Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Fireld]

maybe this

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Which cast was this

When was this all said?

maybe this

Yeah it was that one. Idk why I remembered it 100% objectively as a “destroy” statement though, since watching it again I can see “save all of creation” being read as either Black Doom destroying or conquering. I still see it more as the former though, and either way that should still involve the Time Eater and is good enough support for the Sonic Channel thing.

 

[Remus1998]

An argument that I keep hearing against Sage's simulations involves Bowser's army being so numerous with each member being able to equip themselves with tens of different items on top of Bowser's own mcguffins that it would somehow overwhelm Sage's calculations...

...the AI which is integrated into a universes madeup of an infinite amount of information/data which is more complex than digital realms we've come across prior including those which can contain tesseracts

 

[ShakeResounding]

...the AI which is integrated into a universes madeup of an infinite amount of information/data which is more complex than digital realms we've come across prior including those which can contain tesseracts

I struggle to find a reason why Sage can intake infinite information from Cyber Space but gets overwhelmed by simulating actions of an army wielding medieval-era creations lol

 

[Executor_N0]

Honestly, quite funny that as of late Sonic had two reality-warping powers that often get confused/downplayed because they coexist with something else. You have the Phantom Ruby, so it doesn't matter if they are shown to warp space-time, travel between dimensions and create a whole sealed-off dimension, since it "can create illusions", people just think nothing it does matter if "your mind is strong enough".

While the Cyberspace is directly called to be a different dimensional plane, in a different space-time, a whole reality that carries hopes, dreams, souls, and was used to seal off the embodiment of the concept of Death by trying to warp the very universal law of causality, but since it's "a computer cyberspace", people will think that is just a powerful gaming PC that has no effect in reality.

 

[Theuser789]

An argument that I keep hearing against Sage's simulations involves Bowser's army being so numerous with each member being able to equip themselves with tens of different items on top of Bowser's own mcguffins that it would somehow overwhelm Sage's calculations...

...the AI which is integrated into a universes madeup of an infinite amount of information/data which is more complex than digital realms we've come across prior including those which can contain tesseracts

But she couldn’t predict Super Sonic so she's fodder! Death Battle said so! (Me when I am in misunderstanding a children's story competition and my opponent is Death Battle: )

 

[Remus1998]

but since it's "a computer cyberspace", people will think that is just a powerful gaming PC that has no effect in reality.

Or if you can interact with a standard digital dimension, you can now destroy/manipulate the entirety of cyberspace

I struggle to find a reason why Sage can intake infinite information from Cyber Space but gets overwhelmed by simulating actions of an army wielding medieval-era creations lol

Some one calculated the different number of combinations of items that could be wielded by Bowser's army to be a number that was to the 2199th power, not that it would matter anyways

 

[ShakeResounding]

Some one calculated the different number of combinations of items that could be wielded by Bowser's army to be a number that was to the 2199th power, not that it would matter anyways

That's it. Time for the big guns

Classic Metal, handle this lightwork

 

[Executor_N0]

Or if you can interact with a standard digital dimension, you can now destroy/manipulate the entirety of cyberspace

As a Digimon setting researcher, Sonic Frontiers' reaches so close to the depiction of the Digital World that I feel very close all these misconceptions about the Cyberspace.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Frontiers' Cyber Space and the stuff we gained from it was legit perfect timing

As a Digimon setting researcher, Sonic Frontiers' reaches so close to the depiction of the Digital World that I feel very close all these misconceptions about the Cyberspace.

I know this is unrelated to Sonic, but how is your work in Digimon after those humongous tier upgrade blogs? Are you still actively working on it on VSBW in some manner to affect the pages, or is it all leisurely?

 

[Theuser789]

Alright, the script for the Bowser vs Eggman animation, especially the climax, has been bothering me for awhile now. So I actually bothered to think of a way to make Eggman look better while still having Bowser win. I know limitation budgets exist and all, but this is just me having fun.

