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Sasuke Vs Killua

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How good is Sasuke's illusion creation by this point? Also, speed should be equalized for this not to be a speedblitz, so I'll talk basing myself on speed being equalized.

Anyways, Sasuke's precog and Killua's instinctive reaction make them similarly matched, however we should note that while Sasuke has maxed out his statistics by entering the second level of the Cursed Seal, Killua's can still grow, that's because Kanmaru has two "levels" in which the one where he programs himself to automatically react to a stimulus is not only as agile as some sort of Ultra Instinct, but it's also shown and implied to be much faster.

Besides, Killua's control of his body is automatic, either being directly consciously controlled or automatically reacting to stimulus and bypassing his brain. This means it is probable that he will be able to bypass Sasuke's precog which is based on minimal muscular tensions, as his movements are quick and sudden.

Because Nen and Chakra work differently, it is possible that Sasuke will be unable to mimic Kanmaru. I also don't know if Narutoverse even has techniques as elaborate with electricity as Kanmaru, which might make it impossible to see it. Also, it is not guaranteed that Sharingan will be able to see Nen, and even if it does, it should not be able to detect In.

While Sasuke can spam long ranged attacks, Killua is no stranger to floods of attacks and is capable of dodging them, especially when we're using Kanmaru whose efficiency approaches Ultra Instinct when maxed out.

Also, while Sasuke is cunning, literally all of Killua's opponents were so, too, and yet he violently outsmarted them. Killua also has a range on the hundreds of meters against tens from Sasuke, has several times greater lifting strength, has yo-yos that cover medium range, melee with short-range hatsu for short range and nen techniques which cover the aforementioned range, making him a master of this advantage.

Oh, and how does that resistance to illusions work? Because maybe Killua can do something with his Rhythm Echo or not. Anyways, Killua is more stealthy, so he attacks first and attacks to kill. He takes this one.
 
What about using post-chunnin exams Sasuke up to the first level of the Cursed Seal, versus Killua after mastering Nen? Both can use their stat amps to go higher, but not above 8-A. Killua shouldn't be too high into 8-A through Kanmaru since it's basically there via powerscaling, so it should fit.~

Not to mention Kanmaru has a time limit while Sasuke is always got a lot of stamina no matter what, so it's not like Kanmaru can make this a stomp, at best a decisive win by being used to quickly overwhelm and assassinate.

EDIT: We can even make this a two-rounds battle: one with pre-update CM2 Sasuke vs Kanmaru Killua, the other one with post-update Sasuke from after the chunnin exam with up to CM1, versus Killua after he mastered Nen (Kanmaru included as a stat amp, but weaknesses taken into account).
 
Bump.

Also, where's the Content Revision thread with that Sasuke Upgrade stuff?~ Or blog, w/e.

BTW, OP, take a look at my suggestion.
 
First verse equalization takes care of all that stuff dealing with nen not being seen and Sasuke would most likely be able to copy since he has a lightning style nature and Ging can copy nen abilities just like sasuke. Also Killua's ability to react automatically to things is nothing but reaction speed and here speed is equal, if it wasnt Sasuke would most likely blitz. Sasuke can also stop Killua with threads that can be used from mid range and combine it with fire style jutsu. Im giving this to Sasuke because of limited flight ability with wings, and his pre cog with sharingan and verse equalization also handles the problem with nen possibly allowing Sasuke to mimic Godspeed
 
No, capacity to react automatically to things is not the same as reaction speed. It is instinctive reaction, an ability which is listed as one of Killua's powers. Reaction being equal did never prevent things such as instinctive reactions, statistics amplifications and better uses of one's combat speed and reactions to take place. By bypassing Sasuke's precog and being stealthy, Killua can assassinate him in one blow.

You did not take into account the fact that Killua, as an assassin, might likely go for the kill and that his stealth abilities will allow him to be the first to attack. Verse equalization or not, you need to get us examples of complex chakra skills allowing for an effect anywhere similar to Kanmaru so that Kanmaru can become reproducible through chakra and then you need to have evidence that sharingan can copy that technique (it isn't an absolute power copier) or else it's NLF.

His precog with sharingan is useless, utterly useless against Kanmaru. I'd like to have you develop on that argument about threads.

Verse equalization does not necessarily make nen visible: Sasuke will have to use sharingan in order to see nen, and even then In can be used to hide it. The fact verse equalization allows a verse's mechanics to function with and overlap with other does not send a verse's attributes to the trash bin, just allows them to be broken by abilities that are also verse-specific.

So, basically, nearly everything you said is vain and fails to counter any argument of mine.
 
