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Sora and Kairi Fate Manip Upgrade plus Type 8 Immortality

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Bobsican

Bobsican

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Well, this power was already accepted from the past CRT over this, but we never discussed how far it could go.
We all remember the spell Aqua did on Kairi, and how she points out how it worked. As it seems like Mario's Fate Manipulation, this would lead into Sora and Kairi's Fate Manipulation removing "true death" (Which in KH is the perishment of the body and the heart at the same time, which Sora got saved by thanks to his bond with Kairi) as a win condition from the opponent by default, and permanent incap for the same reason it goes with Mario's Fate hax, they can still be incapped (temporarily) or knocked out, however. Sora's bond with Kairi and vice-versa would also lead into them having a type 8 Immortality by being reliant on each other.
 
So I have a question before continuing this, what exactly entails this is fate manipulation? Aqua casting a spell on Kairi in context was her making it so the light within her will lead to the light of another.

This scene is made to explain why Kairi's heart was able to go inside of Sora's in KH 1 essentially, Aqua reaffirming her spell worked is because she sees Kairi is still fine and fighting, meaning her light was lead to another strong one, aka her friends.

This isn't a concept of fate but moreso connection, it's shown across various examples but first one that comes to mind is how when Belle was in trouble the light within Beast allowed him to believe he could find Belle and thus he found Belle without the powers of darkness of a gummi ship:


Btw I'm not saying Beast has the same thing as Kairi I'm saying it's not her being lead to Sora via fate, it's her light being lead to Sora via strong beliefs and her strong connection to him as Beast has a strong connection to Belle.

I agree with Type 8, though it should be noted one or the other needs to be aware the other died, this is the entire reason why death and game overs are still available for Sora outside of game mechanics. It should also be noted it varies on connection, so KH 3's type 8 is far stronger then KH 1's where Kairi needs to physically be present and hug Sora for him to restore himself back to his true self vs. KH 3 she just needs to refuse his death when she's aware of his death.
 
Well, changing the future so a particular destiny is to happen falls as Fate Manip.

Well, Kairi wasn't even sure if Sora died but just kept believing in KHIII, so she may not need to even be aware that his life it at risk and just hope for his eventual arrival or so. Note that Sora doesn't actually get a "true" death in all game overs AFAIK in KHIII, so it may be more of a game mechanic to just turn back to a previous point to avoid having to derail the plot.
 
Future was changed due to power of waking, not due to Kairi. Kairi assisted in changing the future through keeping Sora alive allowing him to use power of waking which is what changed causality, and the future prophecy.

She was pretty much sure, that entire scene was the death of all keyblade wielders. He does get a true death in game overs, the game over screen is his heart leaving his body which would be it perishing as his heart goes to the final world. KH 3 he gets true death game overs also. The only ones I'd consider game mechanics is the ones where he dies and Kairi is right there. I'm confused what you mean by turn back to a previous point? I didn't say Sora dying in those game overs are canon but him being able to die shouldn't be considered a game mecahnic.
 
Yes, what makes it Fate Manip is Kairi being destined to have some light protecting her, and it ended up being Sora as Aqua confirms, so that's why Sora ends up scaling over getting this power as well. There's also the Paopu fruit they shared bonding their destinies or so.

Well, that only happens when he loses to a Heartless, to anything else his Heart isn't affected (For example, note that his Heart only floats above his body if he loses to a Heartless, otherwise it doesn't come out), not that it changes much.

Anyways, by a previous point, I meant as in regarding whenever Sora is dying (or is too affected to continue as normal, in simple terms) in such (non-canon) game overs, being able to reload back to a previous point may not be a game mechanic, as he could be using the Power of Waking like before to rewrite the past (Goofy does make a reference to Save Points in Wonderland in KHI, but I really don't think they're a canon thing even if Xigbar hints that having a heart of light comes with a good insurance policy or so), but that's too much speculation now that I think about it, so that can be skipped if you think as well.
 
Bobsican said:
Yes, what makes it Fate Manip is Kairi being destined to have some light protecting her, and it ended up being Sora as Aqua confirms, so that's why Sora ends up scaling over getting this power as well. There's also the Paopu fruit they shared bonding their destinies or so.