It starts right after Fury Grand Star Bowser kills Super Neo and destroys the Egg Fleet. Sage cries out for Metal, but in this version Eggman only has a smug smirk. He orders Sage to take the emeralds to the Death Egg, which she complies. Bowser's troops are confused on why Eggman doesn't look panicked, which is when Eggman reveals he still has the Phantom Ruby with him. The real one.

"I told you before, you oversized turtle! Everything has been according to plan! Now behold, my reality! And it has no places for simpletons like you, vanish!"

Eggman's cockpit moves to the inside the robot, just as when the Death Egg starts to fire. The robot starts to break apart like in the actual one, but that's when the Mega Death Egg Robot from Forces pops out of his chest.



The Mega Death Egg Robot activates the Ruby like Infinite did, and proceeds to wreck house just like him but with no Thwomps to interrupt him. Bowser (already weakned because of Super Neo Metal), proceeds to fight it. However, because he tries to protect his minions from the Ruby's assault, he starts to lose since Eggman doesn't care because everything is an illusion in the first place.

Just as things looks dire, the Death Egg fires and destroys most of Bowser's army (it bothered me Eggman actually firing it at the planet since it would destroy it). Making things go from dire to a living nightmare.

Eggman-drunk on power- orders the Death Egg to fire again, except at Bowser. Sage hesitates on it, thinking it's overkill, but Eggman doesn't care and orders her to fire it anyways.

However, this distraction is what Bowser needed. Because of his efforts to protect his minions, they and Jr managed to get Kamek's wand from the knocked out magikoopa. They use it to make Bowser grow into his giant form.



"Your reality? Don't make me laugh! This reality is mine, so you vanish, scrambled eggs!"

Bowser then punches the Mega Death Robot with the black flash special, except this time they pay homage to re-make of BIS fight against Peach's castle, making the Death Egg Robot fly into space and then destroy the Death Egg right before it fires, destroying both in fireworks.

The ending is the same with Bowser's troops celebrating.

Thoughts on this rushed fanfic I thought up in thirty minutes?

 

[Executor_N0]

I know this is unrelated to Sonic, but how is your work in Digimon after those humongous tier upgrade blogs? Are you still actively working on it on VSBW in some manner to affect the pages, or is it all leisurely?

Funny enough, it's been totally unrelated to VsB for a long time. I don't write blogs for Tier updates; I write them as general Digimon lore resources. Whatever is done with them is unrelated to me. When Digimon finally got the Digital World accepted as Tier 1, that wasn't something I pushed, I just went with "The DW is described as X, so it would be good if that would be acknowledged by the Wiki, what Tier? No idea, decide that yourselves", this is still how I write stuff, I just say what is in the work, how it's interpreted is unrelated to my content.

But in general, it's working. But every time I feel like I have everything, I just get one piece of new content that just changes everything and I need to go back. A few weeks ago I was ready to write some stuff, but a Chinese friend finished scanning some magazines he had used, and he shared them with me. The most complicated part was downloading them, because since he's Chinese he has that all archived on Baidu, and downloading them without a premium account is limited to 40kbps, so I'm still downloading some of the stuff, but even the material I already got is enough for me to change quite a lot of things.

Basically, how a lot of SMT stuff ends up happening thanks to a lot of books that weren't scanned yet and the team had to buy them, it's still being worked on by Digimon fans getting books (Sadly I won't use a few of them because the one in charge of some of the scans dislikes me, so I don't feel comfortable using them).

But the most difficult part is that since I'm always downloading and editing file sizes that are dozens of gigas in size, my Hard Drive just got completely destroyed after so much usage, so in fear of losing all of my data, I'm waiting to update my computer with new storage.

