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Should We Not Allow Profiles for a Verse Simply Because We Don't Like it?

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Sera_EX

She Who Dabbles in Fiction
VS Battles
Retired
6,104
5,102
This is something I've noticed lately. It seems our standards for what is and isn't allowed are all over the place. The one that pokes out the most if not allowing a particular verse because of the material i said verse, despite us being an indexing wiki and said content i the verse having nothing to do with how statistics will be affected.

If someone came to the wiki and asked "Why isn't Suggsverse allowed?" What would you say? "It's not allowed because it's poorly written, pseudo-philosophical babble made by a guy with an apparent god complex?" Who cares? Who are we to judge that person in such a way (in relation to allowing his work on this wiki). My answer to that question is very simple. It is impossible to gauge the power and accurately index Suggsverse characters due to the inconsistencies in descriptions, "beyond omnipotent" nonsense, etc. That's basically the only reason. A lot of verses on this wiki are poorly written (it's an opinion after all) so that should not be the reason.

What about Monster Girl Quest? Apparently it was taken down for being ****. Which...it isn't, and even if it was, that has nothing to do with the statistics of the characters and how we would index them on this wiki. It's not like we're writing full bios here. Certain people just don't like such content (understandable, but the content itself is irrelevant as long as the verse is popular/notable enough to be on this wiki). As long as nothing sexual is shown on the profiles or nothing is described as sexually explicit in the summaries, why does it matter? Take Demonbane, Fate/Stay Night, all Masadaverse visual novels and other eroge for example. Or are you gonna sit there and say "they have 15+ versions so..."

Another is the Cthulhu Mythos, it's on the wiki of course, but there's been a desire for it be removed long before I even joined the wiki. This is simply because of the type of content Lovecraft writes. Again, who cares. A user even told me Lovecraft was a racist so his work shouldn't be on the wiki. What? What does that have to do with anything?

I understand why religious figures, real life figures, etc. aren't allowed. I understand why fan characters/original characters and joke characters aren't allowed (and there's wikis for those now anyway). That's understandable, but that is completely different from saying "this writer is such and such, don't allow their work here". Personal feelings should not outweigh a general consensus of why something can or cannot be allowed on the wiki. Remember the SCP controversy? Is American Gods allowed if we're really going to judge what can/cannot be on this wiki by content?

Please, share your thoughts below.
 
I thought we allowed any verse except those that don't abide by the tiering rules? From what I've heard Suggs verse has omnipotents losing and doesn't care about tiering or anything. That's just what I've heard
 
Yeah. Gotta say that our "rules" regarding what we allow is vague as all ****.

Obviously, fanfictions shouldn't be allowed at all due to obvious reasons. But otherwise...
 
You could say that this is true, but it's not really up for me to say whether or not this kind of thing should be allowed because of some peoples' sensitivities or whatever. Monster Girl Quest was deleted for its excessive ecchi/****/whatever, same goes for Shimoneta and whatever else may have gotten taken away. But if you unlock one thing, that'll give access to a lot more things.

People are going to make profiles for this guy or for this verse because if they can get away with it, why not them? Don't show the bad bits and you're a-okay, according to the argument. Then it'd be all for the taking then, wouldn't it? Some things are deleted for a reason, but a personal bias against it shouldn't be one of them. I assume a lot of verses are banned for a reason, whether featless or some other phenomenon.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Yeah. Gotta say that our "rules" regarding what we allow is vague as all ****.
Obviously, fanfictions shouldn't be allowed at all due to obvious reasons. But otherwise...
Language, Saikou , Saki.

Anyways, I'm not one to oppose ecchi or even hentai really. There's literally a wikia for Monster Girl Quest and it's still online. If we don't mention any of the lewds, we should be fine honestly.
 
"What about Monster Girl Quest? Apparently it was taken down for being ****. Which...it isn't"

I am 99% confident the main source of tension in the story is how the main character is going to keep himself a virgin when all these big booby sex monsters are trying to harvest his *****.
 
Imagine if the Naruto Wiki didn't accept the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan as canon simply because they think it's a BS powerup. The wiki would lose it's credibility and professionalism wouldn't it? Because that's a personal opinion and while we need the community to be honest and give us their opinions on things, that's not to say in this case, that is the best option. It's not.
 
I'm in total agreement with what you have said Sera, simply not allowing a verse or removing it (like MGQ) because of it's contents or for the whole reason of not liking it, is a weak argument especially towards MGQ since it has been shut down because of what it "contains", Masadaverse,Bastard and others ones has shown this type of content and yet we didn't remove them, why? Because they have plot and MGQ doesn't? Because MGQ has a lot of those type of content? All of these are useless arguments to stop MGQ (and potentially other verses) from entering the wiki.

