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Shaman King CRT(Part 1)

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will update pages tonight. I think only 4 to 5 are being affected.

though looking now, I see a potential mess with hao's page is currently done. ill propose a fix in a few hours
 
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ok so


First thing is Hao's first key will be upgraded to high 4-c as well. Reasoning is he scales to Lyserg since they both had the spirit of flame, Lyserg tanked the supernova

Hao's Second key should be either likely 3-a or flat 3-a.

Reason being is that the the power of great spirit is the power of the entire universe itself.

Hao describes the battle as being the universe itself vs the earth (5 elemental spirits), and that he both wields the power of the stars and the power of the cosmos.

Through out the fight he shows off the different aspects of the cosmos, from creating a sun, causing a supernova, to making a blackhole, all while holding back.

The five elemental spirits that were made from the great spirit were also described as having "power comparable to the big bang", and hao is much stronger than all 5 together.
 
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hao is also able summon an observable cosmos within the great spirit itself, as explained in this post:


This realm is also defined as "being a higher dimension" that hao has full control over

I compiled every appearance of a starry sky after Hao generates his sun:


It mostly disappears when he uses black hole, and is completely gone when he makes the black hole dissipate. If it was real, it may dictate the star he made was full size, which would boost the black hole calc migue79 made.

Given Hao say the solar prominence from his sun is thousands upon thousands of miles long, and that his supernova "can consume galaxies", this may all be believable.

His star is also depicted as this large at one point:
vc6vWZ9.jpg


Hao also notes the supernova is the final stage of his star, and calls it a giant star as it transitions to the black hole stage.
 
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Could you also find the raw where he mentions the Earth versus the universe or space depending on the translation where it shows the star in space
 

Antvasima

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So is somebody willing to apply what has been accepted here?
 

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Maybe "At least 3-A, possibly Low 2-C" then? However, without further clarifications regarding if higher dimensions are infinitely superior to lower ones in this verse, it seems unreliable to me.
 
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Maybe "At least 3-A, possibly Low 2-C" then? However, without further clarifications regarding if higher dimensions are infinitely superior to lower ones in this verse, it seems unreliable to me.
I think the higher dimension stuff was initially used by the person who made the thread to give Hao type 9 immorality.
 

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Okay. 3-A seems safest for now though, unless there is additional evidence for Low 2-C.
 
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Okay. 3-A seems safest for now though, unless there is additional evidence for Low 2-C.
I personally think we could discuss it, but it could be discussed in a different thread somewhere else since we at least came to 3-A as the conclusion.

Its probably better to apply the agreed 3-A changes and then, if desired, make a new thread to discuss potential upgrades so we can finish this thread up.
 
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id like to wait on updating anything till RIZEXX can check the two necessary raws. The supernova one would make all the calcs useless if it means "consume" literally. Would mean the characters tanked a galaxy busting explosion.

can we give him a day or 2 at least
Trying to find now but RAWS for the series are extremely hard to come by. Might resort to buying the volume raw but that’ll also take awhile. Maybe go with what’s accepted for now. Unless we put a halt on the thread until further info
 
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well i would also like the argument of hao making a cosmos and the size of his star to be checked and discussed here:


I compiled every appearance of a starry sky after Hao generates his sun:


It mostly disappears when he uses black hole, and is completely gone when he makes the black hole dissipate. If it was real, it may dictate the star he made was full size, which would boost the black hole calc migue79 made.

Given Hao say the solar prominence from his sun is thousands upon thousands of miles long, and that his supernova "can consume galaxies", this may all be believable.

His star is also depicted as this large at one point:
vc6vWZ9.jpg



Hao also notes the supernova is the final stage of his star, and calls it a giant star as it transitions to the black hole stage.
 
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Mainly really the visuals in chapter 299

Perspective is really wonky a lot of the time so sometimes it looks like it's only somewhat bigger than hao himself. In other shots it looks ginormous.