Well, that only happens when he loses to a Heartless, to anything else his Heart isn't affected (For example, note that his Heart only floats above his body if he loses to a Heartless, otherwise it doesn't come out), not that it changes much.

Anyways, by a previous point, I meant as in regarding whenever Sora is dying (or is too affected to continue as normal, in simple terms) in such (non-canon) game overs, being able to reload back to a previous point may not be a game mechanic, as he could be using the Power of Waking like before to rewrite the past (Goofy does make a reference to Save Points in Wonderland in KHI, but I really don't think they're a canon thing even if Xigbar hints that having a heart of light comes with a good insurance policy or so), but that's too much speculation now that I think about it, so that can be skipped if you think as well.
Click to expand...
Nothing here is fate manipulation, I explained the issue with that above. She's not destined to have light protect her it's that when she's in danger she can track a light and follow them. That's what the spell does, track someone to put her heart into. Refer back to my Beast example. It's a spell that allows her to connect her hear t to others, not overturn destiny. If Aqua could do spells like that there would be no need for the power of waking.

That's happens when he loses to anyone.

Yeah I think that's pure headcanon and conjecture, power of waking is not an acasual ability that allows him to use it whenever. It's an ability he obtains in KH3 and can only use in KH3.What Xigbar states with light comes with a good insurance policy is likely moreso referring to the light guiding Sora through games which what it does there isn't fate manip.
 
If it isn't Fate Manip, then what is it?
Also, can you please mention the time on the video you posted? No timestamp appears for me, sadly.
 
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Bobsican said:
If it isn't Fate Manip, then what is it?
Also, can you please mention the time on the video you posted? No timestamp appears for me, sadly.
Click to expand...
Immortality via strong bonds from what's being described. Remove the bonds and it's weaker, so ig that can be added as a weakness.

Don't have the direct timestamp on hand cause I'm on phone, but just go to the scene where Beast and Riku have their dialogue.
 
It's a video of 30 minutes, it is too messy to just search around it without making a mess of more questions, are you sure you don't remember even at around what minute it happens?
 
Okay, just checked.
It still seems that the spell Aqua did still falls as pretty limited Fate Manip as it's forcing Kairi to have a (Slightly) different destiny, unless you're arguing that all it did was let her Heart merge into Sora's for a while, which doesn't seem to be the case with it going beyond KHI as she stated.

As for the immortality, well, Kairi seems to always have hope on Sora post KHIII Re:Mind, so it could be essencially combat applicable after that point.
 
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I don't see how it's forcing that? All it's doing is allow her to locate a heart when she's in danger. That's not forcing, that's giving her someone to locate, like Beast with Belle. Show a fate manip moment post KH 1? She was kidnapped for the entirety of KH2 and only escaped cause of Namine and Riku helping her out and she wasn't really ever in a situation where she was going to die.

I don't see why always having hope on Sora post KH 3 Re:Mind proves anything, she needs to be aware Sora's dead, she's had hope in him since KH 1.
 
Well, the way Aqua mentions it seems to just allow Kairi to enter into someone else's Heart without a Keyblade, so I guess it's not Fate Manip after all, and so it should be removed, Aqua should still keep Power Bestowal, however, even if it should be reworded a bit.

Let's see, all what Kairi did according to herself is believe that Sora wouldn't fade away (She doesn't seem to need to think that Sora is dead for this to apply, in fact she thought the opposite), and this still holds quite clearly after Re:Mind as she still hopes to find him again.
 
Aqua keeping Power Bestowal works.

She believed he wouldn't fade away after she saw him along with the other keyblade wielders die, I don't see what that proves exactly. Being aware of =/= thinking the opposite. Kairi's aware in both KH1 and KH3 that Sora has died but she refuses to accept that so she believes something different, but notice the instances it happens is Sora's death. She needs to know Sora's dead in order to believe he's not and change it around into his ress, if she doesn't know she has no reason to poewr her beliefs.
 
