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Slime Fight! (Venom Ooze vs Melting Love)

Venom Ooze, as an 8-B CR 12, scales to Spellcaster Lowers Water: 43.46 Tons of TNT, City Block level

Melting Love scales to.... At least City Block level (Far superior to Abnormalities like Meat Lantern)
Meat Lantern seems to scale to 192,805,182,835.4589 joules. Or City Block level. So, "Far superior to 46.0815447 tons of TNT"?

Melting Love also has:
Regeneration (Mid-High, possibly High. Can regenerate from being turned into ashes. Possibly comparable to WhiteNight)
The Regeneration page describes that level of Regeneration as: Mid-High: The ability to regenerate from having all biology completely incinerated. This includes being reduced to ash, dust, smoke, vapor, or plasma.

Transmutation (Can transform beings it touches into slime followers)

I don't know if Venom Ooze have any Resistance to Transmutation feats. Knowing D&D, they probably have some basis for Resisting it, but....
Melting Love also has this: Resistance Negation (Can ignore resistance to physical and mental attacks)

Venom Ooze does seem to Resist that....
Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Oozes have no mind to effect[3]), Illusion Creation (Shown here[3]), Pressure Points (Can't be hit critically[3], i.e weak points), Poison Manipulation (Shown here[3]), Transmutation (Oozes can't be effected by Polymorph[3]), Status Effect Inducement (Oozes can't be stunned[3])

....Among other things I didn't quote that are listed since they might not be relevant here in this match, but I'm concerned Venom Ooze's Level of Resistance might not be enough.


Will Melting Love's Transmutation be triggered against something that's already a slime? Would it think to do so?

If it doesn't get triggered, then.... Well, I don't see a Resistance to Poison Manipulation for Melting Love, but AFAIK, said Poison's only feats are the statements "Its poisonous secretions quickly weaken and suffocate prey" & "Each hour a venom ooze remains submerged in a body of water, it contaminates 10 cubic feet, making the liquid still, foul, and unable to sustain animal life. The corrupted water becomes poisonous (ingested, Fort DC 26, 1d6 Con/1d6 Con)."

Given how amorphous they seem, I wonder how much of the sludge that is Melting Love, & perhaps even Venom Ooze itself, are comprised of water.


Either way, I feel like this might be a stomp. Venom Ooze is mindless, so it won't know any better than to try & eat Melting Love, who, even if they don't auto-transmute into a slime follower when Melting Love & Venom Ooze make contact, still has an AP advantage, better Regeneration, & I'm not sure if Venom Ooze's Poison is potent enough to secure a win.
 
Imaginym said:
Will Melting Love's Transmutation be triggered against something that's already a slime? Would it think to do so?
Click to expand...
I mean, the ooze is already resistant to transmutation so not really
Imaginym said:
The Regeneration page describes that level of Regeneration as: Mid-High: The ability to regenerate from having all biology completely incinerated. This includes being reduced to ash, dust, smoke, vapor, or plasma.
Click to expand...
Oh don't worry, that's not combat applicable and completely calms her down {It also takes a while}
Imaginym said:
Either way, I feel like this might be a stomp. Venom Ooze is mindless, so it won't know any better than to try & eat Melting Love, who, even if they don't auto-transmute into a slime follower when Melting Love & Venom Ooze make contact, still has an AP advantage, better Regeneration, & I'm not sure if Venom Ooze's Poison is potent enough to secure a win.
Click to expand...
See point above. Also that mindlessness is what's protecting it from madness and fear
 
Peppersalt43 said:
I mean, the ooze is already resistant to transmutation so not really
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean. Melting Love wouldn't be aware of the foe's Resistances before they come up in the match without Prior Knowledge.
Peppersalt43 said:
Oh don't worry, that's not combat applicable and completely calms her down {It also takes a while}
Click to expand...
More details?
Peppersalt43 said:
See point above. Also that mindlessness is what's protecting it from madness and fear
Click to expand...
I'm aware.
 
