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sans.

I've found two mistakes in the "Sans" bio.

Firstly, "Karmic Retribution". Sans is never said anywhere in the game or by the creators to have Karmic Retribution. He has an attack that deals dammage over time once he's delt you one dammage with any of his bone attacks or hit with one of his gaster blasters, but the power of that isn't determined by the 'Sins' or whatever of the person he's fighting. I don't even know where someone might get that. The fact that the only fight sans has in the game is with somone who is really evil, and the dialog like 'You feel your sins crawling on your back' and such are irrelecant. The reason Sans is so powerful in his fight is because he used his intelegance to abuse the loopholes of the game to great effect, spamming one damage attacks because he knows it won't trigger your temp invinciblity, and using basicly a gag to create the most indomitable defense of any other character in the game, easily. He turned being the weakest enemy stat wise into being the final boss using his intelegence, without having to work hard to do it. But I'm getting off track.

Actually, now that I think about it, the one way Sans does have karmic retribution type powers is that he can sense how many people you've killed and how much EXP and LV you have.

Secondly, "Sans supposedly only has one hp, which would make him extremely fragile". This is a very common mistake. Sans doesn't have one HP. If you "Check" in his boss battle, it will say that he is "The easyist enemy, can only deals one damage. 1 Atk, 1 Def". Nowhere does that say he has one HP. Yes, he can only deal one damage, but it doesn't say anywhere that carrys over to his defense. And yes, he has a 1 Defense stat, but you know who has a lower defense stat then Sans? Undyne has a 7 Atk and a 0 Def. I'm sure there are more, but I'm too lazy to look it up. And before you point out that he died in one hit, he was takeing hundreds thousands of damage from that one hit, and remember that everyone else in the game besides one person also died in one hit from Chara as well.


I'd go change it myself, but when I change stuff in bios, it's normally changed back within a few minutes. Bassicly change Karmic Retribution and remove the bit about one health, just setting Durability to "Unknown".
 
I am unable to implement such things, as the profile is locked.

Also, one other thing I noticed? His main profile picture at the top should be changed. All of the other profiles just have their normal sprite at the top, yet Sans's is in the gallery, and instead his profile picture is of him with the glowing eye. It looks rather blurry, too, admittedly.

http://orig11.deviantart.net/1723/f/2015/317/c/9/sans_sprite_by_blazerhalo-d9gko9s.png

Here's a link to his other sprite, btw.
 
The sin thing is determined by what is said when you get hit "You felt your sins crawling on your back", plus the name being "Karmic Retribution", which links to the concept of karma.

Sans has 1 HP in the game's files, 1 DEF is just an addition to his natural defenses, which we cannot determine, especially when he has only 1 HP.
 
The Everlasting said:
The sin thing is determined by what is said when you get hit "You felt your sins crawling on your back", plus the name being "Karmic Retribution", which links to the concept of karma.
Sans has 1 HP in the game's files, 1 DEF is just an addition to his natural defenses, which we cannot determine, especially when he has only 1 HP.
So we are baseing it on a name?

Welp, Large Star Level First Form Freiza confirmed :)
 
The Everlasting said:
The sin thing is determined by what is said when you get hit "You felt your sins crawling on your back", plus the name being "Karmic Retribution", which links to the concept of karma.
Sans has 1 HP in the game's files, 1 DEF is just an addition to his natural defenses, which we cannot determine, especially when he has only 1 HP.
"You felt your sins crawling on your back" happens even if you don't take any damage in the entire fight. It has no connection to his attacks and is purrely situational. If you don't believe me, go try the fight for yourself or watch a no-hit run. I've yet to see anywhere in the game where any of his attacks are dirrectly named "Karmic Retribuiton".

It's possible that Sans does have 1 HP in the game files, but that's purely a programing thing which shoulden't really be considered, especially sense most genocide run fights have characters who normally have loads of HP have negetive thousands of defense and only 1 HP. From what I've seen, we stat scale off of DEF and ATK to determine someone's strength if they don't have any feats for undertale, hence why Undyne and other characters are city level by stat scaleing off of tsunderplane. But if we really are going off of things burried in the code of the game, I'd like to see some proof that Sans has only 1 HP in code.
 
The Everlasting said:
You missed the "You felt your sins crawling on your back" part.
Huh?
"You felt your sins crawling on your back" How does that indictate anything? If it said "You felt the pain of your sins crawling on your back" it would make more sense, but it doesn't. If anything that sounds more like Frisk trying to break free of Chara, realizing whats going on or something. How about the part where the tenchique is described to deal more damage when confronting someone with more sins? You can't even explain that part, unless I missed something. (Srry haven't played Genocide run for a while)

EDIT: It says that when you don't take damage @Dex? That puts another hole in the arguement
 
I think what he means is that there's no proof that the potency of Karmic Retribution is tied directly to how evil/sinful/violent someone is, not that it isn't called that.
 
WarriorWare said:
The letters "KR" are right next to "HP" after he hits you.
And? How does that equate to more damage for more sins?

Or what if its more like a poison to begin with?
 
ThePerpetual said:
I think what he means is that there's no proof that the potency of Karmic Retribution is tied directly to how evil/sinful/violent someone is, not that it isn't called that.
Isn't that why Sans doesn't fight Frisk until their LOVE has reached 20? You'd think he'd go for it the moment he figures out that Frisk murdered Toriel.
 