He does call it a giant star at one point
 
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so apparently shaman king marcos ( a sequel as well) elaborates on the dimensions in the verse. time to read

he has his own story yeah, taking place after the original series
I know the plot involves the Lasso family that he was adopted into
and the real archangels
the X-Laws spirits are tsukumogami, tools that gain a spirit of their own through long use and love
Luchist went into a higher space within the Great Spirit prior to the og series and stole pieces of the actual christian archangels
using those was the reason why the X-Laws tsukumogami took the shape of the angels
Luchist's grandfather uses the real Lucifer as his spirit
also apparently Lucifer created a bunch of avatars of himself to seek out certain truths in the real world. The reason why Sati is working for YVS instead of helping the good guys in Flowers and Super Star is because she found out that her guardian spirit, Dainichi Nyorai, is one of Lucifer's avatars
so that also says something about how relevant and canon Shaman King Marcos is
this is the real Lucifer, the mecha that Luchist uses is just one of the tsukumogami

350.png
 
Oh my god, you guys are still going?! I thought this was honestly closed awhile ago. I am so sry for the lack of response. College has been kicking my ass for awhile lol. I will read up on everything I missed and ill give my input probably tonight or tomorrow. Thank each and every one of you guys for helping out and even giving input. It means a lot
 
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Hey so I began rereading the manga again in my spare time and I THINK I have something that may suggest 4-D for Hao / The Shaman King / The Great Spirit.
so apparently shaman king marcos ( a sequel as well) elaborates on the dimensions in the verse. time to read
You can read this mini scan thread I posted on Imgur here.

Basically (I think Cyber may have already mentioned this a bit here before but ill explain it in more detail), in Shaman King, souls can form worlds called communes that are formed from their memories of how they lived before death, with their being countless communes (supported by Yoh saying at an earlier point in the series that the Great Spirit has countless souls that are infinitely connected) inside of the Great Spirit.

One can do things such as controlling their own fate (Fate Manipulation for Hao btw?) and even travel through time inside these planes of existence. Now onto why this could be an upgrade, since these communes confirm time travel is possible, it would imply they are timelines (since they are directly based off of the real world too), which could bump Hao and the Great Spirit up quite a bit.
 
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Also, for what its worth, Joco's master when explaining the communes gave a nod to the Many Worlds Interpretation possibly being a thing inside the Great Spirit (when he said souls don't open themselves up to possibilities, or other worlds).
 
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Hey so I began rereading the manga again in my spare time and I THINK I have something that may suggest 4-D for Hao / The Shaman King / The Great Spirit.

You can read this mini scan thread I posted on Imgur here.

Basically (I think Cyber may have already mentioned this a bit here before but ill explain it in more detail), in Shaman King, souls can form worlds called communes that are formed from their memories of how they lived before death, with their being countless communes (supported by Yoh saying at an earlier point in the series that the Great Spirit has countless souls that are infinitely connected) inside of the Great Spirit.

One can do things such as controlling their own fate (Fate Manipulation for Hao btw?) and even travel through time inside these planes of existence. Now onto why this could be an upgrade, since these communes confirm time travel is possible, it would imply they are timelines (since they are directly based off of the real world too), which could bump Hao and the Great Spirit up quite a bit.
I don’t entirely agree with some points in your interpretation of this:
The other possibilities here aren’t random events of the many worlds interpretation, but other possible beliefs, which in the GS control the world/commune you can go to.
Saying they can choose their own fate doesn’t seem to be literal fate manipulation, but that they can choose which commune they’ll end up, and how that commune develops, and therefore how their life will go forwards.

The time travel is definitely the big part imo. I could see the scan either meaning that they literally travel through time within the commune or that they can travel to communes set in/emulating different times (such as the Indio commune which is emulating the ancient past, or the commune Hana visits in Flowers that is permanently in WWII). I think this would be good for a possibly 2-B rating (and the countless communes in the GS would make its 3-A rating much higher than baseline)
 
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I don’t entirely agree with some points in your interpretation of this:
The other possibilities here aren’t random events of the many worlds interpretation, but other possible beliefs, which in the GS control the world/commune you can go to.
Saying they can choose their own fate doesn’t seem to be literal fate manipulation, but that they can choose which commune they’ll end up, and how that commune develops, and therefore how their life will go forwards.
As far as the MWI aspect of this goes for my comment, I did only say that its a nod from Joco's master, and not something too too explicit in that regard, but since a soul's memory or beliefs can create worlds based off those memories and beliefs inside the GS, it would in some effect be replicating the MWI.