 

[RanHover60]

Tbh while Bowser vs Eggman is still a 10/10 battle for me( Great analysis, great animation, does both sides justice, banger ost, and even alternative scenarios) I always thought the battle was 50/50 so of course I was fine with bowser winning but the way they explained it wasn’t very convincing at least for me. For instance:

• Where did they get the notion that the phantom ruby only made illusions rather than that being one of its multiple abilities? The egg reverie zone certainly wasn’t fake, nor was the portal that transported classic Sonic to Forces. In addition, they talked about how they would use both armies at their full potential, but then brought up the fact it took Eggman multiple weeks to gather the necessary energy to gain his light man form, contradicting that first point while ignoring the fact that the time stones or chaos emeralds could be used to gather the energy by accelerating time. They also ignored all of Light man Eggman’s hax that could incapacitate wonder bowser who doesn’t even use transmutation that frequently iirc.
• Why did they downplay Sage as much as they did in that vid? They glossed over the fact that Cyberspace is pretty explicitly composed of infinite information that Sage was able to process along with the fact that Sage wouldn’t even have to account for Bowser’s army no matter how huge it was because for the most part they were non factors. They would be completely fodder to the top tier stuff both sides had and along with possessing almost no threatening hax. There’s also the fact that Sage’s cyberspace bfr was also blatantly shown to be sealing and corruption that no one on bowser’s side could resist or escape even. Her control over Eggman’s entire army meant that they would overall be much more organised and cohesive than Bowser’s army and protect them from potential possession from King boo and meant that the loyalty was a non factor as all his robots could be controlled. Add that to the fact that Bowser had no way of even interacting with her and it shows that they downplayed how much of a vital part of the battle Sage actually was for Eggman’s side.
• As for Kamek, while they acknowledged that Eggman also had ways to steal Bowser’s items, they completely ignored that he had blockite to completely wall off Kamek’s ability to steal from him. Even if Kamek could shuffle the chaos emeralds around, it’s been shown multiple times that the chaos emeralds are naturally attracted to those who have an affinity for chaos energy and stealing them wouldn’t be possible while the emeralds are absorbed by metal sonic in his super state. Add that to the fact that the chaos emeralds can undo transmutation and it makes Kamek another non factor.
• Speaking of the emeralds, they literally do everything or counter everything Bowser’s macguffins do. The pure hearts can restore space and time? So can the emeralds. The dream stone erasing people from existence? Solaris and Time eater can erase things on a much more potent level and bigger scale, which the emeralds can protect from and some characters like metal sonic can resist. The wonder flower’s transmutation can be undone by the emrald as seen by the metal virus’ transmutation being undone by the emeralds. Finally, the star rod providing the user invincibility is a basic thing that the emeralds provide to a super form, who then can hurt other super forms who can also be hurt by the phantom ruby. On top of the things the emeralds can do that Bowser has no answer for or being able to undo any potential deaths.

I’m not going to talk about physical stats since overall they put both on an even level which I can agree with but the things above were the things I disagreed with (sorry for the yap).

 

[Theuser789]

Wonder Bowser NEVER used transmutation in Wonder.

 

[RanHover60]

That’s even worse

 

[ShakeResounding]

I hope no other Sonic character appears on DB (eh, Archie is fine and I don't really care much but Archie Knux vs Juggs works even if Knuckles loses).

But if they DID, I want Moro in the kitchen again

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

You know what else are one off moments, those gem stones that allowed Sonic to become elastic when he was squished by a boulder. Yet those are included in his profile. Even if it is a one-off moment, it has been utilized in a manner where we see Sonic defeat Eggman so it rightfully should be warranted as an ability of his. Adding onto this, we see in Sonic Live that Sonic is literally pulling real world humans into his world from a TV which supports the case even more. Off-Panel is nothing like author insertion due to there being exclusive enemies present like Deadline and even then, we see characters deciding how the plot would be dictated within the Comic itself. The reason why it's considered more than just an Omake let alone something that would be qualified as Outerversial is due to how the cosmology of the verse itself supports higher dimensional planes of reality (some of which has merit for being Outerversial but SOME MODS love to cherry-pick definitions and interpretations to make it now the case whatsoever. Definitely one of my major critiques regarding what gets approved on the site and what doesn't along with how it would be interpreted. Powerscaling is mostly subjective with some objective elements after all so scale it however you like) and in general is complex as hell. That's not even getting into how it's connected to the Image Comics Multiverse which is already its own can of worms.

