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Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~

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Maybe it could be better to ask outside of this forum for others' inputs because it seems like a lot of what you guys are arguing about keep going in circle
ex. to Trexalfa when not a stupid question
It would be nice if you could help with all these Upgrades/downgrades. Not forcing you though if you don't want to then don't it's alright.
 
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I think we need to start putting a lot more scans than what's already there on the pages of both the Yatsukahagi and the EE (basically, the K3 section). I'll just point out a few things and some questions I have.

What abilities to manipulating lifespan and luck grant?

Shouldn't Soujirou have higher-dimensional manipulation due to his higher dimensional slash?

Madara should have more scans in his powers and abilities section.

Habaki also as well, but that's just me.

Ryuusui has almost no scans whatsoever, which is weird.

The Tenma have literally no scans whatsoever on their profiles other than Yato, which is just pathetic. They should be added (I'm looking for the in-game profiles of the Tenma that I saw in a past thread).

Characters like Sakuya and Keishirou also need some more scans or even videos.

Idk why Hajun doesn't have more scans on his profile. He has quite a few abilities that don't even come from Madara like his Tengan being able to see Naraka and shit.

Muzan has some extra haxes that could be implemented such as some kind of morality manipulation that can be found in Pantheon, which I might do in the future.

Mithra as well, but I'm still reading Alf's blog again.
 
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Also, depending on whether or not the translation is alr, you could argue some kind of reactive evolution for Muzan here.

possible Morality Manipulation?

Supporting statements for Omnipresence.

神の名は無斯。あらゆる生命に原罪という根源的な業が埋め込まれた世界。ゆえに歯止めの利かない欲望は肥大を極め、文明の発展と比例して凶悪な犯罪が吹き荒れる弱肉強食の時代となる。それはさながら、悪を喰らう悪の楽園。

Muzan's world is like one of ultimate karma (not sure, but that might just be flowery language)


Ren asking how Muzan was able to harm Hajun (just something to add to his profile)
 
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hm, shouldn't the fact that the gods themselves are the law is kinda flowery language? i mean we see that they have a physical body, higher dimensional maybe, it could be that the god is just the physical manifestation of the law.Even tho, gods can still affect singularity with it, which isn't said to be bound by dimensions. which should grant them 1-A hax, if not outright 1-A.
these scans with Reinhard I think do the best at justifying the abstract nature of gods embodying theyre laws.
 
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This is why relying on buzzword logic like "It was stated to lack dimensions" or "It was called beyond dimensions" is bad. Because all it takes is a single instance of calling it dimensioned to negate that logic. Instead one should aim towards establishing a logic that allows you to extrapolate a gap larger than an infinite heirarchy to reach 1-A
 
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This is why relying on buzzword logic like "It was stated to lack dimensions" or "It was called beyond dimensions" is bad. Because all it takes is a single instance of calling it dimensioned to negate that logic. Instead one should aim towards establishing a logic that allows you to extrapolate a gap larger than an infinite heirarchy to reach 1-A
We have kind of established that Singularity remains outside the expansion of higher dimensions and no matter how much you add them (higher Dimensions) you won't reach Singularity. But idfk why people are not sticking to one thing.
 
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We have kind of established that Singularity remains outside the expansion of higher dimensions and no matter how much you add them (higher Dimensions) you won't reach Singularity. But idfk why people are not sticking to one thing.
I don't think that has been established yet though.
 
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Everything12 sent some stuff regarding that but that's not everything. Just wait and chill for now.
If you are talking about the "changes in Cosmology don't affect singularity" logic then that has lots of issues.

The only interesting thing I can think of was pain saying throne in PL was inaccessible to people that could keep ascending to higher and higher dimensions, but I would hold off on taking that at face value until I see the scans.
 
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The only interesting thing I can think of was pain saying throne in PL was inaccessible to people that could keep ascending to higher and higher dimensions, but I would hold off on taking that at face value until I see the scans.
I mean that's true. Dies Irae didn't touch on that and there are definitely scans for that.
But this 1-A discussion is for another day, let's stop now.
 
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I mean that's true. Dies Irae didn't touch on that and there are definitely scans for that.
But this 1-A discussion is for another day, let's stop now.
Best thing you could get from Dies Irae was the argument that the singularity "layers" were endlessly large holes that one would fall down forever through, and even stacking them ad infinitum can't reach the Throne. Other than that, that's about it for Dies Irae when it comes to inaccessibility. That, and the notion that gods have a greater transcendence that higher dimensions do and shit, which would also be 1A, albeit that's likely just flowery language.
 
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Best thing you could get from Dies Irae was the argument that the singularity "layers" were endlessly large holes that one would fall down forever through, and even stacking them ad infinitum can't reach the Throne. Other than that, that's about it for Dies Irae when it comes to inaccessibility. That, and the notion that gods have a greater transcendence that higher dimensions do and shit, which would also be 1A, albeit that's likely just flowery language.
Yeah, there's also I think some scans from Avesta that talk about nature of throne I think but I'll have to check it.
 
