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Sol Badguy vs Ren Amamiya

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Huh. You were serious.

Anyways, what's Sol's info manip potency again? I heard it was higher-dimensional so I'm not sure whether Ren can even resist that. Also, how does his Power Null work?

Just going off of the profile, I think Ren has the AP advantage, and a massive one at that, since Sol seems to be baseline. Nevermind, Sol's 20x baseline, so he almost definitely has the advantage. Not enough to one-shot, but definitely notable.

Ren could potentially destroy Sol's soul to bypass his immortality. Depends if said soul can regenerate from direct damage to itself.

Sol resists practically all of Ren's hax except for Death Manip, so Joker would have to use Hama/Mudo or one of their variations.

Withholding my vote for now.
 
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Solacis said:
Huh. You were serious.
Anyways, what's Sol's info manip potency again? I heard it was higher-dimensional so I'm not sure whether Ren can even resist that. Also, how does his Power Null work?

Just going off of the profile, I think Ren has the AP advantage, and a massive one at that, since Sol seems to be baseline. So Ren could potentially destroy Sol's soul to bypass his immortality. Depends if said soul can regenerate from direct damage to itself.

Sol resists practically all of Ren's hax except for Death Manip, so Joker would have to use Hama/Mudo or one of their variations.

Withholding my vote for now.
Sol's Info Hax is Higher Dimensional, It scales to destroy not only Info Manip the normal Universe, but also The Backyard, which is a Higher-Dimension. As far as AP goes, Sol is 20x above Baseline, and I'm pretty sure there is a scaling chain behind it, you can ask other experts for more information
 
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Yeah I remembered the AP from Ky vs Joker. Edited my post above.

Is it really Higher-Dimensional though? Not doubting the conclusions of the knowledgeables, but if it is, why is Sol still only "3-A, possibly Low 2-C"?
 
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The Backyard is still apart of the Universe, just...a higher part of the Universe with it's own space-time continuim. Though honestly, Sol should be 2-C due to the backyard having subsequent "layers" which likely means Universes.
 
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But how would it be a higher part of the universe if it's got it's own space-time? Wouldn't it just be connected alternate universe? I'm honestly curious.
 
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So it's basically the same as the Collective Unconscious. Yeah, Ren resists the info manip just fine.

So Sol has a notable AP advantage over Ren, but it's not enough to one-shot, so Ren can just heal back to full HP with a thought if he gets it.

How quickly does Sol go for stuff like Transmutation, Deconstruction, Petrification or Sealing? Ren defaults to his deathhax fairly quickly since one side of it falls under his natural element, and said deathhax should also affect Sol down to his soul. What's his resistance scaling like for mind/soul manip?
 
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Sol's resistances come from surviving in the backyard numerous times, in Guilty Gear Isuka, and later in Guilty Gear 2 Overture, by the time of Guilty Gear Xrd all of Sol's Powers and resistances passively grow due to his limiter head band losing it's effects. So his resistances should be equal to his AP and as I said before, I'm pretty sure there is a scaling chain behind the AP. Is the collective unconciousness or the Cognitive Universe 4-D?
 
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Also the Deconstruction is Passive via inducing Absolute World, which along with Deconstruction is also Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Death Manipulation and Existence Erasure. As for the other haxes like Transmutation, Petrification or Sealing. He doesn't really tend to go to that stuff, honestly I'm not entirely sure he even has it, since it comes from making a weapon that can do those things. That's more of Ky's shtick, when things get tough.
 
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Joker resists everything else caused by Absolute World except for Deconstruction. How often does Sol go for it?

The CU is 4D, yes. Just double-checked with the other knowledgeables. As for resistances, if they really scale to Sol's AP, then he should be able to resist Ren's mind/soul/info manip. He doesn't resist death manip though, and Ren goes for that fairly quickly.
 
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Oblivion Of The Endless said:
>He doesnt resist death manip
But he does
I didn't see it on the profile, sorry.