I disagree. The case against it doesn't make sense other than because of lack of appearances. The implications present and power sources present to power Sonic do hold a stronger case for Ultra Sonic > Super Sonic. Now, feel free to disagree of course. Powerscaling is subjective with some objective elements after all.

The way I see it, all Seven Super Emeralds Super Sonic > Regular Super Sonic (includes Post-Great Harmony and Post-Genesis Wave) and if one Super Emerald can turn Sonic into Super Sonic AND Ultra Sonic, then it makes sense that all Seven Super Emeralds would just do the same thing but MUCH stronger.

Well....usually if all Seven are needed to obtain a Super Form yet a single Super Emerald is able to do so, I'd say that a single Super Emerald > All 7 Chaos Emeralds. Regarding the utilized for emergencies argument, usually they bet on the Seven Chaos Emeralds due to them being more easily accessible which in the context of the stories, was able to win against the big bad threats. Used for emergencies is typically structured to where even the Chaos Emeralds are not enough or if they have to rely on another sort of power source (Super Emeralds). I do agree that them being early on in the comics does make things even more complicated for accurate powerscaling, but from what we have seen, the stronger case here is Ultra Sonic > Super Sonic thanks to the power source of the Super Emerald being utilized. I understand why you disagree here, but I don't see how that isn't clear cut other than lack of screen time. I wouldn't say it's a vague implication when we've seen it right in front of our eyes in issue 71. I also disagree regarding Super Sonic not being relevant back then. We've seen Super Sonic and Super Knuckles clash so hard to the point where an entire zone exploded and they both fought against Mammoth Mogul alongside Super Tails.

I think it is when you're trying to compare more complex fights found in Dragon Ball fights vs with more streamlined and straight-forward fights like Sonic. Wank is definitely a reach here since at worst, it's not out of the question and has a nice foundation compared to just wand-waiving it as something less than Super. Ultra Sonic is very similar to Hyper Sonic in that it barely comes up at all yet are both supplied by a superior power source being the Super Emeralds making them more powerful than Super Sonic. As I've stated before, it should count towards being utilized in cases of emergencies due to how sometimes the Chaos Emeralds are either not enough or unavailable where they needed to utilize a different power source. Even then, when they utilized the Chaos Emeralds, we see that they always pull through so there was never any need to utilize Ultra Sonic. The way that Ultra Sonic works is that it has a much greater connection to the Ixis Magicks compared to Super Sonic while also due to it being above Super Sonic thanks to the Super Emerald, the form allows for perfect mastery over Chaos Energy. The Ixis Magicks has HEAVY amounts of Atomic Manipulation. We've seen Ixis Naugus utilize such abilities on both in-organic and organic material (see when he turned Bunny Rabot's robotic parts to flesh and blood) to which we've seen Sonic scale to and surpass with his Super and Ultra Forms. In other words, Ultra Sonic has Greater Atomic and Elemental Manipulation compared to Super Sonic but also obtains new powers such as BFR and Adaptation to thrive more in different environments. That's not to say that Super is unable to thrive in said environment, but Ultra Sonic tailors specifically to survive in that environment while also allowing for easier traversal. Also, Ultra Sonic can fly as well. Super Sonic can use Sealing. Not BFR. Ultra Sonic can do BFR into the Zone of Silence. In other words, there is exclusivity for Ultra Sonic that Super Sonic does not have but that's irrelevant when Ultra Sonic already has everything Super Sonic has and more (even if it isn't too much in comparison). When it comes to why doesn't Super Sonic just reality warp in comparison to Ultra Sonic manipulating atoms, you don't need to fix a smaller solution with a bigger hammer depending on the situation. That's not to say the bigger hammer wouldn't work, but it's more impractical in comparison. Again, I disagree with it being useless when compared to Super Sonic. Super Sonic being able to do all that it has shown (all of which being impressive) yet thanks to Ultra Sonic being above it (thank you Super Emerald), makes Ultra Sonic a little bit more impressive even if it hasn't been shown as much in comparison.