However, the fate manipulation aspect of this I suggested isn't based off which commune one goes to, but because of Joco's master stating that everything inside the Great Spirit is determined by the state of your soul, which really should only just go for Hao (since the Shaman King unites with the GS).
The time travel is definitely the big part imo. I could see the scan either meaning that they literally travel through time within the commune or that they can travel to communes set in/emulating different times (such as the Indio commune which is emulating the ancient past, or the commune Hana visits in Flowers that is permanently in WWII). I think this would be good for a possibly 2-B rating (and the countless communes in the GS would make its 3-A rating much higher than baseline)
Id be good with this honestly.
 
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Can somebody summarise the current relevant arguments and information into a single post, so I can ask for staff help with evaluating it?
Okay so the run down is that I may have something better than 3-A for Hao to be rated by instead if it checks out. Here are the details.

In Shaman King, souls can form worlds called communes that are formed from their beliefs and memories of how they lived before death. These said worlds exist inside of the Great Spirit itself, and there are at least countless amounts of these communes inside of the Great Spirit. The number of worlds being vast is supported by Yoh once saying that the Great Spirit has countless souls that are infinitely connected inside of itself.

These communes are also implied to be their own timelines since:

-They're directly based off of the real world
-Time travel is confirmed possible to perform inside of these worlds

You can read this mini scan thread I posted on Imgur here.

If this checks out, this would put 2-B as a possibility for Hao, the Great Spirit and whoever would scale.
 
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There’s this thing from Anna where she claims there’s a 137 hells though I’m certain it’s mentioned everyone gets there own afterlife based off memories and soul. Regardless wouldn’t all these hells and afterlife’s exist also within the great spirit

 
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There’s this thing from Anna where she claims there’s a 137 hells though I’m certain it’s mentioned everyone gets there own afterlife based off memories and soul. Regardless wouldn’t all these hells and afterlife’s exist also within the great spirit

Considering the very first commune Jaco found himself inside after dying was a place he thought was hell, id say that strongly implies this also falls under that as well.
 
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ehhhhh

is there enough proof each commune is low 2-c?
Well from what the scans themselves gave, here are the details:

-Time travel is possible inside of the communes and one can go anywhere, implying a commune is a timeline

-The communes are directly based off of the real world since they're formed by the beliefs and memories of the soul (the Indio commune and hell Jaco was in being explicit examples of this)

-These communes demonstrate at least cosmic sizes (the hell commune Jaco and his master were in had outer space and stars depicted inside it, and since the communes are based off the real world too, having a cosmic size should safely indicate the commune can become what the real world is, a universe)

-The communes are directly called a plane of existence too.
 

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Okay so the run down is that I may have something better than 3-A for Hao to be rated by instead if it checks out. Here are the details.

In Shaman King, souls can form worlds called communes that are formed from their beliefs and memories of how they lived before death. These said worlds exist inside of the Great Spirit itself, and there are at least countless amounts of these communes inside of the Great Spirit. The number of worlds being vast is supported by Yoh once saying that the Great Spirit has countless souls that are infinitely connected inside of itself.

These communes are also implied to be their own timelines since:

-They're directly based off of the real world
-Time travel is confirmed possible to perform inside of these worlds

You can read this mini scan thread I posted on Imgur here.

If this checks out, this would put 2-B as a possibility for Hao, the Great Spirit and whoever would scale.
@Ultima_Reality @Agnaa @Ovy7 @Ionliosite @First_Witch @Elizhaa @KingPin0422

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?
 
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Been a while (a really long while), since I've tackled anything about Shaman King. I don't remember those scans in the original manga, so I guess they are from the sequels (which I haven't read), but what it's in there and what Kukui says seems to make sense IMO, so maybe 2-B could be a possibility.
 
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Been a while (a really long while), since I've tackled anything about Shaman King. I don't remember those scans in the original manga, so I guess they are from the sequels (which I haven't read), but what it's in there and what Kukui says seems to make sense IMO, so maybe 2-B could be a possibility.
Yeah SK's manga is continued in sequels and such (thankfully!)
 
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