Sora didn't actually die when he became a Heartless, at least if we go by the full definition as Chirithy said, Kairi simply believed on Sora not going away, respectively, Chirithy even tells him that something is holding him from death, and later on it's revealed to be Kairi thanks to her hopes on him not fading away.
Where it's mentioned that the reason Sora didn't vanish was Kairi thinking that Sora died, rather than what's clear from the before-mentioned stuff? It's quite clear that Kairi is preventing Sora from going to "full death" in the first place.
 
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He was going to die but Kairi saved him he directly explains it.

Yes because she's aware he died during the fight.

What you basically argued is that the moments Kairi saves Sora when she believes he's going to die so she goes against that belief. She needs to overturn a belief first however as we see with KH 1 and 3.
 
Okay, just checked the KHI cutscene, it seems you're right.

So how would the Type 8 Immortality be worded?
 
That seems fine, but I guess for this case it would be best to list it twice for clarification's sake (More specifically, once in the KHI section, then another time with the more "unlimited" sort on CoM or whenever such limitation is lower).
 
Bobsican said:
That seems fine, but I guess for this case it would be best to list it twice for clarification's sake (More specifically, once in the KHI section, then another time with the more "unlimited" sort on CoM or whenever such limitation is lower).
Click to expand...
Yeah that's fine, that's what I was getting at anyways.
 
The re-specification on how it works would go in the CoM section or the KHIII one?
 
Should probably go into KH 3. CoM's would arguably be worse since Kairi doesn't even remember Sora until KH 2. KH 2 there's no real feat to suggest it's gotten better.
 
@GiverOfThePeace Hey, I've found this by accident, what do you think?
Q6: Why did Kairi end up with Sora and Riku?
A: It has to do with Aqua’s “magic”.

Nine years before KH, Kairi was thrust into the outside world, and found herself on Sora and Riku’s world. Ansem Seeker of Darkness thought that she had been able to search for a keyblade wielder, but what actually saved her was the magic spell Aqua had put on her.

[picture: Little Kairi]
Aqua: “Someday your light will lead you to a light that will protect you from the darkness.”

The magic Aqua puts on Kairi saves her once year later.

[picture: Ansem Report]

Ansem Seeker of Darkness felt a special power within Kairi and tried to use her to find the keyblade.
 
Bobsican said:
@GiverOfThePeace Hey, I've found this by accident, what do you think?
Q6: Why did Kairi end up with Sora and Riku?
A: It has to do with Aqua’s “magic”.

Nine years before KH, Kairi was thrust into the outside world, and found herself on Sora and Riku’s world. Ansem Seeker of Darkness thought that she had been able to search for a keyblade wielder, but what actually saved her was the magic spell Aqua had put on her.

[picture: Little Kairi]
Aqua: “Someday your light will lead you to a light that will protect you from the darkness.”

The magic Aqua puts on Kairi saves her once year later.

[picture: Ansem Report]

Ansem Seeker of Darkness felt a special power within Kairi and tried to use her to find the keyblade.
Click to expand...
Refer back to my tracking thing:
"So I have a question before continuing this, what exactly entails this is fate manipulation? Aqua casting a spell on Kairi in context was her making it so the light within her will lead to the light of another.

This scene is made to explain why Kairi's heart was able to go inside of Sora's in KH 1 essentially, Aqua reaffirming her spell worked is because she sees Kairi is still fine and fighting, meaning her light was lead to another strong one, aka her friends.

This isn't a concept of fate but moreso connection, it's shown across various examples but first one that comes to mind is how when Belle was in trouble the light within Beast allowed him to believe he could find Belle and thus he found Belle without the powers of darkness of a gummi ship

Btw I'm not saying Beast has the same thing as Kairi I'm saying it's not her being lead to Sora via fate, it's her light being lead to Sora via strong beliefs and her strong connection to him as Beast has a strong connection to Belle.

I agree with Type 8, though it should be noted one or the other needs to be aware the other died, this is the entire reason why death and game overs are still available for Sora outside of game mechanics. It should also be noted it varies on connection, so KH 3's type 8 is far stronger then KH 1's where Kairi needs to physically be present and hug Sora for him to restore himself back to his true self vs. KH 3 she just needs to refuse his death when she's aware of his death."
The light tracks a light in another good soul, aka Sora and Riku before he got corrupted.
 
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