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Simple Revision: Fortissimo High-Godly and Concept Manipulation

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Everything12

Everything12

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Odin has an ability called Das Rheingold which is a timeloop that restores his existence back to a fixed point whenever it's changed. This is classified by the Wiki as
Regeneration (Mid-Godly; can come back to life in seconds eve if his existence is erased by Reiji's Overload Tyrfing and Ichigo's Endless Banish)
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And
This ability gives Odin an eternal body that will never be destroyed. It is an robust body that has allowed him to come back from being erased from existence by Ichigo's Endless Banish, his concept of existence being destroyed by Reiji's Overload Tyrfing, his body annihilated by Mythic Class magics multiple times, just to return back to reality as if nothing has happened.
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I'm sure everyone whose knowledgeable of our Regeneration types understands the problem here.

For those who question if what is being said is true. Fortissimo has Concept Magic; which is magic that manipulates concepts. As stated, Reiji used Overload Tyrfing to attack Odin, and while it did destroy him, it was only temporary as Das Rheingold reverted the change in moments. Overload Tyrfing is Reiji using Da Capo: Curtain Call to uterlise the magical weapons of magi he's defeat; Overload Tyrfing is Nagisa's (the white haired girl in both the above albums) magic. Overload Tyrfing is a stronger version of the Concept Magic Tyrfing which uterlises the concept of "cut and destroy everything" to erase the target, while Overload Tyrfing has her uterlise Tyrfing three times at once to immensely increase it's power and conceptual layers.

This is currently described as Mid-Godly because the page is from before the Regeneration changes and was never edited with said changes. So everything that mentions Odin's Mid-Godly should be changed to High-Godly.

Also, all the Fortissimo Concept Manipulation users with pages have no types attached to their Concept Manipulation; it should be Type 2 as their is no evidence to suggest Fortissimo's concepts fit either of the other two types.

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
damn, gotta admit the pages were pretty outdated compare to our current wiki system.

To concrete further about High Godly regen Odin. The magi like Odin all have a magical weapon represent their entire existence, having them destroyed would mean having all trace of their history wiped out in the timeline , Odin got his magical weapon destroyed prequently by the mythic-class magics but he still get brought back by Das Rheingold anyway.

And i gotta ask, what is the different between type 2 CM and other 2 types ?
 
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MagiSinbad said:
damn, gotta admit the pages were pretty outdated compare to our current wiki system.

To concrete further about High Godly regen Odin. The magi like Odin all have a magical weapon represent their entire existence, having them destroyed would mean having all trace of their history wiped out in the timeline , Odin got his magical weapon destroyed prequently by the mythic-class magics but he still get brought back by Das Rheingold anyway.

And i gotta ask, what is the different between type 2 CM and other 2 types ?
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Type 3 is for concepts which are mental and affected by perception like evil, love etc
Type 1 is for concepts that transend reality
 
MagiSinbad said:
That is kinda vague... How do you clarifies which concepts transcend the reality and which dont?
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well, the reality, in that case, are the things they are the concept of, so for example the concept of hope existing before hope as a whole would make it type 1, or it can be beyond said reality as a whole, such as the concept existing outside of the universe (depends on context surrounding the statement however)
 
Should probably change it to
Time Manipulation and Regeneration (High-Godly; Das Rheingold will automatically restore his body to a fixed state from any changes in seconds, even if his existence is erased or his sense removed)
Click to expand...
 
deonment said:
well, the reality, in that case, are the things they are the concept of, so for example the concept of hope existing before hope as a whole would make it type 1, or it can be beyond said reality as a whole, such as the concept existing outside of the universe (depends on context surrounding the statement however)
Click to expand...
Can you give me some example of users who manipulate concepts at this level? And thank you for the answer.
Everything12 said:
Should probably change it to
Click to expand...
He doesnt manipulate time, so saying it's "time manipulation" doesnt fit at all.

I only mentioned it in the profile as a kind of "timeloop" to make Das Rheingold easier to understand.
 
True, I guess it's just the way the Wiki treats Regeneration doesn't feel right for Odin's ability to regress any changes. As normally the Wiki just has Regeneration as healing damage and not stuff like reverting the removal of senses, but as it's only ever described as Immortality or Eternity in the source I guess High-Godly Regeneration is the best fit regardless of how it's normally treated here.
 
Should still add clarification that it's automatic and that it extends beyond damage as the current wording in the Powers and Ability section doesn't really explain those important parts. While it does explain this in detail in the Notable Attacks and Techniques section I know well enough that users often don't check there and prefer to get their Knowledge simply from the wall of abilities.
 