The screen literally says KR on it as soon as one of sans' attacks lands, additionally there is text in the sans fight that says "KARMA coursing through your veins." (sorry couldn't find any pictures and many sites say it is unused text) it's clear that karma is something very much at play here and the nature of what you have to do to fight sans drives the point home even more. it is however unclear what the KR adds, if it is just the poisen effect or if the invincibility piercing counts as well. additionally During the pacifist Asriel fight the sans and papyrus attacks have no added effect (although it could be that sans just isn't attacking for some reason)
 
Squid peanut said:
The screen literally says KR on it as soon as one of sans' attacks lands, additionally there is text in the sans fight that says "KARMA coursing through your veins." (sorry couldn't find any pictures and many sites say it is unused text) it's clear that karma is something very much at play here and the nature of what you have to do to fight sans drives the point home even more. it is however unclear what the KR adds, if it is just the poisen effect or if the invincibility piercing counts as well. additionally During the pacifist Asriel fight the sans and papyrus attacks have no added effect (although it could be that sans just isn't attacking for some reason)
From what you said, it does sound like a posion, the fact that sans attacks dont have an added affect on Asriel suggests that it may not be based on sins. (Also why wouldn't he attack,? considering that he did attack Chara)
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Asirel doesn't fights Sans tho...? It's Frisk who fights a brainwashed Sans
Ah I see, as long as Frisk doesn't get damaged from Sans I guess that makes sense

Still the other points remain
 
"Isn't that why Sans doesn't fight Frisk until their LOVE has reached 20? You'd think he'd go for it the moment he figures out that Frisk murdered Toriel."

No, he fights you if you've literally killed everything there is to kill in the whole underground. You get to LOVE 20 by beating him, before then it's 19.

He doesn't go for you for, well, a number of reasons, many of which are still interpretable. The one solid, concrete one we know is that he in fact promised Toriel that he wouldn't kill any humans.

It's also commonly speculated that his immense laziness is a good reason for this. After all, if he can't be bothered to fight, then, well, yeah.

There's also his seeming signs of fatalism and possibly even depression that some people like to argue, hinted at in some of his fight dialogue, due to the fact that he knows what he does is just going to be reset.

Also, Sans simply caring about the player/Frisk is an interesting theory, given that he seems to detest violence and talks to you about self-reflectance and trying to be honest with yourself plue trying to sway your path. (You can do better) (what can I say that will change the mind of a being like you...?) I mean, he's willing to put aside you murdering his brother and/or Toriel even though he rather obviously knows about it.

I dunno, Sans is a complicated character. It's hard to get a hold of how he's feeling inside usually because most of the time he just jokes about.
 
Well I mean, if Chara would have gone past him, all the Universes would be gone, so no reset would bring anyone back, giving one GOOD reason for Sans to act.

And given that Pacifist Frisk didn't kill anyone at all, KR probably didn't activate.
 
Well, again, the promise he made, that fact that no matters how much people are killed, reset will happen, lazyness etc.

Also, it could be that the more you kill, the more chances he has of winning (Due to KR) but yeah.
 
If sans' power is not linked to the blood on the opponent's hands then that doesn't make sence and would be beyond what a monster should be capable of. we know that sans' teleporting is because he has a piece of gaster, and given the character he seems to be more based on tricks, technique, and skill then actual power. the bottom line is that sans was able to go toe to toe with a determined Chara possessed Frisk, stronger than what UtU fought, and killed them a large number of times, this either makes sans a casual 2-C in base form or that he was cheeting the system and abusing some method that would be harmful to Frisk/Chara, there is then the previous evidence to support that the trick is probably based on Karma.
 
Sans being a piece of Gaster is just speculation tho, it's more likely to be all part of his knowledge of timelines and scientific background.

Especially since anything related to Gaster just stopped existing.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
KR is literally like soul poison. There's a reason KR appears next to your HP only during his battle and only when he hits you.
Yes I can see that, but is there anything that supports that greater sins = greater damage?
 
SomebodyData said:
Yes I can see that, but is there anything that supports that greater sins = greater damage?
There is no greater damage. It's always 1. Greater sins = faster damage. Unless you mean the stacking damage.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
There is no greater damage. It's always 1. Greater sins = faster damage. Unless you mean the stacking damage.
ooh my mistake, then how about greater sins = faster damage?
 
Yes. The fact he only confronts Chara (and Flowey in an alternate timeline) after they've gathered a significant amount of LV, the nature of karma, in battle text, etc.
 
Sans doesn't attack Frisk during the nuetral run because he made a promis to Toriel to protect Frisk and because he knows all his actions and memories will be reset in a matter of hours to minutes, so any action he could take and all knolledge gained has no meaning what-so-ever. He only attacks after you at the very end of genoice when he can't possibly stand by anymore, after you've killed litterally everyone in the underground except the king and flowey and he knows you're going to kill everyone on earth. But even then, he still doesn't care. "I just can't afford to care knowing what happens next" - Sans during the final boss battle of the game.

The KR next to your HP is bassicly soul poison. I don't really think it's connected to how much LV you have, and even if it was it wouldn't have any actual impact on his other attacks, just the poison.

Sans doesn't do any damage to pacafist frisk when he's fighting a brainwashed Sans is because he's not attacking, only Papyrus is. Some of San's dialog is stuff like 'Just give up, I did a long time ago". Also, see the first reason I gave.

Gaster is barrely even cannon, sans having a part of him in him or whatever is major speculation with no base behind it except the name of a gpj file.
 
His dialogue is, "seeing what comes next...i can't afford not to care, anymore", which is the exact opposite of that, actually.

Yes, it's soul poison, but that's how Karma works. I see no reason to assume Karmic Retribution would not rely on Karma, as it doesn't make sense in the context of the fight that Sans would do equal damage to someone with absolutely no sin count.

"if ya keep going the way you are now, you're gonna have a bad time."

"You felt your sins crawling on your back."

etc.

Sans' dialogue, like everyone else's in the fight, is used to show their inner fears and concerns. Sans' reflects his feeling towards his own life's futility. It doesn't mean he's not attacking, as literally everyone else is.

Check the update. Gaster is completely canon.
 
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