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We have kind of established that Singularity remains outside the expansion of higher dimensions and no matter how much you add them (higher Dimensions) you won't reach Singularity. But idfk why people are not sticking to one thing.
Because it’s still literally a hypothesis that no one can defend properly
Just use this

It's more straight forward.
Where is it from
There's a scene in 3 colours where Ren says he's the embodiment of his law so that can work too
There is a thread yuri made that said that ren and merc being the embodiments of theyre law is to vague for abstract existence.
the scan with Reinhard directly states that he “exists in the hearts of men” not only that he emobodies war, so I think it would be more effective ig also I just realized that it would actually give him type 8 immortality
 
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It's already translated on SB:
The existences who reach this level become All of Creation itself, thus, the ideology and nature of he or she will become an omnipresent, universal Law regarding the current age... basically, the primordial mechanism of this work's world.
And anyway, there is much more proofs for abstract existence in Avesta such as when Khvarenah started gradually turning into God and emanating (albeit it was imperfect) he experienced a form of conceptualization and then became a genuine concept, immutable and boundless law of “beauty".
 
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Because it’s still literally a hypothesis that no one can defend properly
I can do so though. Just wait till I finish reading KKK. But I don't really care about Shinza"s tier for now because I like 1-B.


There is a thread yuri made that said that ren and merc being the embodiments of theyre law is to vague for
Everything12 posted some screenshots earlier which I think are good enough for abstract existence. And shuradou posted some info from Avesta too.
 
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I can do so though. Just wait till I finish reading KKK. But I don't really care about Shinza"s tier for now because I like 1-B.
mhm, kk 🗿
Everything12 posted some screenshots earlier which I think are good enough for abstract existence. And shuradou posted some info from Avesta too.
Ik I was just saying the Reinhard example is specifically better than ren and mercerius’s example as it actually mentions abstractness.
and the first scan he sent wasnt talking about gods anyway
 
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Ik I was just saying the Reinhard example is specifically better than ren and mercerius’s example as it actually mentions abstractness.
and the first scan he sent wasnt talking about gods anyway
It ok. What shuradou posted is way better than that Ren screenshot
 

Everything12

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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You think Stagnation could be a better translation? Stopping/stoppage doesn't work that well in this context in English.

Also, I'm not seeing that from the translation? Additional context needed?
 
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You think Stagnation could be a better translation?
Perhaps, but it means the same thing, every translation I ever got suggests stoppage or some form of "stop", it says nothing about time stop or whatever, but the stop does seem to be there.

I'll try pulling up the kanji.

停止

This seems to mean standstill, stoppage, and some other things.
 

Everything12

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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I think Stagnation is probably the cleanest translation to English, the others sound a bit clunky. Though I guess standstill isn't too bad.
 
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I'm calling it now, Soujirou and Shiori are the best characters in Shinza...besides Yato, of course. (We all love you, you mighty simp)
 
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Yeah, I've seen worse. The Hajun that "fought" against the three colors was way creepier.
uG2NRfT_d.webp
aNMSRez_d.webp
 
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Just a really brief summary of the Habaki vs Yato fight after rewatching it.

The Yatsukahagi are sacrificed and Yato is "revived" and restored to full power once more > freezes all of Creation along with the EE other than Habaki who somehow resists it > Yato absolutely godstomps Habaki with the latter only barely surviving cause of his ridiculous distortion > Habaki starts keeping up cause of Kikei Mandala > Rindou gets freed from the time stop due to her connection to Habaki (ig...? either that, or PIS) > Rindou frees the rest of the EE > Habaki rises up so much that he eventually surpasses Yato who accepts his defeat with a smile.

Pretty much, so the Taikyoku values that people have been assigning for the Gudou Gods only applies to their post-series selves. Before that, they were boosted by the Kikei Mandala, the Teratoma's Mandala. Pretty much all the EE was boosted from what I know of. Yakou was basically being fed Hajun's shit, so that's just a given, Ryuusui, well, I'm not too sure about her. Soujirou and Shiori definitely were, and were exceptions to the Gudou norm due to reasons already explained earlier in the thread. Habaki and Rindou, due to what I already pointed out, were also boosted. Now, as for why Habaki was able to resist the time stop when Yakou couldn't (for reference, Yakou is recognized as the strongest of the EE), well it might be because Yato was basically testing Habaki to see if they had what it took to beat Hajun. Other than that, it could be because of the ridiculous connection he has to Hajun.
 
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Also, what's the context behind this scene?
1- Hajun opens up singularity with an angry look
2- he dives through it and reaches the throne, pops up in front of them
3- they are surprised who he is (the scene I showed)
4- he starts steamrolling them but the entire fight isn't drawn.
 
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1- Hajun opens up singularity with an angry look
2- he dives through it and reaches the throne, pops up in front of them
3- they are surprised who he is (the scene I showed)
4- he starts steamrolling them but the entire fight isn't drawn.
Oh, I thought something else happened here cause hajun was acting almost civil.
 