Then I'm not sure what wincons Ren could have here. At best, he defends himself from Sol's higher AP with physical reflects and nulls, and eventually destroy Sol's soul, but that would be difficult.
 
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Gotcha, I just noticed above that Sol has passive deconstruction. Will Ren be fine with handling not feeling so good?
 
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Idk, pretty sure all magic in GG is Info Manip. I guess Ren should be fine not feeling the Thanos effect.
 
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So, can Sol deal with Persona's invul+AE Type 1 existence?

Because Ren could just Megidola/Megidolaon, bypass his resistances, reflections, barriers, and invulnurabilities.
 
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Aight I am on mobile a lot these days so checking profiles can be iffy does Ren resist sealing?

@Dark I'll try and take a look later sorry
 
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Milly Rocking Bandit said:
So, can Sol deal with Persona's invul+AE Type 1 existence?
Because Ren could just Megidola/Megidolaon, bypass his resistances, reflections, barriers, and invulnurabilities.
That's a thing that needs to be discussed actually. Abstract Existence does exist in Guilty Gear, it just needs to be changed. Also, no the Deconstruction is not caused by Information Flare, it's caused by the Absolute World Phenomenon as a side effect, and it differs from Matter Manip so Ren shouldn't resist it.
 
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Bware1 said:
Milly Rocking Bandit said:
So, can Sol deal with Persona's invul+AE Type 1 existence?
Because Ren could just Megidola/Megidolaon, bypass his resistances, reflections, barriers, and invulnurabilities.
That's a thing that needs to be discussed actually. Abstract Existence does exist in Guilty Gear, it just needs to be changed. Also, no the Deconstruction is not caused by Information Flare, it's caused by the Absolute World Phenomenon as a side effect, and it differs from Matter Manip so Ren shouldn't resist it.
What makes it so different? Because as far as I can tell, Deconstruction can only destroy matter. Matter manipulation can create and destroy it.
 
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Deconstruction doesn't just affect matter,it can also affect non-corperal objects or beings such as the very soul. Their fundimentally different, it's similar to matter hax, but not Matter Hax. Even then Guilty Gear's Matter Hax is on a Macro-Quantum scale.
 
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That was just an example. Saying Deconstruction and Matter Hax are the same thing is like saying Law Manipulation is just Reality Warping and can be resisted through normal Reality Warping means. Also they resist matter hax, but to what scale, assuming they resist nearly the strongest type is a bit of NLF.
 
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Stillwinston said:
Aight I am on mobile a lot these days so checking profiles can be iffy does Ren resist sealing?
@Dark I'll try and take a look later sorry
Oh I just noticed something from the OP, you can't restrict Sol's Dragon Install. Otherwise, the result of the match can't be added to the profiles. The only time it's ok to restrict abilities is if they fall under or result in a seperate key. Sol's DI falls under both of his keys
 
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Huh I thought you can restrict stuff if it makes you higher like Netflix Trevor's Dual Whip Explosion, alright its allowed but he starts in base though.
 
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Nah, that's like taking away a Saiyan's Transformations from DB, Final Fantasy's Limit Breaks, or Fate's Noble Phantasms. You can restrict it if it results in a seperate key, but not if it makes you higher in the same key. In some cases it would be taking away a win con, but yeah starting in base is fair.
 
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Is the Deconstruction/Absolute World passive? If it isn't, Ren has a chance. But if it is, this is GG in Sol's favor.
 
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Absolute World and by extension the Deconstuction is Passive yes., It's the very reason Sol is 3-A possibly Low 2-C in the first place.
 
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I see, then in that case this is a stomp in Sol's favor.

Although, now that I look at the Deconstruction page, I realize that Yaldabaoth's EE is partially Deconstruction. I'll have to discuss with the others, but for now, this match goes to Sol.
 
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Well then, this should be closed. On top of that Guilty Gear needs to under-go revisions as some of the profiles need to be cleaned up and fleshed out, Sol's included.
 
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