Should we consider pre-Crisis feats to be "canon" for DC now, given recent cosmic events?

[Malomtek]

It appears that, at least since Convergence "brought everything back" and at most since Dark Nights "brought everything back but even harder", that the storylines of the Silver Age and Bronze Age should be canon to the current mainstream "Earth 0"/"Prime Earth"/"Metaverse" DC Comics continuity.

I'm still iffy on whether all pre-Crisis feats should be allowed as "in-continuity" for DC characters, as the pre-Crisis era, by all accounts, should be "canon" now, but DC seems to be ignoring the more "wacky" elements of that era. What do you guys think?

 

[Westcoast5005]

Obviously

 

[Teezar]

Yep, it's canon since convergence but I just see it as if any character performs a feat that seems outlierish, I just believe it's cause of this event especially in death metal which made everyone history become 1 so they would have does their bizarre power levels which they had in pre crisis now especially now it's all 1 history.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally think that we should wait and see what their established power levels turn out to be. As far as I have understood, the characters recurrently remember everything, but that includes contradictory information from different timelines/versions of themselves, so it does not necessarily drastically increase their power levels.

 

[Antvasima]

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @Planck69 @Confluctor @MarvelFanatic119

What do you think about this?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Ant is right, a lot of contradictory informations, power-scaling gaps, retconned feats etc, the iceberg is really deep here

 

[Confluctor]

No. Their personalities and power levels aren't matching, at least for the time being. Wait and see if they will reach level and whatnot, then can be applied.


Albeit convergence did bring back everything, but from what I remember, it was meant to be in separate earths/universes/timelines. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Teezar]

I personally think that we should wait and see what their established power levels turn out to be. As far as I have understood, the characters recurrently remember everything, but that includes contradictory information from different timelines/versions of themselves, so it does not necessarily drastically increase their power levels.

For darkseid,his power has drastically increased and it's not in a funny way and I would say barry allen also.
Yeah, I forgot wally also in recent books.

 

[Confluctor]

Yeah certain characters shouldn't have different eras personally, especially not the flashes. (Save for new 52 Barry, but not his rebirth version)

I wouldn't mind superman post crisis and rebirth merger. But not really keen on his pre crisis merger yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Btw: Convergence is an old awful storyline that treated all the continuities as separate. It is Death Metal and Doomsday Clock that supposedly merged them together.

 

[Teezar]

Mainly death metal.
Also action Comics and superman(2018 or 2016) Post-Crisis and post-flashpoint superman were merged during that Mr mxyzptlk arc.

Yeah certain characters shouldn't have different eras personally, especially not the flashes. (Save for new 52 Barry, but not his rebirth version)

I don't seem to understand.

 

[Confluctor]

Basically Wally should have just one file on the wiki instead of two.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

I agree with Bern and Confluctor. We should wait and see first.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you think about this?

It doesn't work. Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman died during COIE and the Post-Crisis version is completely different. There's no scaling to be done. Same with Pre-Crisis Superman who's canonically a different character than the Post-Crisis version.

 

[Westcoast5005]

Should eras be split maybe some should and some shouldn't as the crisis didn't affect the new gods archetypal form. The crisis also didn't affect character like Modru etc.

 

[Teezar]

It's already done that way.
But yeah mordru and characters Like Doctor fate shouldn't be split since they were never retconned.
Tho, they have 1 history I don't really think it changes anything. I still like how the profiles are tbh if I'm guessing the OP wants to merge them to be one . But still we don't even know if a retcon might be possible in the future maybe in 10 to 20 years so I think I prefer how everything basically is.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

Yeah I agree with a lot of the explanations against it given above. Especially since having someone's memories doesn't necessarily have to give you their power levels. It's not like getting someone's memories is equivalent to history being rewritten for them to now perform everything within those memories, so it's probably best to wait for more information on how the end of Death Metal will be affecting things.

 

[Confluctor]

Dr Fate, pre and post should be the same. Unsure about his n52/rebirth version ATM tbh

 

[Hellbeast]

Albeit convergence did bring back everything, but from what I remember, it was meant to be in separate earths/universes/timelines. Correct me if I am wrong.

I know Doomsday Clock implies Post-Crisis and the New 52 now exist as separate timelines but I have no idea if Death Metal said "no u" to that stuff

It doesn't work. Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman died during COIE and the Post-Crisis version is completely different. There's no scaling to be done. Same with Pre-Crisis Superman who's canonically a different character than the Post-Crisis version.

Also wouldn't Rebirth be kinda different too; as the fusion of PC and New 52?