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i mean, wasn't he beginning to change at the end of kajiri kamui kagura when he was defeated and civilly talking to the other gods in pantheon prologue?
Nah in pantheon he was still a egotistical prick, he literally thought the other gods are trash and focused on the naraka rangers as he felt they were touching him again
 

Everything12

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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Hahaha ha. He never changed at all in Kajiri, he stuck to his self-absorbed isolation genocidal path to the bitter end, his only change would be having his massive ego hurt by being defeated.

As for Pantheon, he ignored all the Gods like he ignored everyone else he considered a piece of [email protected], he was far to busy looking at Naraka and figuring out how to murk them so he could take them isolated spot of existence for himself to be away from all the filth.
 
Hahaha ha. He never changed at all in Kajiri, he stuck to his self-absorbed isolation genocidal path to the bitter end, his only change would be having his massive ego hurt by being defeated.

As for Pantheon, he ignored all the Gods like he ignored everyone else he considered a piece of [email protected], he was far to busy looking at Naraka and figuring out how to murk them so he could take them isolated spot of existence for himself to be away from all the filth.
damn, how is the pantheon mc supposed to get along with him? The pantheon mc looks like another ritsuka.
 
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Eh eh eh
Locked up since birth and the first thing he did when he woke up was kill Marie, yeah he can't be a protagonist
He literally killed Marie due to snapping and shit, so I disagree with that. Besides, muzan committee genocide, and was a protagonist
 
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Hahaha ha. He never changed at all in Kajiri, he stuck to his self-absorbed isolation genocidal path to the bitter end, his only change would be having his massive ego hurt by being defeated.

As for Pantheon, he ignored all the Gods like he ignored everyone else he considered a piece of [email protected], he was far to busy looking at Naraka and figuring out how to murk them so he could take them isolated spot of existence for himself to be away from all the filth.
Thing is, they imply that he does have a special kind of relationship with Habaki, so redemption is still possible.
 
so...since i saw dies irae pantheon, i am planning to make a fanfiction which is in a sense shinza banshou version of fgo. In pantheon, the main character can summons aeons, which are basically copies of hadou gods recorded on the throne, literally the fucking same as servants being summoned from throne of heroes. However, i want this verse to focus on teamwork a lot, so the hadou gods will be greatly downgraded and many of their abilities will be sealed. I am making this a project with chakravartin, will see what i can come up with.
 
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so...since i saw dies irae pantheon, i am planning to make a fanfiction which is in a sense shinza banshou version of fgo. In pantheon, the main character can summons aeons, which are basically copies of hadou gods recorded on the throne, literally the fucking same as servants being summoned from throne of heroes. However, i want this verse to focus on teamwork a lot, so the hadou gods will be greatly downgraded and many of their abilities will be sealed. I am making this a project with chakravartin, will see what i can come up with.
As long as it’s not like any of the stories in the “worst fanfics” thread
 
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I would hit you with a ham if I could

More seriously it's more in case someone already has kikei scans.
Isn’t their kikei key unquantifiable in terms of power cause they started off weaker than the Tenma, so…ye. Then again, habaki eventually surpassed yato with it so there’s that
 
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If someone is kind enough, could they make a text file for Avesta? I don’t have money, and will only get a card later, so a txt file for Avesta would be pretty sweet
 
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As for Pantheon, he ignored all the Gods like he ignored everyone else he considered a piece of [email protected], he was far to busy looking at Naraka and figuring out how to murk them so he could take them isolated spot of existence for himself to be away from all the filth.
Just addressing this, Hajun in Pantheon does seem to give acknowledgement to people more as he did acknowledge Muzan's existence and stuff (albeit he lost interest in him cause he couldn't find him and shit)

Also, just a quick question, we have scans for Habaki's resurrection, why don't we put them there? It's always been a bit weird, but we can actually put the scans there.
 
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Was Yato going to actually reach the bottom of the singularity cause this: 「感じるぞ、座は近い。もうすぐ底に到達する」seems to imply something completely different. It seems to imply that Yato would have indeed reached the bottom, it just took a ridiculously large amount of time.
 
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Was Yato going to actually reach the bottom of the singularity cause this: 「感じるぞ、座は近い。もうすぐ底に到達する」seems to imply something completely different. It seems to imply that Yato would have indeed reached the bottom, it just took a ridiculously large amount of time.
Nah he was not going to, as the deeper he guides his own existence and becoming stronger, the stronger hajun also becomes
 
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Nah he was not going to, as the deeper he guides his own existence and becoming stronger, the stronger hajun also becomes
Alr...can you explain? Cause that's not at all what the quote says. The quote directly implies that Yato was nearing the Throne, so that would technically imply that he would eventually reach the bottom, no?
 
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Besides, gods should transcend their singularities (as for all possible expansions from other heavens as well? Highly debatable, but as for their own, it should be a given already, but there is a statement in Pantheon). You could probably argue 1A based on that alone, but that's just me. Anyway, I think Pain should probably head back to his Shinza revision cause Ant might close it.
 
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