Verses that are removed or not allowed just because of a disagreement towards something the verse contains, isn't the best idea, i really don't like and it may become a hinder to the progress of the wiki and not only that but it becomes unfair (in my opinion at least).
 
It's a sad, sad day when people seem more willing to let lolicon *********** in this site than Adam Conover and AVGN.

I agree "I don't like it" alone shouldn't be an argument against adding something. However we have to have some sort of standards and not just let anything here. It's why FC/OC and especially Joke Battles exists.

****, even "**** with a plot", shouldn't be allowed here. Especially when the plot boils down to "Try not to get raped by animals!"

It's highly distasteful, makes our site look bad and potentially goes against Wikia's guidelines. (I can't wait until someone brings up an example that slipped through the cracks as if that still isn't against the rules and risky for us to have.)

Where does this "don't show the naughty stuff" end? Could someone go make a profile of a super buff guy that can easily restrain men from a prison rape fetish film and rate him 9-C as long as we don't show what the film is actually all about?

This site has a certain degree of professionalism and dignity we try to withhold. Having pages for verses that most would agree are of poor quality is perfectly fine. But let's try refraining from some of the more repulsive and degenerate things.
 
Hey I just want everyone who's making the point about "What about these other verses that have nudity" to know that there's a reason that a picture of a nude child is illegal but statues of cupid are okay. One has actual artistic merit, the other is just pornography.

Other than that though, the actual definition of "artistic merit" is heavily controversial because it's difficult to define in legal terms.
 
Sera Loveheart said:
I generally agree with Arigarmy.
About Rapeman getting in or about personal bias? I generally don't believe Ant or any of the other bureaucrats will agree with this. Sorry, that's just my theory.

Even Ryu's makin' sense.
 
I agree with Ryukama, allowing verses by arguing that all we have to do is not show the nudity will be opening the floodgates for pornography on here, there is a difference between explicit **** with ********** and all sorts of other obscene stuff and stories with plot that happen to have nudity involved.

We have to maintain some sort of standard here and not devolve into a site that features pornographic characters, where all sorts of obscene things happen in their series. I agree that simply because someone doesn't like a verse doesn't mean it shouldn't be here however.
 
Please don't make this about MGQ or just about sexual things, I am speaking up regarding our loosely defined standards on this wiki. Where is it listed that this content isn't allowed? Nowhere.

Also, that's one thing. What about the Suggsverse or Cthulhu Mythos examples? You guys seem to be ignoring those.
 
Bottom line. We can't not allow something simply because we don't like the content.
 
I thought "Don't make pages for ****" was kinda a given.

Like I said though, I agree "I don't like it" alone shouldn't be an argument against adding something. However we have to have some standards for what content we can allow here. Our reputation and possibly existence as a site relies on it.

Anyways Cthulhu Mythos is a legitamate story made by a douchebag author. Who cares?

Suggsverse I'm neutral towards. Though I think another issue is that one it completely and utterly violates our Tiering System literally on purpose. Making actually rating it an incoherant pain. Along with the controversy we can receive by giving a gateway for users to constantly bash it even more. As well as some possible conflict with Suggs himself.
 
@Ryu

If that's the case:

Demonbane, Masadaverse, Fate/Stay, American Gods, etc. should all be removed from the wiki simply because of their content.

**** obviously can't be allowed (it's in Fandom's TOU for all English communities) but that's not what I'm talking about and MGQ was merely the icing on the cake example.
 
Legitamate stories with sexual and disturbing themes is not the same as **** with a plot. It's why Back to the Future can be aired in theaters despite having a rape scene yet a rape fetish film with a hamfisted plot that's still mainly about rape can't. And honestly MGQ is far closer to the latter than the former.
 
While I understand the arguments for adding MGQ to the wiki, I've never been particularly fond of the idea myself, not only because I personally loathe it (despite my username), but because there are other potential issues as well. In a thread made about it quite some time ago, Kavpeny steadfastly opposed the idea because it could have serious consequences for our wiki, ranging from alienating visitors for obvious reasons to having to deal with Wikia not being particularly fond of the idea either. We're a popular wiki, and so there is likely to be complaints to Wikia about our content if we have MGQ pages here.

There's a difference between Cthulhu Mythos and MGQ, and that difference is that Cthulhu Mythos is a fairly well-known and popular work, most people don't know that Lovecraft was kind of a dick and thus won't care, and many of those who do know won't care anyways. It won't have any visible effect on this website. Many people will be disgusted and repulsed by the presence of a game that principally revolves around rape, regardless of however much story it has, as is obvious on this thread.