MagiSinbad said:
Can you give me some example of users who manipulate concepts at this level? And thank you for the answer.
Click to expand...
For example, the gods and Anos from Maou Gakuin, Madoka from PMMM and Grandfather spider from Wizard 101
Everything12 said:
True, I guess it's just the way the Wiki treats Regeneration doesn't feel right for Odin's ability to regress any changes. As normally the Wiki just has Regeneration as healing damage and not stuff like reverting the removal of senses, but as it's only ever described as Immortality or Eternity in the source I guess High-Godly Regeneration is the best fit regardless of how it's normally treated here.
Click to expand...
Causality Manip is a power we have on site that works for this
 
Regeneration (High-Godly, his eternity absolute Das Rheingold will alway revert his existence and concept back to the single state whenever a change happen. This ability allow him to regenerates after being erased from existence by Ichigo's Endless Banish, got his concept cut and destroyed Reiji's Overload Tyrfing, in a few seconds later. Das Rheingold doesnt stop at healing Odin's wound and damages, it also undo all kind of special ability that is inflict on him like Momji's sensory manipulation that steal away his seven senses, Forbes Blutgang fire that absorb the opponent's existences; powers; knowledges)
Click to expand...
Does this sound good enough? Pardon my grammar skills, english wasnt my first language.

And yeah, Deon's suggestion on causality manipulation sound good.
 
Seems a bit long, we don't need to explain everything in detail as the Notable Attacks and Techniques section does it good enough, all we need is to give a brief and simple explanation that is sufficient to understand the basics of the ability.

I don't think so. Just like he we don't call it a time loop despite it baring traits of such a thing because no explanation is given in-source to suggest a time loop, no evidence is given that it works through manipulating Causality either. It's just described as being Immortal and Eternal.
 
Regeneration (High-Godly, his eternity absolute Das Rheingold will alway revert his existence and concept back to the single state whenever a change happen. Allowing him to automatically regenerate after his concept of existence is erased, undo all kind of abilities that has been inflicted on him, and even completely unaffected by the ability that absorb the target's existence, powers, knowledges)
Click to expand...

How about this one?
 
Minor changes here.
Regeneration (High-Godly; his Eternity Absolute Das Rheingold will always revert his existence back to the single state whenever a change happen. Allowing him to automatically regenerate after his concept of existence is erased, undo the lose of his senses, and was even completely unaffected by an ability that absorbs the target's existence, powers, and knowledge)
Click to expand...
 
the first "the" seems as though it should be an "a", also should it be noted that he regened from what seemed like Historical EE too
 
Regeneration (High-Godly; his Eternity Absolute Das Rheingold will always revert his existence back to a single state whenever a change happen. Allowing him to automatically regenerate after his concept of existence was erased; preventing the erasure from history that happens when a Magi's Magical Weapon is destroyed, undo the lose of his senses, and was even completely unaffected by an ability that absorbs the target's existence, powers, and knowledge)
Click to expand...
 
Forgot their was more evidence for High-Godly in that Odin can't erase himself despite his Conceptual manipulation.

Edit: Wait, can't Odin also grant the damage he causes his same High-Godly Regeneration to make it so you can't be restored from those attacks. Yet as stated above Das Rheingold is something even he can't work around. This feels like very complicated circular logic that I'm going to need a second to figure out.
 
Except I doubt that would be case, as his words Implied that it would just do nothing whatsoever, that trying to kill himself is a pointless act even with his abilities.
 
Ah damn, i replied to your post before it was edited.
But the point of him trying to destroys himself is probally refer to his main offensive Absolute (Gotterdammerung).
And like i said above, uses Eternal death on himself seem impractical because the guy's goal is to rest in peace so that he can be with his dead wife again.
 
The way he talks about how absolutely Eternal he is and how he has no way for even himself to bypass his own Immortality makes me think that even his Eternal Death can not bypass how he just continues to revert back to one point forever.
 
Everything12 said:
The way he talks about how absolutely Eternal he is and how he has no way for even himself to bypass his own Immortality makes me think that even his Eternal Death can not bypass how he just continues to revert back to one point forever.
Click to expand...
Nah, that is just exaggerate it.

The narrative of the story is about him trying to be with his wife again, so giving himself eternal death doesnt seem to be effective method (while he is already eternal himself, which just gonna create an endless loop of erase-regen)

That is why his entire goal for the whole story is to revive her, by prepare the Ragnarok ritual and attaining the control over the 5th Absolute : Life
 
Theirs no mention of Causality or Cause and Effect in the story at all, so I don't think we should grant a ability like that when theirs no evidence that is has anything to do with that and we just associate the effect with the ability when we have no statements to actual suggest a connection.
 
If we going to the mechanic behind Das Rheingold, then like many other Concept Magic, Das Rheingold affect directly on the target's concept. Basically it revert the concept of the target back to a fixed state. That is why if we going with direct statement and describtion, then we could just say it's conceptual manipulation (which is already on Odin's profile.)
 
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