I think you need to go look at the disadvantges of Instinctive reaction on this wiki. It says if the opponent has precog or is faster than it can be overcame. So no his precog isnt useless and also this sasuke is ruthless and will go for the kill just like Killua and Sasuke can use subsitution jutsu also. Also sasuke in CM2 always has his sharingan active and has limited flight with it. Kakashi sharingan has copied water style jutsus from the 2nd hokage and Sasuke can even copy fighting styles. Sasuke is also a ninja, they are trained to be stealthy.
 
Did you even read my first comment thoroughly? Instinctive Reaction is not the reason why precog is useless, but alongside with stat amps it's the reason why Killua shall have the upper hand in terms of attributes even if speed is equalized and the tiers are similar.

The reason why precog is useless is because Killua, during Kanmaru, is bypassing his brain and directly controlling his muscles with electricity. His movements are sudden, rapid and brief, use as much potential as he needs to, and because of that Sharingan's precog which is based on the initial muscular tensions that come prior to an attack shall not be able to foretell Killua's movements. That's the reason why his foresight is useless. Instinctive Reaction capitalizes on that, and so does stat amping, putting Sasuke under significant disadvantage. If it were IR alone, then Killua and Sasuke would merely be in a similar level.

The substitution jutsu cannot be used under insane situations like actually being sleeping or when defenseless: if Sasuke is suddenly attacked by a Killua who puts him in range while in Zetsu and attacks with In when he's unaware, Sasuke won't be able to use substitution at all, but just take the hit and die from it, since it's in character for Killua to go for the kill against his enemies when he can. Sasuke also wanting to do that just balances this if they get into a direct confrontation.

Kakashi having copied water jutsus only means he can use water. Sasuke copying fighting styles only means he can move his body. That's standard stuff, which doesn't mean a complex skill about precise control of electricity on one's body will be copiable through chakra. Assuming he can just because he has a copy ability is NLF, and that fallacy is even worse when said copy ability has shown limits before.

Limited flight is not something Killua cannot overcome, especially when Killua's range is much bigger and that's the range the fight starts from: just to be able to attack Killua, Sasuke will have to cross a distance Killua will stealthly attack from at the beginning and will repeatedly try to kill him from. Sasuke is useless if he can't hit Killua, and flight is not going to change that when ranged attacks are a thing.

Ninjas in Naruto are indeed trained to be stealthy, but how many abilities does Sasuke have about doing just that and how many times has him been shown capitalizing on those skills against enemies? Killua attacks stealthily whenever he can: he even used that alongside with Whirlwind to deal significant damage to Youpi who was insanely stronger than him. He is an assassin even more than he is a fighter, and has multiple abilities (Zetsu, In, Shadow Steps, Rhythm Echo, claws, grasping heart) which are stealth or assassination abilities.

Do I need to say something else? Oh, yes, I do: Sasuke may be cunning, but Killua is so cunning he has completely overshadowed also cunning opponents in the past, being gifted as a Hunter when hunters themselves are gifted at cunning and fighting abilities. Killua is smarter, and when that's on top of every last small advantage he has, Sasuke is fodder.
 
wait do you even understand what youre saying?? Does Killua even have instinctive reactions?? Yes thats what his Godspeed ability whirlwind is if you didnt know. What your saying falls under instinctive reactions.

The jutsu that kakashi copied are high class jutsu that take great chakra control as only a couple ninja have ever shown the ability to use them. Sasuke has chakra control if you didnt know. If he didnt he wouldnt be able to use chidori or phonix fire jutsu. We dont even know where the battle is taking place, for all we know this fight could be in the middle of a areana or on building. We dont even know if Killua would even be able to use his stealth skills. Also there wasnt a range given from where the fight starts from so dont assume things for Killua. Sasukes has stronger long range attacks also. Also sasuke would most likely see throught Killua's rhythm echo with his sharingan since he can see the energy inside him.
 
Did you even read Killua's page? Let me show his powers to you.

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Resistance to Electricity Manipulation and Poison Manipulation, Claw Creation and Retractio, Afterimage Creation, Limited Illusion Creation (Via Rhythm Echo), Chi Manipulation (Capable of using Nen), Electricity Manipulation (Can create sparks of electricity, launch massive thunderbolts, and can augment his physical prowess by sending electric signals directly through his body, bypassing his nerves), Can proficiently use a pair of extremely heavy Yo-Yos as weapons, Skilled Hand-to-Hand Combatant, Immense Pain Tolerance, Can Paralyze his opponents, Instinctive Reaction via Whirlwind

  • Godspeed (Kanmaru): With his hair, hands and feet changed into electric type aura, Killua's Kanmuru ability allows him to react and move his body at speeds that would normally be impossible (even in Hunter ├ù Hunter universe). This ability changes Killua's aura into a field capable of transmitting all electrical impulses from his brain in a straight line directly to the part of the body he wants to use, completely bypassing his nervous system. It is made up of two parts: Speed of Lightning, the ability to move his body according to his own will, used to travel long distances at high speed, and Whirlwind, the ability to sense his opponents movements and have his body react automatically, which he uses to evade enemy attacks with flawless speed and timing. Kanmuru can only be used for a short amount of time before needing to be recharged.
Does it make sense to you now? This ability transmits electrical impulses directly to the parts of the body he wants to control. With what I said before, that's why he bypasses sharingan's precog. Can you read it now? Am I the one who doesn't know what they're talking about? I don't think so.