Imaginym said:
More details?
Click to expand...
When an abnormality is beaten down during their rampage, they will regenerate in their containment cell. And since this is the aggressive key of Melting Love, she will come back as a more docile version of herself, unable to cause direct harm
Imaginym said:
Not sure what you mean. Melting Love wouldn't be aware of the foe's Resistances before they come up in the match without Prior Knowledge.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I was commenting on whether or not it will work. Yeah, she'll probably try to transmute her opponent before realizing it won't work
 
Peppersalt43 said:
When an abnormality is beaten down during their rampage, they will regenerate in their containment cell. And since this is the aggressive key of Melting Love, she will come back as a more docile version of herself, unable to cause direct harm
Click to expand...
I see.
Peppersalt43 said:
Oh yeah, I was commenting on whether or not it will work. Yeah, she'll probably try to transmute her opponent before realizing it won't work
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't it work? Can't she make other types of slimes into slime followers?
 
Imaginym said:
Why wouldn't it work? Can't she make other types of slimes into slime followers?
Click to expand...
Because resistance to transmutation? Melting Love the only one capable of doing Transmutation and nobody has resisted it efficiently so it's mostly baseline
 
I guess the remaining questions become:

1. Does AP matter here? Both are amorphous blobs that basically approach to try & make the other die.
2. How do we consider the LS & Stamina?
Melting Love:
Lifting Strength: (Unknown)
Stamina: Unknown (Never shown to tire)
Venom Ooze:
Lifting Strength: Class 5 (Can push 4.17305 tons at max)
Stamina: Infinite
(With no justification listed in the Stamina section for the Infinite Stamina?)

How much would they weigh? Would LS matter? Is there any way to make Melting Love's LS less Unknown? & if Melting Love is never shown to tire, what Stamina feats does it have?
3. What about Venom Ooze's poison?

In theory, if ML doesn't have combat applicable Regeneration, its Transmutation gets Resisted, then it just turns into 2 slimes pushing against one another, with Venom Ooze having that poison, & Melting Love having an AP advantage.

AFAIK, said Poison's only feats are the statements "Its poisonous secretions quickly weaken and suffocate prey" & "Each hour a venom ooze remains submerged in a body of water, it contaminates 10 cubic feet, making the liquid still, foul, and unable to sustain animal life. The corrupted water becomes poisonous (ingested, Fort DC 26, 1d6 Con/1d6 Con)."

The AP matchup seems to be:

Venom Ooze, as an 8-B CR 12, scales to Spellcaster Lowers Water: 43.46 Tons of TNT, City Block level

Melting Love scales to.... At least City Block level (Far superior to Abnormalities like Meat Lantern)
Meat Lantern seems to scale to 192,805,182,835.4589 joules. Or City Block level. So, "Far superior to 46.0815447 tons of TNT"?


So does anything stop Venom Ooze & Melting Love from colliding, Venom Ooze poisononing on contact, & then using its Class 5 LS vs Unknown LS matchup to push Melting Love off of itself while Melting Love gradually weakens then dies?
Or does Melting Love have some kind of counter to this "Poison & push away" "strategy"?
I say "strategy" because it seems like something that could just happen naturally from them colliding, as they would almost certainly try, if it doesn't turn into some kind of gross, slime wrestling/mutal devouring match, but at that point, I'm not sure if AP is relevant, because isn't that more just digestive juices & stuff? Or trying to push one's own slime through the other, but that seems like a matter of Lifting Strength.

Or could Melting Love somehow defeat Venom Ooze before the Poison weakening Melting Love makes it die/become too weak to win?

It may also be notable that Venom Ooze has this: Regeneration (Low-Mid; Should be able to heal[2] from that level of injury)


Oh, & I guess there's Range?
Melting Love:
Range: Extended melee range
Venom Ooze:
Range: Melee range

But neither have justifications, so I don't know how/if Range is relevant here.
 
Imaginym said:
(With no justification listed in the Stamina section for the Infinite Stamina?)
Click to expand...
Can be. I mean, it never stops its rampage until it's beaten down
Imaginym said:
1. Does AP matter here? Both are amorphous blobs that basically approach to try & make the other die.
Click to expand...
Not sure but remember that Melting Love doesn't attack conventionally, she deals BLACK damage which essentially requires bypasses conventional resistance so it can probably hit the ooze where it hurts

That's mostly her best answer to the ooze's attacks
 
Peppersalt43 said:
Can be. I mean, it never stops its rampage until it's beaten down

Not sure but remember that Melting Love doesn't attack conventionally, she deals BLACK damage which essentially requires bypasses conventional resistance so it can probably hit the ooze where it hurts
Click to expand...
BLACK Damage: All of its attacks deal "Black" damage, meaning they will both damage the person physically and mentally at the same time. When their mental health gets low enough, opponents will go insane, either committing suicide, fleeing, or lashing out at everything around them. This type of attack also ignores resistances to physical and mental damage, requiring specific resistance to BLACK damage.