I believe a better example of something that we seem to disallow on this wiki for reasons that are little more than "I don't like it" would be Getbackers, which we seem to disallow out of some sense of spite towards Suggs (who wanked and misinformed many people about its scale of power). Plenty of verses have higher-dimensional power sources, such as Tenchi Muyo, and not allowing a verse just because of that makes no sense, so it's clearly because Suggs is reviled here.
 
If the story revolves around sex then it shouldn't be added but if it has sexual themes and doesn't revolve around it then it should be ok.
 
The exact line between such things can be gray and ambiguous at times. Yet there still needs to be a line drawn somewhere. Even if case by case. And it's often just left up to common sense. You can simply tell when something's a porno and when something's an actual story. Just look at that previous thread where Ari was posting. MGQ is pretty much the latter when you actually consider those things.
 
Fate/Stay Night has a girl being raped by worms...

That's disgusting, yet...it's allowed.

Seriously, yet, because it's notable and popular and has a story, it's allowed. American Gods is so over-the-top violent and messed up it makes Mortal Kombat look like a baby's toy. But it's allowed.

EDIT: Didn't see Ryu's above reply.
 
Well, let's see.

Berserk is obviously one of the lower lines of "stories with ****", though I wouldn't consider it "stories with ****" if **** by defintion is only meant to make you go "Oh that's hot" instead of "Oh that's terrifying plot". I'm not sure how those eroge or whatever you call it would fit on this sensitive line.
 
Well for one I don't know those verses and if suffer like that happens a lot then I don't think it should be allowed.

I'm referring to the rape not the blood because lots of verses are violent.
 
Fate stay night actually has a censored version, and has a actual plot compared to MGQ aswell (Also its story doesn't revolve around getting r*ped by animals, abd some weird vore shit)

Like Ryu mentioned we have standards for not allowing pure **** verses onto this site. Not liking the verse was never the reason, which some people think for some reason.
 
There's literal Japanese terms for "plot with ****" and "**** with plot".

Plot with **** = Eroge

**** with plot = Nukige (and most of the time there's no solid plot)

90% of Nukige have no feats, so saying "allowing this kind of content will open the door to other ****" is wrong.
 
Again, that's not what this is about.

Personal feelings should not outweigh a general consensus of why something can or cannot be allowed on the wiki. Remember the SCP controversy? Is American Gods allowed if we're really going to judge what can/cannot be on this wiki by content?
 
**** exists in other places besides Japan. If someone can make a page for a Japanese **** with plot, why can't someone make a page for an American **** with plot? Or just straight up **** from other countries. I'm not showing the naughty stuff when I make a Cumposite Ron Jeremy page. So it should be fine.

Also what about the 10% of Nukige? I don't want that to be opened up here.
 
Can someone make a list of these Verses that we supposedly don't allow because of this "I don't like it" argument please.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Can someone make a list of these Verses that we supposedly don't allow because of this "I don't like it" argument please.
Getbackers like Prom said is a clear example. Suggsverse is an arguable example. MGQ has reasons that extend far beyond "I don't like it".
 
Fair enough Sera. Well, I don't know anymore. It's vague enough as to why **** (excessive sex) wouldn't be allowed but excessive unnecessary gore would be. I'm not batting for either team, so don't think "Venny is trying to get **** on this wiki". I'm pointing out double standards, which I believe was Sera's initial intention.
 
well I think series resolves around rape/sex shouldn't be allowed here because IT IS disrespectful and over the top, heck verse like berserk should be removed because it's downright disgusting even though I am fan of the series

Still you can't judge the whole verse because of frw stuff here and there
 
Ryukama said:
**** exists in other places besides Japan. If someone can make a page for a Japanese **** with plot, why can't someone make a page for an American **** with plot? Or just straight up **** from other countries. I'm not showing the naughty stuff when I make a Cumposite Ron Jeremy page. So it should be fine.
Also what about the 10% of Nukige? I don't want that to be opened up here.
You just couldn't resist could you...
 
Ryukama said:
**** exists in other places besides Japan. If someone can make a page for a Japanese **** with plot, why can't someone make a page for an American **** with plot? Or just straight up **** from other countries. I'm not showing the naughty stuff when I make a Cumposite Ron Jeremy page. So it should be fine.

Also what about the 10% of Nukige? I don't want that to be opened up here.
I'm pretty sure he knows that. He's saying that there's terms of those and it doesn't matter where it comes from, the reason why it isn't allowed does not work because the same can be argued for many other things. Berserk and American Gods are still on this wiki.
 
@Dragon Very unfortunate typo ovo

@Sera Again. Berserk and American Gods are stories with sex. Not vice versa. They're not comparable to MGQ. It's like saying we shouldn't allow Back to the Future cause it has rape. There are clear differences in many of these cases. And while some have a more gray or ambiguous line, it's still important we draw it somewhere.
 
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