attack or destroy a ghost" to "manipulate a ghost/disembodied soul" and be done with it.

 

[Elizhaa]

Is that really true? I could have sworn being able to attack ghosts was non physical interaction now.

It is.

Non-Physical Interaction

• The power to interact with intangible or non-corporeal beings. Users can both see and interact with intangible, or non-corporeal, abstract, and nonexistent life-forms and entities, allowing them to make physical contact and possibly cause harm.

 

[Elizhaa]

A character needs to be ably manipulated or attacks or all souls for Sou manipulation including those within a body, not just ghosts. This usually yielded limited Soul Manipulation that was useless in all case except against ghostly being, for example.

In short, limited Soul Manipulation can go; I would rather it being switched to Non-Physical Interaction. SO, I agreed with the OP.

 

[DontTalkDT]

A character needs to be ably manipulated or attacks or all souls for Sou manipulation including those within a body, not just ghosts. This usually yielded limited Soul Manipulation that was useless in all case except against ghostly being, for example.
limited Soul Manipulation can go; I would rather it being switched to Non-Physical Interaction. SO, I agreed with the OP.

A character definitely doesn't need to be able to affect all souls for soul manipulation.

E.g. a character that can absorb disembodied souls or can control disembodied souls to move as he wants definitely has soul manipulation.


And as said, there are characters which can interact with ghosts, but can't destroy souls. So there is a difference there as well.

 

[Elizhaa]

DontTalkDT, I probably I went too far my figure of speech, my mistake on this point. I meant a character must be able to have some form of Soul Manipulation in general not just have "the ability to attack or destroy a ghost as it is simply not comparable to directly interacting with the soul of a physical body"

 

[DontTalkDT]

It is.

Non-Physical Interaction

• The power to interact with intangible or non-corporeal beings. Users can both see and interact with intangible, or non-corporeal, abstract, and nonexistent life-forms and entities, allowing them to make physical contact and possibly cause harm.

What if the character can only harm ghosts in non-physical ways. e.g. exorcism?

I always thought the gap in ability non-physical interaction was to fill was the ability to affect non-physical things by physical means, not to affect non-physical things by non-physical means.

 

[Andytrenom]

I always thought the gap in ability non-physical interaction was to fill was the ability to affect non-physical things by physical means, not to affect non-physical things by non-physical means.

I'm not sure what implied that to you.

 

[DontTalkDT]

DontTalkDT, I probably I went too far my figure of speech, my mistake on this point. I meant a character must be able to have some form of Soul Manipulation in general not just have "the ability to attack or destroy a ghost as it is simply not comparable to directly interacting with the soul of a physical body"

I mean, I agree in there being a difference between attacking a ghost and being able to destroy a disembodied soul.

We should just change the text to:

"It should be noted that not all forms of Soul Manipulation bypass conventional durability. The ability to manipulate a disembodied soul is simply not comparable to directly manipulating the soul of a physical body. User discretion is necessary when determining the extent and potential power of a character's ability to manipulate souls."

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm not sure what implied that to you.

Dunno, had the impression that that was what it was originally created for. ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

 

[Andytrenom]

Hmmn. Anyway, your above revision would probably be fine, although I would like to see what others have to say on this topic.

 

[Elizhaa]

DontTalkDT, I probably I went too far my figure of speech, my mistake on this point. I meant a character must be able to have some form of Soul Manipulation in general not just have "the ability to attack or destroy a ghost as it is simply not comparable to directly interacting with the soul of a physical body"

I mean, I agree in there being a difference between attacking a ghost and being able to destroy a disembodied soul.
We should just change the text to:

"It should be noted that not all forms of Soul Manipulation bypass conventional durability. The ability to manipulate a disembodied soul is simply not comparable to directly manipulating the soul of a physical body. User discretion is necessary when determining the extent and potential power of a character's ability to manipulate souls."

It is usually limited or non-combat applicable except in ghost fights, etc. It is closer to Non-Physical Interaction than Soul Manipulation. I think the original text should be taken or change to state that the abilities could be Non-Physical Interaction instead.

 

[Andytrenom]

Btw Elizhaa, can you avoid quoting big posts. You can just @ Donttalk or edit out some chunks of the quoted text.

 

[Elizhaa]

Andytrenom, you have a double post.

 

[Elizhaa]

Andytrenom, I had to specify because DontTalkmadeade an initial response before the last one I wanted responded too. I will keep in mind.

 

[Andytrenom]

Andytrenom, you have a double post.

Yeah, that seems to be happening a lot lately.

 

[Andytrenom]

Pump.

 

[Andytrenom]

Lump.

 

[Andytrenom]

Jump

 

[Andytrenom]

Trump

 

[Andytrenom]

Dump

 

[Antoniofer]

Well, yes, interacting with ghost, spirits and such is no longer Soul Manipulation in the sense that simply touch, grab and "break" them in the conventional sense wouldn't qualify as such. Exorcism do not count as Non-Physical Interaction, its a variation of BFR and Soul Manipulation.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

How is attacking a soul different from attacking a ghost...? Most fiction treats ghosts as just sentient souls, nothing more.

Unless you meant that destroying a soul/ghost is different from simply attacking one, something that I would also disagree with generally, since it tend to only be a matter of the strength of the attack, unless it's a special ability doing so.

 

[Andytrenom]

Should it be okay to remove the passage in the OP?

And in case a description change is better, how would you word it?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I thinl that just saying that being able to interact with ghosts is only Non-Physical Interaction could work.

"It should be noted that the ability to interact with souls and other non-corporeal entities directly as if they were physical objects is usually considered Non-Physical Interaction and does not grant the user the ability to manipulate souls in other contexts."

Since Non-Physical Interaction doesn't imply durabilty bypassing, I think that this would be fine to dispel the misconcetion by itself.

 

[Andytrenom]

Should I also remove "being able to affect disembodied spirits" as a variation of Soul Manipulation?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Probably, yeah. It's vague anyway.

 

[Antoniofer]

Technically is an application of the power, Soul Manipulation gives you a limited Non-Physical Interaction, such being able to affect incorporeal beings only if they are disimbodied souls (soullessness are immune and if they are intangible can't be touched), and do not guarantee to interact physically with them.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We split it from soul manipulation for a reasons. Let's not confuse our users now.

 

[Andytrenom]

I think keeping it may be fine then.

Edit: Or maybe not

 

[Andytrenom]

Changes have been made.

 

[Elizhaa]

I believe this CRT can be closed then.