....I'm a little confused about this, because....
Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Oozes have no mind to effect[3])
 
Peppersalt43 said:
There, it ignores physical resistance
Click to expand...
Yeah, but attacking the Mind of something that doesn't have a Mind?
I guess it just ignores Physical Resistance? (Assuming D&D Resistances don't somehow give better Resistance against Physical Damage/Resistance Negation.)
 
JustANormalLemon said:
So... what are the wincons here?
Click to expand...
I went over it in at least one my earlier posts. One of the more recent relevant posts:
Imaginym said:
I guess the remaining questions become:

1. Does AP matter here? Both are amorphous blobs that basically approach to try & make the other die.
2. How do we consider the LS & Stamina?
Melting Love:
Lifting Strength: (Unknown)
Stamina: Unknown (Never shown to tire)
Venom Ooze:
Lifting Strength: Class 5 (Can push 4.17305 tons at max)
Stamina: Infinite
(With no justification listed in the Stamina section for the Infinite Stamina?)

How much would they weigh? Would LS matter? Is there any way to make Melting Love's LS less Unknown? & if Melting Love is never shown to tire, what Stamina feats does it have?
3. What about Venom Ooze's poison?

In theory, if ML doesn't have combat applicable Regeneration, its Transmutation gets Resisted, then it just turns into 2 slimes pushing against one another, with Venom Ooze having that poison, & Melting Love having an AP advantage.

AFAIK, said Poison's only feats are the statements "Its poisonous secretions quickly weaken and suffocate prey" & "Each hour a venom ooze remains submerged in a body of water, it contaminates 10 cubic feet, making the liquid still, foul, and unable to sustain animal life. The corrupted water becomes poisonous (ingested, Fort DC 26, 1d6 Con/1d6 Con)."

The AP matchup seems to be:

Venom Ooze, as an 8-B CR 12, scales to Spellcaster Lowers Water: 43.46 Tons of TNT, City Block level

Melting Love scales to.... At least City Block level (Far superior to Abnormalities like Meat Lantern)
Meat Lantern seems to scale to 192,805,182,835.4589 joules. Or City Block level. So, "Far superior to 46.0815447 tons of TNT"?


So does anything stop Venom Ooze & Melting Love from colliding, Venom Ooze poisononing on contact, & then using its Class 5 LS vs Unknown LS matchup to push Melting Love off of itself while Melting Love gradually weakens then dies?
Or does Melting Love have some kind of counter to this "Poison & push away" "strategy"?
I say "strategy" because it seems like something that could just happen naturally from them colliding, as they would almost certainly try, if it doesn't turn into some kind of gross, slime wrestling/mutal devouring match, but at that point, I'm not sure if AP is relevant, because isn't that more just digestive juices & stuff? Or trying to push one's own slime through the other, but that seems like a matter of Lifting Strength.

Or could Melting Love somehow defeat Venom Ooze before the Poison weakening Melting Love makes it die/become too weak to win?

It may also be notable that Venom Ooze has this: Regeneration (Low-Mid; Should be able to heal[2] from that level of injury)


Oh, & I guess there's Range?
Melting Love:
Range: Extended melee range
Venom Ooze:
Range: Melee range

But neither have justifications, so I don't know how/if Range is relevant here.
Click to expand...
If you can't be bothered to read that, a... my attempt at re-summarizing things goes something like this:

Melting Love has an unclear AP advantage ("Far superior") to a value slightly higher than what Venom Ooze scales to.
Venom Ooze has a poison that presumably activates on contact, but the potency is unclear, although it has been noted as being able to corrupt water with time. Venom Ooze has Class 5 Lifting Strength, Melting Love has Unknown Lifting Strength.