Yeah.....I don't blame you for this. The way I go about it is that I only take powerscaling statements when it's either used in conjunction to explain lore-related things, meant to clarify events that had happened within the comics, or if it lines up with already established evidence present within the comics in general. That's one of the reasons I agree with Ian Flynn stating that Ultra Sonic > Super Sonic espeically when it's been implied and shown through the superior power source being the Super Emerald powering Sonic but WHOLE HEARTELY disagree with him saying Dark Enerjak > Ultra Sonic because of it being a potentially cool narrative and nothing else. Ultra Sonic > Dark Enerjak any and all day.

Well.....now that I've finished my giant long reply. The only thing I have left to say is what I've said before. Powerscaling is mostly subjective with some objective elements. So scale it however you like whether you agree or disagree.

Dude, I'm really not going to read all of this. You gotta learn to break up paragraphs so it's easier to read because this is way too much. Firstly, onto the one-off powers. That isn't at all a good argument. We know Sonic is a cartoon-esque character. He has squash and stretch-esque physics and there's a CLEAR difference between having some amount of toon physics and having the power to rewrite or edit his own story REGULARLY as if that's a regular thing he can do and something that's combat applicable. Sonic pulling real humans into the real world isn't applicable either. It isn't some regular thing he does and there is a huge difference in the severity between toon-esque physics and this.

Also, you keep bringing up the Off-Panel as if you're going somewhere with the whole "It's 1-A" thing. It's literally not. You'd have to scale Arale to 1-A or more in that case since she beat up Toribot. But again, it's really played off for laughs/a gag. It isn't anything that's actually affecting the real story at large in any real way. The only time is sort of does is with Deadline, but that doesn't just make him 1-A. That story, henceforth, did not have any real long-term impact or really ANY impact on the main story whatsoever and never brought up again. Doesn't even scale to the actual story even if it WAS 1-A, so it's a useless argument. And please, DON'T get started on crossover moments. They literally do not scale because nobody of actual note was fought in those comics to scale Sonic higher and the Super Genesis Wave wouldn't even REACH those comic worlds. Archie does NOT have that kind of pull to effect other comic verses in any way other than making appearances and maybe fighting some villains, which almost never happened. This just feels like a reach argument, so I'll ignore it.


The Super Emerald being more than all 7 Chaos Emeralds is just headcanon. No real basis for that other than straight vibes, so I'm not going to consider it valid whatsoever. It's unable to really even be scaled, like, at all. They're barely even there, hardly used, and never show off any actual power. All we know is one Super Emerald is stronger than at least one Chaos Emerald. You literally cannot scale its power as it is practically featless with the only KEY feat being them being used to turn Super Sonic along with Issue 71. Which brings me to a segue. Ultra Sonic supplied by a "superior power source", but only ONE of them and we don't even know the comparison in power between one Super Emerald and one Chaos Emerald. Ultra Sonic, the more you look at it, has questionable scaling and functions that needs to be filled in with some headcanon while Hyper Sonic, right out the box and by lore, is stronger than Super Sonic. We don't need to make any assumptions about Hyper Sonic as it is powered by seven upgraded Chaos Emeralds. Even if you want to say for the SPLIT second Sonic went Super Sonic in Issue 71, that doesn't give superiority over the Super Form even still. Assuming what you say would be correct, that would mean one Super Emerald would be equal to 7 Chaos Emeralds. Not superior. Ultra Sonic just doesn't have feats on his own to back up being stronger than Super Sonic and this is literally just correct, sorry to say.

Also, I didn't mean it wasn't relevant in prior or future comics, I meant in that instance.

Again, Issue 71 still has the vague implication that it MIGHT be, but never shows anything that Super Sonic couldn't do either. All it did was do some basic-ahh elemental stuff that Super Sonic could easily just do by warping reality or using literally any of its relevant powers that are objectively way better. Ultra Sonic just feels like a diet Super Sonic that allows some benefits of it while giving more specific abilities that someone with Super Sonic (who doesn't KNOW how to use their reality warping that way) couldn't do. Just feels like a simplified toolkit, but never shown to be objectively stronger. Super Sonic could most likely easily manipulate atoms utilizing Chaos Control as seen when Enerjak did that very same thing. Manipulating atoms and environmental adaptation is largely USELESS to Super Sonic. Why would Super Sonic need to adapt to any environment if he's literally invulnerable passively, can literally fly, and realistically would not be hindered by environmental hazards or difficult terrain if he could either just barrel through it or fly over it. It's like giving an all-powerful god a normal human gun. Why does he NEED it?