For darkseid,his power has drastically increased and it's not in a funny way and I would say barry allen also.

I think Darkseid mentioned something about merging with his other selves but idk
I definitely think New 52 Darkseid should be his own profile since he's a different version of the character with his own origins, motives and characterisation

 

[Teezar]

Yeah, he merged with all his previous incarnations and became 1 again. I think it's what drastically increased his power to even one shot the entire quintencess together.

 

[GodOfThunder]

i wouldn't agree with this tbh it would make it too inconsistent based on thier feats now compared to what they did in the past

 

[Teezar]

i wouldn't agree with this tbh it would make it too inconsistent based on thier feats now compared to what they did in the past

True, but after death metal some characters power are drastically increasing tho.

 

[Confluctor]

And then we wait. It's better to wait and see where it goes.

Cause this revision would be INSANELY huge and if it somehow doesn't reach those levels... Well, that would be a lot of work to recreate them and whatnot.

 

[Teezar]

Yeah, we're waiting for 1A darkseid.
Buy yeah, even I wanna see how things are gonna be in 2 to 3 years.
Especially as Characters Like.
Empty hand
Eclipso
Upside-down man
Nekron are potentially gonna make a return in this race with darkseid.

 

[LordTracer]

I pretty much agree with what everyone else has said so far, we should just wait.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, I also agree with Confluctor and the others.

 

[TypeOU]

For darkseid,his power has drastically increased and it's not in a funny way and I would say barry allen also.
Yeah, I forgot wally also in recent books.

darkseid explanation is still a bit lacking, from what we know, it's more like he absorbed back all of his avatars across every crisis and universes to recover his power (which he lost before his first pre crisis appareance)

and the flash family buffs have nothing to do with that either, wally is because the speed force chose him and barry because metaverse

Yeah, he merged with all his previous incarnations and became 1 again. I think it's what drastically increased his power to even one shot the entire quintencess together.

sadly unimpressive, iirc the highest tiers among them are the gods, and darkseid is already supposed to be stronger than them

 

[Teezar]

darkseid explanation is still a bit lacking, from what we know, it's more like he absorbed back all of his avatars across every crisis and universes to recover his power (which he lost before his first pre crisis appareance)

and the flash family buffs have nothing to do with that either, wally is because the speed force chose him and barry because metaverse

Doesn't change the fact he got far stronger.
And the flashes are more powerful especially if you read the annual about savitar which i don't know why he lacks a profile.

sadly unimpressive, iirc the highest tiers among them are the gods, and darkseid is already supposed to be stronger than them

Precisely his stronger.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Current Darkseid seems to be stronger than Eclipso, Nekron, Upside Down Man etc. since he literally treats them as goons. "Unknown, at least Low 1-C likely far higher" since this site doesn't accept 1-A stuff for new gods should work for now I guess.

 

[Teezar]

Actually no one's planning an upgrade on the current darkseid just his stronger than he ever was. But let's see more about this infinite frontier and the great evil beast.

Lucifer Morningstar might be introduced or the presence cause of the great evil beast.

 

[Antvasima]

The way I understood it, The Upside-Down Man, Nekron, Empty Hand, etcetera are rivals to Darkseid who also wish to gain the power of the Great Evil Beast. All of them are rushing to get it for themselves.

 

[Teezar]

But seems darkseid is the one who's gonna win the race. And I wanna see how darkseid gains control over a being that's more powerful than him.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but if Darkseid takes control over TGEB, Wonder Woman will probably take control over The Presence to beat him. It sends the kind of progressive empowerment message that DC and Marvel tend to drop every 10 seconds nowadays.

 

[Confluctor]

Oh god, anything but wonder woman

 

[TypeOU]

Yes, but if Darkseid takes control over TGEB, Wonder Woman will probably take control over The Presence to beat him. It sends the kind of progressive empowerment message that DC and Marvel tend to drop every 10 seconds nowadays.

it's pretty obvious barry's gonna get this one from my pov

 

[Teezar]

it's pretty obvious barry's gonna get this one from my pov

Barry or Superman as presence called Superman his son in pre crisis.

 

[Teezar]

Yes, but if Darkseid takes control over TGEB, Wonder Woman will probably take control over The Presence to beat him. It sends the kind of progressive empowerment message that DC and Marvel tend to drop every 10 seconds nowadays.

Gain control over the presence seems too much more like praying or asking him for help or power to defeat TGEB but all depends on Williamson.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it seems like the most likely scenario to me, given their very formulaic standard approach, but I may be wrong.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, is there anything left to do here, or should I close this thread?

 

[Teezar]

I think so.