Since both, in theory, would probably try to go into close quarters combat & ram each other or such, Venom Ooze might be able to poison on contact, & push away with its ramming. From there, it depends on the Poison weakening Melting Love enough that Melting Love dies to the poison or dies to Venom Ooze's attacks.
Melting Love has Unknown, but seemingly high Stamina because it rampaged a lot but was never shown to get tired.
Venom Ooze has Infinite Stamina. Venom Ooze also has Low-Mid Regeneration.

Melting Love has Extended Melee Range to Venom Ooze's Melee Range, but neither has a justification.

Melting Love is relying on an unclear AP advantage, & an unjustified range advantage.
I dunno how they match up in size.
Venom Ooze would probably end up doing "poison and push away" because presumably poisons on contact, & Class 5 vs Unknown Lifting Strength in a match where both likely just ram each other. It also has the arguably better Stamina (Infinite vs no known limit.), & a small amount of Regeneration helps.


Hopefully that helps you form an opinion.
 
Imaginym said:
Melting Love has Extended Melee Range to Venom Ooze's Melee Range, but neither has a justification.
Click to expand...
For Venom Ooze, I'm pretty sure there is a range specification for its attacks in the guide book.

For Melting Love, there's this

She has very long arms
 
Peppersalt43 said:
For Venom Ooze, I'm pretty sure there is a range specification for its attacks in the guide book.

For Melting Love, there's this

She has very long arms
Click to expand...
Thanks for that clarification! & of course, not to undermine your contribution nor my appreciation of it, but if anyone knows of that range specification, feel free to bring it up, please.
 
Imaginym said:
I went over it in at least one my earlier posts. One of the more recent relevant posts:

If you can't be bothered to read that, a... my attempt at re-summarizing things goes something like this:

Melting Love has an unclear AP advantage ("Far superior") to a value slightly higher than what Venom Ooze scales to.
Venom Ooze has a poison that presumably activates on contact, but the potency is unclear, although it has been noted as being able to corrupt water with time. Venom Ooze has Class 5 Lifting Strength, Melting Love has Unknown Lifting Strength.

Since both, in theory, would probably try to go into close quarters combat & ram each other or such, Venom Ooze might be able to poison on contact, & push away with its ramming. From there, it depends on the Poison weakening Melting Love enough that Melting Love dies to the poison or dies to Venom Ooze's attacks.
Melting Love has Unknown, but seemingly high Stamina because it rampaged a lot but was never shown to get tired.
Venom Ooze has Infinite Stamina. Venom Ooze also has Low-Mid Regeneration.

Melting Love has Extended Melee Range to Venom Ooze's Melee Range, but neither has a justification.

Melting Love is relying on an unclear AP advantage, & an unjustified range advantage.
I dunno how they match up in size.
Venom Ooze would probably end up doing "poison and push away" because presumably poisons on contact, & Class 5 vs Unknown Lifting Strength in a match where both likely just ram each other. It also has the arguably better Stamina (Infinite vs no known limit.), & a small amount of Regeneration helps.


Hopefully that helps you form an opinion.
Click to expand...
ook, but neither seen a relaible wincon, only to the venon ooz, how about melting love transmutation?
 
Peppersalt43 said:
Venom Ooze resists that

She has a resistance negation attack that ignores physical resistance so she does have that at least
Click to expand...
Yeah there is that, but it's also partially a mental assault, isn't it, & the Venom Ooze doesn't have a Mind.
Also, Venom Ooze has Low-Mid Regeneration. though I'm unsure of how well that works.

For what it's worth, that level of Regeneration is defined as, by the VSBW Regeneration page:
Low-Mid: The ability to regenerate lost limbs, limited brain damage, and even severe organ damage or destruction, including traditionally fatal wounds and disembowelment or horizontal bisection. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating minor parts and more extensive internal damage.

....But I don't know which part of that is relevant to Venom Ooze.
Also, beyond that Venom Ooze's healing comes from having an ability called Fast Healing in D&D, IDK how "fast" this healing is supposed to be.
JustANormalLemon said:
isn't black damage just "I damage you body AND mind at the same time"? It only the phisical half affect, melt love don't really has a wincon here
Click to expand...
Melting Love has the AP advantage, doesn't it? So can't Melting Love win via AP?
 
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