Ultra Sonic's BFR is easily emulated as well by just controlling space-time with the Emeralds, ripping open a rift, and throwing him in there. Not only that, but ONE Chaos Emerald is enough to create a normal Genesis Wave. Someone could realistically do WHATEVER they wanted with a Genesis Wave, let alone a SUPER Genesis Wave. I don't see the use in it when Super Sonic could just do the same thing.

Anyway, I think this argument is becoming cyclic. Believe me or don't, I really don't care. I'll end this debate here as there's no real use in going in circles and saying the same things with no conclusion or agreement being made.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Anyway, I still don't see Doom Shadow being equal to Super Sonic. The Bumblecast thing doesn't exactly prove anything even then. "Saving all of creation" as a statement is so general considering circumstances of Shadow Generations. That's like saying "well, this guy is AT LEAST stronger than an ant". Like, we already know that all of creation may have been screwed if Black Doom won because he's take Shadow's body and essentially reach his Perfect Form (TM), go onto the other White Space while the other cast are doing things, crash the party, and then mess everything up even more. Like, we KNOW the ramifications of Black Doom's victory. We KNOW what he'd do as well. Why wouldn't he go after the Chaos Emeralds as well? He already would have one of them due to Shadow, so it's just natural to get the others.

Again, I just don't see the strength comparison unless there is 100% cold hard proof.

 

[Omegabronic]

Anyway, I still don't see Doom Shadow being equal to Super Sonic. The Bumblecast thing doesn't exactly prove anything even then. "Saving all of creation" as a statement is so general considering circumstances of Shadow Generations. That's like saying "well, this guy is AT LEAST stronger than an ant". Like, we already know that all of creation may have been screwed if Black Doom won because he's take Shadow's body and essentially reach his Perfect Form (TM), go onto the other White Space while the other cast are doing things, crash the party, and then mess everything up even more. Like, we KNOW the ramifications of Black Doom's victory. We KNOW what he'd do as well. Why wouldn't he go after the Chaos Emeralds as well? He already would have one of them due to Shadow, so it's just natural to get the others.

Again, I just don't see the strength comparison unless there is 100% cold hard proof.

Adventure Devil Doom = Super Shadow amp, as it coulf fight Adventure Super Shadow, Modern Devil Doom as such would be comparable to Modern Super Shadow as modern Doom is compable to base Modern Shadow

 

[Theuser789]

But you don't believe super forms vary from each era, Omega.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Adventure Devil Doom = Super Shadow amp, as it coulf fight Adventure Super Shadow, Modern Devil Doom as such would be comparable to Modern Super Shadow as modern Doom is compable to base Modern Shadow

We already had this argument before and my mind has not changed. I said my thoughts and I'm not convinced even still.

 

[Alexander]

"the problem is that people are evil, no matter the culture or ideology or gender, people will be Evil in some way"

 

[Omegabronic]

But you don't believe super forms vary from each era, Omega.

varying doesn't meant they don't have a minimum for their power.....which i recently made it accepted

 

[Theuser789]

varying doesn't meant they don't have a minimum for their power.....which i recently made it accepted

But "Adventure" super form and "modern" super forms don't exist with a variable tier.

 

[Executor_N0]

But you don't believe super forms vary from each era, Omega.

Honestly, it feels so clear that the Super Forms vary in power, as everything regarding the Chaos Emeralds do. The emeralds aren't just a set power boost, they are alive, and they are the very source of life itself, so they are very chaotic by nature. If anything, thinking the Chaos Emeralds are always the same thing as the super forms would go against the very idea of the emeralds. They are very adaptable.