We do know where the battle is taking place. Am I the one who doesn't know what they're talking about when you're debating without having read the Standard Battle Assumptions? I don't think so. It's the Central Park, a wide area which takes 8-A to Low 7-C AP to fully destroy, with trees, fields, etc (I've never been there, so I'm speaking from Google Images). There is a lot of room for being stealthy there. I promise you I know at least better than you what is being talked about here.

Sasuke has chakra control? And so what? You gave absolutely zero evidence that he can copy a technique with the properties of Kanmaru. Why? Because you have no evidence it is possible to create such a technique that electrically controls one's body with chakra and even less that it can be copied. You're just extrapolating things from Sasuke being able to copy "a lot of stuff and learn a lot of stuff" in Naruto to him being able to copy any skill you want him to, which is why I call it No Limits Fallacy. Don't make me have to ask if you know what that means.

Killua would be able to use his stealth because it is possible to use his stealth in this place — am I really the one who doesn't know what they're talking about? — If he can, he will, and that gives him the first attack. Sasuke's precog doesn't do shit if he cannot see his opponent coming, so he dies there. Am I the one who doesn't know what they're talking about? If the battle does proceed, Killua has several small advantages that stack up on top of each other to allow him to win, in case you haven't noticed.

Sasuke may have stronger long range attack, but he cannot use them if Killua is not in range, and Killua's range is larger. meaning his attacks are of little use despite their strength. Had you forgotten that, or were you ignorant of it?

Sasuke will not see through Killua's Rhythm Echo, and that's because Killua has already fought people who were proficient at seeing aura (he had trained to use Gyo at pretty much all times and his opponents were at such a similar level) and yet they failed to guess the real Killua out of the clones. Overall, the Rhythm echo is a technique that can fool pretty much anyone who faces it, and the series is definitely not lacking in characters capable of no-selling abilities to hide stuff, confuse or outsmart people. Did you not know what you were talking about?

Am I the one who doesn't know what they're talking about? Really?
 
you did see where it said instinctive reactions with whirlwind right?? I dont think so.

Killuas godspeed uses lightning which Sasukes uses so yes it shares the same properties as Sasukes powers. Also there is already people in the naruto verse who can use lightning on their body just likely killua but they just didnt use it for instinctive reactions. So yes if sasuke ever wanted to copy it he could have a long time ago. Also im a huge HXH so show me where someone has used Gyo while trying to see throught Killua's rhythm echo please. Also with sharingan you cant hide energy since it looks through the body since its X-ray vision. Gyo and sharingan are totally different if you didnt know. Gyo doesnt allow you to see through the body it just helps you see nen.

Lol matter of fact i just remembered sasuke can increase his speed so yeah he can use shunsin to move faster. Killua cant do that since he is in Godspeed already and doesnt know about that ability of Sasuke. Also you do understand everything has a speed when reacting use the impulses from a stimulus outside the brain right??? His page lliterally said he has instinctive reaction due to whirlwind, which means it can be overcame with precog.
 
"you did see where it said instinctive reactions with whirlwind right?? I dont think so. "

That's not the only thing Whirlwind does. It has instinctive reactions... but also more than that! Also, not all Instinctive Reaction powers are born equal! This wiki just sets up some standards and patterns, what its page on IR says is not how a power will be presented in every last work of fiction. In Killua's case, it has, besides IR, additional properties which counter some forms of precog. What part of that can't you understand?

"Killuas godspeed uses lightning which Sasukes uses so yes it shares the same properties as Sasukes powers."

How many times will I have to repeat? Narutoverse has not a single jutsu with the same kind of effects as Godspeed! Just because it's all Lightning doesn't mean any lightning user can copy it. That's NLF.

"Also there is already people in the naruto verse who can use lightning on their body just likely killua but they just didnt use it for instinctive reactions."

Now we're talking! Show one of these skills with sharingan could copy and show me its effects. Could it be used to control one's body?

"Also im a huge HXH so show me where someone has used Gyo while trying to see throught Killua's rhythm echo please."

By Greed Island arc, Killua and Gon get trained on using Gyo at all times and it's implied that's needed to have a chance against their enemies. Killua uses Rhythm Echo against one of the Bombers, they try to guess the real clone and Killua says "Got it wrong!" before hitting him with an attack. If anything, it's easier for me to ask you for evidence that he was using any In right there, since aura can be seen with the naked eyes of a Hunter!

"Also with sharingan you cant hide energy since it looks through the body since its X-ray vision."

This completely ignores how In works. It does not hide the aura anywhere, just conceals it so that something like Gyo is needed to see it. And even then, there's no reason to believe that would totally see through Rhythm Echo and even then, that's not my main point and Killua doesn't specifically need RE to defeat Sasuke. Nearly everything he has is superior to Sasuke.

"Gyo and sharingan are totally different if you didnt know. Gyo doesnt allow you to see through the body it just helps you see nen."

Actually, Gyo is equated to straining your vision when Killua and Gon try explaining it to Leorio, so it has some degree of Enhanced Senses in it. And that remains not being my main point on to why Killua can beat Sasuke: you'd need to rebuke everything, even the part where Killua attacks first and kills him.

"i just remembered sasuke can increase his speed so yeah he can use shunsin to move faster. Killua cant do that since he is in Godspeed already and doesnt know about that ability of Sasuke"

Killua's Godspeed is more than just IR. It's also Stats Amplification, like I've showed it to you. Whirlwind and Denkou Sekka are different levels of Godspeed, with the former having instinctive reactions and being so nimbler it is shown blitzing opponents Killua still couldn't face with basic Denkou Sekka alone. This fight requires Killua to have Godspeed active when the battle starts, it doesn't require him to be at its peak, which means Killua can amp himself up and surpass Sasuke's dash... and that dash is a short burst buff, while Killua can stay in a similarly fast state for much longer than a heartbeat to say the least.

"Also you do understand everything has a speed when reacting use the impulses from a stimulus outside the brain right???"

Inintelligibly unreadable text here.

"His page lliterally said he has instinctive reaction due to whirlwind, which means it can be overcame with precog."

The fact he has IR doesn't automatically give him a weakness. It gives him a strength that may come with a weakness. Killua does not have that weakness, period, I already explained why, quit talking like he has without directly addressing my point on why he doesn't!

I'd like to ask of OP to disconsider AstralKing7's vote. He is ignoring several of my points and seems to be extremely biased.

Also, I'd really like a third person's input to this discussion, since we alone can't get the seven votes needed to make anyone win and I don't know how to get people to comment here.
 
Sorry if the grammar sucks.

Killua's advantages:

- Smarter, capable of outsmart Sasuke.

- Better range in CQC and long range battles with his yo-yos and Nen attacks.

- Instinctive reaction.

- Resistance to electricity manipulation.

- Pain tolerance.

- Versatility via Nen.

Killua's Weaknesses:

- Kanmaru time limit.

Sasuke's advantages:

- Better equipment (strings, kunai, shuriken, explosive tags, etc).

- Some defensive abilities like Kawarimi and Henge.

- Probably better CQC skills.

- Copy abilities.

- Pre-cog.

Sasuke's weaknesses:

- Overconfident.

I think Killua got this with mid-diff. Many abilities he has are capable of take Sasuke.

Yeah, if the fight goes by CQC Killua'll have Sasuke dodging his yo-yos making Sasuke unable to give a good hit on Killua at short range. The electricity resistance Killua make the Chidori weaker. At long range, Killua can throw thunderbolts from far away than Sasuke can throw Fire Jutsu.

Even with the ninja's tool Sasuke wouldn't get so many chances of taking Killua offguard. He is more clever and could know what Sasuke'll do in the next step. If we take Whirlwind the thing goes worst for Sasuke since he can't get close enough.

Why Naruto and other ninjas hurted him despite the Sharingan pre-cog? Maybe that will be useful to say if it's something useful for Sasuke.

Anyway, going with Killua mid-diff.
 
Killua: 5 (Calaca Vs, ZackMoon1234, Oloserian, Mr. Common Sense and Mand21)

Sasuke: 1 (AstralKing7)

I also agree with you, Calaca, btw. Killua won't be totally fodderizing Sasuke or anything, but he has a counter for everything Sasuke has in store and is smarter.
 
Nice. XD

Killua: 6 (ShrekAlmighty, Calaca Vs, ZackMoon1234, Oloserian, Mr. Common Sense and Mand21)

Sasuke: 1 (AstralKing7)

One vote left for Grace to begin! :3
 
Not only does Grace begin, it's halfway through!

Killua — 7 (Parkjammer, ShrekAlmighty, Calaca Vs, ZackMoon1234, Oloserian, Mr. Common Sense and Mand21)

Sasuke — 1 (AstralKing7)
 
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