 

[Omegabronic]

But "Adventure" super form and "modern" super forms don't exist with a variable tier.

of course they do, the minimum power is the same, so if the base form is stronger, said minimal power will also be higher for the Super Form itself, since it will be adding to a greater base then before

 

[Theuser789]

But that's just 2-C by itself.

 

[Chianli]

I thought that grand finale remix? cover? idk, what ever version or rendition is that, that scared the shit out of me, I thought It was brothership spoilers, anyways, what are u guys talking about?

 

[Omegabronic]

But that's just 2-C by itself;

yeah, but still Super Form level, specially when on top of a Base form that is already 2-C

 

[Theuser789]

I thought that grand finale remix? cover? idk, what ever version or rendition is that, that scared the shit out of me, I thought It was brothership spoilers, anyways, what are u guys talking about?

No, that was just a random cover I found. That post is just a small rewritte of the climax of Bowser vs Eggman to actually make Eggman do something in a mech rather than just stand there doing nothing, and to make him smarter and more competent, too.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Yeah it was that one. Idk why I remembered it 100% objectively as a “destroy” statement though, since watching it again I can see “save all of creation” being read as either Black Doom destroying or conquering. I still see it more as the former though, and either way that should still involve the Time Eater and is good enough support for the Sonic Channel thing.

do you mean the tails statement in reference to time eater?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I have to point out, there's a difference between what several staff members say the Super Forms varied tier means and what people here say it means.

For the staff it's the same as with mario it at least what he once had, it's super inconsistent so they really of the feats of the other character. To them it is not an in universe distinction

Here people insist it is a in universe distinction that the emotions that vary for powering the chaos emeralds are what makes the difference there for any statment of a full power super sonic is the highest tier (where as with the mods interpretation of events that statment wouldn't apply to anything as in universe he is always at full power said power is just inconsistent)

I don't believe "what is accepted" matters in this instance as a reply sense said mod I saw this from said they planned to make a revision removing the changes accepted vai this reasoning.

 

[Omegabronic]

I have to point out, there's a difference between what several staff members say the Super Forms varied tier means and what people here say it means.

For the staff it's the same as with mario it at least what he once had, it's super inconsistent so they really of the feats of the other character. To them it is not an in universe distinction

That isn't true, it isn't because of inconsistencies, it is because of several in verse explnations about how the Emeralds work, that is precisely why they even gained the rating

Here people insist it is a in universe distinction that the emotions that vary for powering the chaos emeralds are what makes the difference there for any statment of a full power super sonic is the highest tier (where as with the mods interpretation of events that statment wouldn't apply to anything as in universe he is always at full power said power is just inconsistent)

again, that isn't true, we got the varies via Empowerment due to in verse explanation and mechanics

I don't believe "what is accepted" matters in this instance as a reply sense said mod I saw this from said they planned to make a revision removing the changes accepted vai this reasoning.

.....what?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

That isn't true, it isn't because of inconsistencies, it is because of several in verse explnations about how the Emeralds work, that is precisely why they even gained the rating


again, that isn't true, we got the varies via Empowerment due to in verse explanation and mechanics


.....what?

I'm only saying what I've seen mods say, you can say it isn't true all you want. You believe what you believe and they believe what they believe.

 

[Omegabronic]

I'm only saying what I've seen mods say, you can say it isn't true all you want. You believe what you believe and they believe what they believe.

They would be wrong then

 

[Darkmon_cns]

They would be wrong then

The revision will come,if your unwilling to even take a moment to consider there perspective they will probably succeed.

 

[Theuser789]

I have never seen a single mod wanting to take out variable tier for super forms.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I have never seen a single mod wanting to take out variable tier for super forms.

I didn't say they did? I was pointing out that variable tier being interpreted differently

 

[Omegabronic]

The revision will come,if your unwilling to even take a moment to consider there perspective they will probably succeed.

.........then we will point out the accepted mechanic and end the revision.....as the mechanic is already accepted

 

[Darkmon_cns]

.........then we will point out the accepted mechanic and end the revision.....as the mechanic is already accepted

The revision will literally be about rejecting that mechanic as a componet that isn't going to work